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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: barrierexpress on Saturday 02 April 16 06:51 BST (UK)
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James & Margaret are the parents of Margaret Nicol (nee Sloan).She was born on March 11 1833 in Stair Ayrshire,Scotland, and died Sept 2 1915.
I am having great difficulty finding any details on either of her parents James & Ann. I think James may have been born around 1812, but can find nothing about either of them.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
David
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Hi
Are you querying
James & Margaret Sloan as per the first line of your post
OR
James & Ann Sloan as per the second time you mention parents on line 3?
Ray
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Was mother Margaret a typo?
Is this Margaret and parents in 1851 living in Glasgow??
James Sloan 48 Joiner b Stair, Ayrshire
Ann Sloan 47 b Stair
Margaret Sloan 18 b Stair
Ann Sloan 15 b Stair
John Sloan 11 b Stair
William A Sloan 8 b Glasgow
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The family appears to have moved to Glasgow before 1841 and can be found on Freecen in both 1841 ( Grove Street) and 1851 (Burnside Street) and on Ancestry in 1861 (Burnside Street). Nb Ann is described as Mrs James Sloan on some of the census returns. Both James and Ann were born in Stair around 1803/1804 respectively. James appears to have died between 1861 and 1871 and Ann is living with her youngest son William A ( born 1843 in Glasgow) in 1871 at 117 New City Road, Blytheswood,Glasgow. William is a Teacher. In 1881 Ann is living with William A who is now living at Burnaw Cottage, South Knapdale, Argyll, an unemployed Teacher. In 1891 William A is lodging in Strathaven, Lanarkshire, described as a Dealer,Journalist,designer. No sign of his mother Ann. Assume she may have died but can't find an obvious death on Scotlandspeople.
Isobel
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This looks like the family in 1851 & 1861:
CENSUS 1851 At: 45 Burnside Street, St George Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/1, ED13, Page 19
(already posted)
CENSUS 1861 At: 26 Burnside Street, St George Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 51, Page 3
Head: James SLOAN 58, Joiner, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1803)
Wife: Mrs James 57, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1804)
Dau: Margaret SLOAN 28, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1833)
Dau: Ann SLOAN 25, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1836)
Son: John SLOAN 21, Teacher Of Mathematical?, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1840)
Son: William W SLOAN 18, Student, b Glasgow (abt 1843)
BIRTHS to James SLOAN and Ann HENDERSON, from Family Search
Margaret SLOAN 1833
Ann SLOAN 1835
James SLOAN 1837
John SLOAN 1839
Provided they died in Scotland, the death certs of James SLOAN snr and wife Ann, should confirm they are the right people, and hopefully take you back a generation if their parents' names are on the death certs.
Cheers
AMBLY
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[Good spot Kay]
Just in case related . . . . .
There is a John Sloan 35 Tea Dealer, born Scotland.
in S.Molton, Devon with a Margaret Sloan.
Others in household are 2x children surnamed Ireland.
1841 HO 107 / 235 / 7 / 15 / page24
East Street, S.Molton, Devon
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Many thanks to Ray,Kay99,isobelw and Ambly which has been a great help.The John Sloan in Devon is not connected.
I wonder if you could now help me find John Sloan`s parents.
I`m not sure if his father was John or James, but his wife`s maiden name must have been Bisset. Why you may ask?
Well ,Margaret-James and Ann`s daughter married John Nicol, and one of their daughters was named Margaret Bisset Nicol.
Thanks again,
David
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Possible, that Ann SLOAN nee HENDERSON went down to England with her married daughter Ann, and where her bachelor son John, a teacher, settled.
CENSUS 1901: in Ealing, London
Address: Ealing Grammar School
Teacher John SLOAN, 61, Bachelor, Assistant Schoolmaster, b Ayr Soctland
CENSUS 1891, in Hackney, London:
Address: 69 The Paragon,
RG12 - Piece 195 / Folio 112 / Page 6
Head: James M FLEMING 53, Journalist & Author,
Wife: Annie S FLEMING 55,
Son: James S FLEMING 24, unm, Clerk (Engineering & Patent Agents)
Dau: Ann M FLEMING 22,
Son: William D FLEMING 20, Clerk (Mercantile)
Son: John A FLEMING 16?
