RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: lostredsock on Friday 01 April 16 02:32 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
I have been bouncing off this brickwall with one of my great-great-uncles for a couple of years and hope folks here can help me out.
Andrew Buchanan (eldest son of Andrew Buchanan and Ann Horn) was born 1859 at Mt Blackwood in Victoria Australia. His parents - Glaswegians - had emigrated to Australia on the Abdalla in 1853.
Andrew the Younger had married Jeanie Henry:
BUCHANAN - HENRY - On 23rd December,1897
at Scots Church, Collins-street, Melbourne, by the Rev. Dr. Marshall, Andrew Buchanan, eldest son of Andrew Buchanan of Blackwood, to Jeanie Henry, youngest daughter of the late William Henry, of Culnady, Co Derry, Ireland.
What I have cobbled together, is that Andrew and Jeanie could have been members of a mission society and had travelled to South Africa to give service during the Boer War. OR Andrew might have been in South Africa as a merchant/exporter/coffee grower?!?
The only solid info I have are the reports of his death and the fact that his body was brought back to Victoria and he is buried with his parents at Blackwood Cemetery in a family grave.
STRUCK BY LIGHTNING.
News has just been received of the death at Pretoria, South Africa, on January 28, of Mr. Andrew Buchanan, a native of the Blackwood district of Victoria, who left for the seat of war three years ago. The deceased and a companion were proceeding to Mr. Buchanan's residence when a flash of lightning killed him instantly in view of Mrs. Buchanan and her child. Five years ago Mr. Buchanan's father was unable to escape from his burning residence, and so lost his life.
From The Argus, 16 March 1903
BUCHANAN. -On the 28th January, 1903, at the New Military Cantonments, Pretoria, very suddenly, Andrew Buchanan, eldest son of the late Mr. Andrew Buchanan of Blackwood, Victoria.
I have been trying to trace his wife and child Jeanie and their first-born child, a son,
BUCHANAN.—On the 6th October, at "Woodlands," 388 Albert-street, East Melbourne, the wife of Andrew Buchanan—a son.
My ability to get to a public library to access their genealogy resources has become somewhat restricted due to illness, so I would really appreciate any assistance at this time.
Since December 2008, I have been working on a Fletcher/Nicholson/Hook/Buchanan/Hoare/Pope tree at tribalpages. Send me a PM for an invitation to view it. There are a lot of other names as I've been working the marital connections and side-lines.
Thanks,
AJ
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Addendum:
Andrew and Jeanie's son was born on 6 October 1899 and I don't know his name either. :-[
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Have you looked at the free to search VIC BDM website for the son's birth certificate?
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
Cheers, JM
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Ooh, I didn't know there was a free-to-search website! I have just
found him (and several other kinfolk):
Andrew Henry #28193 to Andrew and Jeannie (Henry) Buchanan 1899
Thank you so much for that tip.
:-*
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My resource has his place of birth. East Melbourne.
Cando
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Well, now that I've established the birthplace of Jeannie's first child with Andrew, the focus is now to find out what happened to her as the widow of Andrew.
I assume she accompanied his body back to Australia and that she had remarried at some stage....but have just had a thought that if the Buchanans were primary producers of some description in Pretoria, she may have stayed on to run the business....
..shades of Isak Dinesen. ::) sssh, I'm hunting treasure.
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Have you any other evidence that Andrew's body was returned to Australia for burial?
His name and details of his death on his parents' headstone isn't proof that he was actually interred at Blackwood Cemetery.
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Andrew-Buchanan/3570512#
You need to contact the Trust Secretary for information from the burial register.
Cando
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PROV- Index to Wills, Probate and Administration Records
Andrew Buchanan; Carpenter; Pretoria; date of death 28 Jan 1903
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hdf/
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Back in 2009, the historian of the Blackwood & District Historical Society informed me that five Buchanan's were buried in the cemetery there, and she sent me photographs of the monument (that I've just had another look at)....with six names....
I also had seen a newspaper bit about his body coming back to Australia which, I reckon, got it all wrong. Pooh!
Ironically, Andrew had been Trustee of the Blackwood cemetery from 1884 to 1904.
Back to the drawing board.....thanks for that, Cando.
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PROV- Index to Wills, Probate and Administration Records
Andrew Buchanan; Carpenter; Pretoria; date of death 28 Jan 1903
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hdf/
Terrific! This establishes Jean (Jeannie) Buchanan as being back in Melbourne in February 1904. by late September 1903.
An interesting connection is the attorney in the Transvaal Colony who was her legal counsel, had been Hudson Findlay, the father of philosopher J.N. Findlay.
......Oh the People You Meet, The Stories They'll Tell...
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These details from the marriage certificate of Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Jeanie is stated as being the youngest daughter. What I haven't been able to establish is whether she immigrated to Australia as an adult with other adult siblings (after their parents had died in Ireland); or had emigrated (as a child) with her parents as a family group.
Could someone have a squizz at the Census records, please, to check on the HENRY family in Culnady?
I don't have any information whatsoever that could hint at what ship, port of arrival,
or even the year of immigration.
Getting there with fleshing out Jeannie's story, just don't know how she got here in
the first place! ???
Thanks muchly,
LRS
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TROVE has this account of Andrew senior's death by fire in 1898, his wife Ann having died only some months before.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/88344901
Judith
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Thanks Judith - that's a new link for me! My goodness, I had never heard about great-great granddad Andy going to California when he was 18. I wonder if Andrew Jr had gone to the Transvaal to kick over the traces of their goldrush...
Rather interesting that George MacPherson (a future son-in-law) was on the premises. I had noted that three of the daughters got married rather quickly after Andrew Sr had died....which has got me wondering about how stern he may have been with six daughters. ::)
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These details from the marriage certificate of Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Jeanie is stated as being the youngest daughter. What I haven't been able to establish is whether she immigrated to Australia as an adult with other adult siblings (after their parents had died in Ireland); or had emigrated (as a child) with her parents as a family group.
Could someone have a squizz at the Census records, please, to check on the HENRY family in Culnady?
I don't have any information whatsoever that could hint at what ship, port of arrival,
or even the year of immigration.
Getting there with fleshing out Jeannie's story, just don't know how she got here in
the first place! ???
Thanks muchly,
LRS
Hi
A Victorian marriage certificate will have a column for each of these
Date
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Fathers' names
Fathers' occupations
Groom's mothers name
Bride's mothers name
Also, By whom married, where, and witnesses (in the presence of...)
Would you mind transcribing the complete details word for word.
It may help us in your queries.
Sue
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With respect, Sue, I have provided enough details within the body of this thread for someone
to check the Census records in Ireland for the HENRY family of Culnady.
Marriage Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
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With respect, Sue, I have provided enough details within the body of this thread for someone
to check the Census records in Ireland for the HENRY family of Culnady.
Marriage Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Sure ;D That's Ok, lostredsock.
Just trying to assist with your query about Jane's immigration and the details I requested may have been helpful.
But then again, I will leave it to you to pursue things in the direction you wish.
Jeanie is stated as being the youngest daughter. What I haven't been able to establish is whether she immigrated to Australia as an adult with other adult siblings (after their parents had died in Ireland); or had emigrated (as a child) with her parents as a family group.
Could someone have a squizz at the Census records, please, to check on the HENRY family in Culnady?
I don't have any information whatsoever that could hint at what ship, port of arrival,
or even the year of immigration.
Getting there with fleshing out Jeannie's story, just don't know how she got here in
the first place! ???
Thanks muchly,
LRS
Sue
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Census records in Ireland for the HENRY family of Culnady.
Marriage Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Year of birth: 1860
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Note: Amended year of birth to 1860.
I do get that you are trying to help, Sue, however can you explain how including this information
Also, By whom married, where, and witnesses (in the presence of...)
will help to track how Jeanie Henry came to Australia or even her whereabouts after 1904?
Would you mind transcribing the complete details word for word.
It may help us in your queries.
Doesn't that violate some sort of copyright issue?
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No a transcription doesn't violate copyright issue - inclusion of the actual document could.
Witnesses are extremely valuable clues ... often family members.
I can't understand why you are putting Sue (and others) off. If you knew how brilliant she is at picking up a tiny clue and after some clever sleuthing providing loads of information.
Oh well you know best ... :)
regards
Ros
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With respect, Sue, I have provided enough details within the body of this thread for someone
to check the Census records in Ireland for the HENRY family of Culnady.
Marriage Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861[/b]
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB[/b]
Now would that be the village of Culnady or another village in the townland Culnady in Co Londonderry?
Does the bride's father have an occupation?
Although the first government organised census in Ireland was carried out in 1821 and a census was taken every ten years until 1911, the Enumerators’ Returns which contain details of the members of each family for all places in Ireland, only survive for the years 1901 and 1911.
I would suggest you post all the details from the marriage certificate. Surely that is not an onerous task.
You can search the Victorian passenger lists at PROV for her arrival.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/ships-and-shipping
Cando
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Or you can search for Jane's departure if she left Australia after her husband's burial.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=42
These details from the marriage certificate of Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Jeanie is stated as being the youngest daughter. What I haven't been able to establish is whether she immigrated to Australia as an adult with other adult siblings (after their parents had died in Ireland); or had emigrated (as a child) with her parents as a family group.
You state Jane was the youngest daughter of William HENRY and Jane (nee TOMB). This information is not from a marriage certificate. The newspaper clip perhaps?
You mention siblings to Jane. Can you name them to help us along, please, regarding your immigration query?
Sue
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My ability to get to a public library to access their genealogy resources has become somewhat restricted due to illness, so I would really appreciate any assistance at this time.