Brother-in-Law: John SLOAN, 51, single, Teacher & Mathematical,
All Born Scotland
FAMILY SEARCH : WITH PARENTS: James FLEMING & Anne SLOAN:
BIRTH: Annie Murray FLEMING 1868, Blythswood, Glasgow
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQZ3-79J
BIRTH: William Daniel FLEMING 1870, Tradeston Glasgow
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQX-T7Z
BIRTH : Margaret Elizabeth Henderson FLEMING, 1872, Tradeston Glasgow
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ6Q-D6F
BIRTH: John Andrew FLEMING 1874, Milton, Glasgow
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQ6-K3F
The FLEMINGS are in South Hackney in 1881 - James & Ann and their 4 children:
Address: 29 Frampton Park Rd
RG11/ Piece 314/ Folio 60/ Pg 17
This may be the Death of mother Ann, nee HENDERSON:
DEATH 1886:
Anne SLOAN age 86
Registered Hackney , Dec Qtr 1886 - Vol 1b, page 359
This could be son John:
DEATH 1914:
John SLOAN age 74,
Registered Edmonton Vol 3a , Page 489
Cheers
AMBLY
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I wonder if you could now help me find John Sloan`s parents.
Do you mean James SLOAN, ie: the husband of Ann HENDERSON, the father of Margaret NICOL nee SLOAN?
If so, possibly this is his death - from Scotlands People Index search
DEATH: James SLOAN age 62 years
Registered 1866, Blythswood, Lanarkshire
Cheers
AMBLY
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I think the confusion comes from James Sloan - husband of Ann - being listed with a father John when baptised on 8 Jan 1803 at Stair, Ayrshire- edit no mother listed
Kay
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sorry Ambly. I meant the parents of James Sloan.I think his father may have been John .
David
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I hate to say this but are you sure you have got the right Margaret Sloan?? :-\
You say their daughter was Margaret Bisset Nicol who checking on Scotlands People was born in 1861 in Kilsyth, Stirling and there is a marriage of Margaret Sloan to John Nicol on 27 Aug 1852 - Middle Church,Paisley,Renfrew. Do you have the marriage cert?? Edit - But pre 1855 it probably wouldn't name the parents :-\
If this is the right marriage it could not be the Margaret Sloan born in Stair as she was still living with her parents in 1861 (see Ambly's first post above) and I think the family below is John Nichol and Margret Sloan(who married in 1852) in 1861 living in Kilsyth
John Nicoll 32 Hairdresser b Dundee Forfarshire
Margt Nicoll b Kilbarcha, Renfrew
William Nicoll 7 b Neilston, Renfrew
Martha Nicoll 6 b Neilston, Renfrew
John Nicoll 3 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Thomas D Nicoll 1 b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Margt B Nicoll 1 Month b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
For this family the Bisset middle name for Margaret appears to have come her father's side as there is an online death for John Nicol (a barber age 40) on 20 Jan 1867, Kilsyth with wife Margaret and parents James Nicol (innkeeper) and Margaret Nichol nee Bisset
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Hi Kay,
I am fairly certain I have the right Margaret Sloan,married to John Nicol.
One of their daughters was Jane(Mary) Nicol born Oct 24 1865 who ,married a James Henry Murdoch.The following is an excerpt from Janes Family Bible:
I have a beautiful big bible mum gave me years ago. There are certificates of births in it. (I'll send you copies when I send back the photos.)
One is the register of birth of Jane Nicolle, born on 24th October, 1865, at 5.20am in the Parish of Kilsyth, to Margaret Nicol and John Nicolle. Why the difference in spelling of the surnames on this certificate, I have no idea.. It's interesting also to see that a name directly under Margaret Nicol is....M.S.Sloan. The certificate also has the date of Margaret and John's marriage as 24th August, 1853, in Paisley.
Perhaps I have the wrong John Nicol,or some of the children I have attributed to John & Margaret are incorrect?These are the children I have listed of John & Margaret:James,John,Thomas Douglas,Margaret Bisset,Elizabeth & Jane Mary.
Really appreciating your help on this one.
David
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Hi again Kay,
The information from the Bible confirms that I have the correct Margaret Sloan(doesn`t it?)so I gather from your information that I have attributed the wrong children to them(except for Jane(Mary) Nicol.
Regards
David
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The bible confirms that Margaret Sloan married John Nicol pre 1861 but the Margaret Sloan born in Stair in 1833 was still living at home in 1861 as below from Ambly's post
"CENSUS 1861 At: 26 Burnside Street, St George Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 51, Page 3
Head: James SLOAN 58, Joiner, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1803)
Wife: Mrs James 57, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1804)
Dau: Margaret SLOAN 28, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1833)
Dau: Ann SLOAN 25, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1836)
Son: John SLOAN 21, Teacher Of Mathematical?, b Stair, Ayr (abt 1840)
Son: William W SLOAN 18, Student, b Glasgow (abt 1843) "
So the Margaret Sloan that John Nicol married pre 1861 would not have been the Margaret born 1833 in Stair so she must have been born elsewhere.
Using Jane's birth you gave from the bible in 1865 I think this is the right family in 1871 living at Main Street Grindlays House, Kilsyth after John's death with Margaret listed as born about 1835 in Kennap, Renfrewshire
Margaret Nicol 36 Housekeeper Hour b Kennap, Renfrewshire
William Nicol 15 b Barrhead
John Nicol 13 b Kilsyth
Thomas Nicol 12 b Kilsyth
Margaret Nicol 9 b Kilsyth
Elizabeth Nicol 8 b Kilsyth
Jane Nicol 5 b Kilsyth
I think by 1881 the widowed Margaret Nicol had remarried under her maiden name and was living at 55 Tylefield St, Glasgow with two of her children including Jane and two new ones from her marriage to Daniel. Margerat is listed as born Linwood, Renfrewshire
Daniel Trealower 40 Fireman b Cruwel, England
Margaret Trealower 47 b Linwood, Renfrewshire
Elizabeth Nicoll 17 b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Jane Nicoll 15 b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Bennett Trealower 7 b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Daniel Trealower 5 b Glasgow
I had free credits for Scotlands People from this offer http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=745416.0;topicseen so I checked the marriage for Margaret and Daniel Trealower and attach an extract They married on 22 Aug 1871 at Kilsyth and Margaret lists herself as a widow with parents both deceased as Thomas Sloan (pedlar) and Martha Sloan maiden name Douglas
Looking for Margaret Sloan in 1851 premarriage to John Nicol with parents Thomas and Martha this could be her living at Main Street Reid's Land, Linwood,Renfrewshire. (The 1841 census for the same family lists Margaret as born in Scotland)
Thomas Sloan 60 Former Ag Worker b Ireland
Martha Sloan 56 b Ireland
Margaret Sloan 20 b Ireland
Thomas Sloan 16 b Linwood, Renfrewshire
The 1861 census for parents Thomas Sloan and Martha in Kilsyth lists them both as born in Belfast,Ireland and Thomas as a Pedlar
I do hope this isn't too confusing :)
Kay
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Dear Kay99,
I am a bit confused, but think I will be able to follow. Other than for Jane I obviously have the wrong children attached to Margaret and John Nicoll . However, after I amend and replace the existing Margaret and children with those given by you, do I have the correct John Nicholl. ? The John I currently have attached to Margaret was born Dec 1827 in Dundee, Angus/died Jan 20 1867 with father James married to Margaret Bisset.
Thanks for all your help Kay-I`m finally getting it correct as I knew something was wrong but couldn`t find any details which was why I contacted Rootsweb.
Regards,
David
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I am just glad it made sense. I still think that this is the family in 1861 with the Thomas D Nicol you already had and Margaret Bisset Nicol born early 1861 so many of the children tie into the ones you had originally
John Nicoll 32 Hairdresser b Dundee Forfarshire
Margt Nicoll b Kilbarcha, Renfrew
William Nicoll 7 b Neilston, Renfrew
Martha Nicoll 6 b Neilston, Renfrew
John Nicoll 3 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Thomas D Nicoll 1 b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Margt B Nicoll 1 Month b Kilsyth, Stirlingshire
Looking at both 1861 and 1871 census the children would appear to be William 1854, Martha1855, James 1856, John 1857, Thomas Douglas 1859, Margaret Bisset Nicol 1861, Elizabeth 1863, and Jane 1865 - I think this mostly ties up with your list!
The John Nicol you have looks fine and his mother's maiden name as Bisset becomes his daughter's Margaret Bisset's middle name :) Always useful
Good Luck Kay
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Good one Kay, and thanks again for everything.
Best wishes,
David
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Post from Kiwiheritage,
Like the work that all of you have done.
Ancestor line from John and Margaret Nicol to youngest daughter Jane.
Confusing on children listed - note that Martha and James may be cousins as all people in the households need to be recorded but they do not show up again.
My request is to find the Kiwi connections. Jane I find on passenger list to Port Chalmers with a family who I think is her older brother William now married with 2 children in 1884. Have recent info on Jane but cannot find what happened to William and his wife Maggie and family - did they stay in Dunedin or move on. want to know if Jane and William had on-going communication in NZ or not. No information to say they did.
Just interested as Jane's eldest daughter is my grandmother and she had no known information about Jane nor her own siblings. Can anyone help?
Kiwiheritage