Everyone, heads up: the above is what I wrote when I started this thread. I'm quite good myself at finding people on the flimsiest of clues and it is onerous to bring researchers in here up to speed; I'm starting to appreciate what I had been warned about with chemobrain.
If I am coming across as cranky, then I apologise.
Sue,
I notice the slight discrepancy between the birthplace for Jeanie Henry as mentioned in the family notice I had sourced from TROVE and what appears on the marriage certificate itself:
BUCHANAN - HENRY - On 23rd December,1897
at Scots Church, Collins-street, Melbourne, by the Rev. Dr. Marshall, Andrew Buchanan, eldest son of Andrew Buchanan of Blackwood, to Jeanie Henry, youngest daughter of the late William Henry, of Culnady, Co Derry, Ireland.
From the marriage certificate, these are the details about Jeanie Henry:
Name: Jeanie HENRY
Spinster
Birthplace: Culnady, Ireland
Occupation: Saleswoman.
Age: 37
Parents:-
Thomas Henry, Farmer
Jane Tomb
The two witnesses were from the Buchanan side who I had researched a few years back.
I caught of glimpse of this record that suggests this is elder sister of Jeanie, going by the mothers name, which stands out (at least to my aussie eyes).
IG Record 27683
HENRY Margaret Ann William HENRY Jane HENRY nee TOMB Culnady Maghera Loughinsholin Londonderry 1920 - Mrs Margaret Ann Wilson, Culnady, Upperlands, Londonderry. Born about 16 June 1850. 1851 John 4yrs 5mos, James 3, Margaret A. 2.....
http://www.ireland-genealogy.com/view_category/Page-393.html
That's all I can pull up with my old home computer with it's outdated browser and dial-up connection. Cue the violins! ;D
Thanks Sue.
Update:
Just checked the Probate documents that state Mrs Jeanie Buchanan (widow) was living in Douglas-street, Toorak Melbourne, from Sept 1903. This street was also where Toorak College, a boys school from 1874-1918 was situated. Her son, Andrew Henry Buchanan, may been a boarder there?
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Ooh, I didn't know there was a free-to-search website! I have just
found him (and several other kinfolk):
Andrew Henry #28193 to Andrew and Jeannie (Henry) Buchanan 1899
Thank you so much for that tip.
:-*
Did you notice if Jeannie re-married in Victoria? If so, was she consistent with the info she provided about herself to the clergy?
What was her usual address as per her marriage cert to Andrew? Perhaps she had returned to that address after her husband's death, perhaps the Douglas St address was where other family members or inlaws lived. What denomination for her marriage to Andrew Buchanan? Perhaps there's further information in the parish or diocese records?
I doubt Andrew was a boarder at Toorak College, as it was converted to a Girl School in 1897, so it became a Girls School several years before his birth. (See PS below)
Did you try Sue's tip?
Or you can search for Jane's departure if she left Australia after her husband's burial.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=42
These details from the marriage certificate of Jeannie Henry & Andrew Buchanan,
23 December 1897.
Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie HENRY
Age: 37
Est year of birth: 1861
Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
Birthplace: Culnady, Co Derry.
Father: William HENRY (father)
Mother: Jane TOMB
Jeanie is stated as being the youngest daughter. What I haven't been able to establish is whether she immigrated to Australia as an adult with other adult siblings (after their parents had died in Ireland); or had emigrated (as a child) with her parents as a family group.
You state Jane was the youngest daughter of William HENRY and Jane (nee TOMB). This information is not from a marriage certificate. The newspaper clip perhaps?
You mention siblings to Jane. Can you name them to help us along, please, regarding your immigration query?
Sue
Cheers, JM
PS here's the Toorak College info :)
http://www.toorakcollege.vic.edu.au/why-toorak/our-school/toorak-college-history
So why is a school in Mount Eliza called Toorak College?
Toorak College was first established in 1874 as a boys’ school in the Melbourne suburb of Toorak. In 1897, Toorak College was converted into a girls’ school by its first female Principal, Miss Margaret Tripp. In 1919, we moved to more spacious buildings and grounds on Glenferrie Road.
Update:
Just checked the Probate documents that state Mrs Jeanie Buchanan (widow) was living in Douglas-street, Toorak Melbourne, from Sept 1903. This street was also where Toorak College, a boys school from 1874-1918 was situated. Her son, Andrew Henry Buchanan, may been a boarder there?
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What is in no doubt, Jeanie Henry has been recorded in at least three different countries:
1860 Culnady Ireland
1897 Melbourne, Australia
1903 Pretoria, Transvaal Colony, Sth Africa
then she's back in Melbourne by close of 1903.
What was her usual address as per her marriage cert to Andrew? I had provided that
information. Here it is again: Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
I'm very familiar with Grey-street, East Melbourne. My aunt lived there (she was Andrew's great niece) and according to the records of the East Melbourne Historical Society, there were several hostels, boarding houses, etc. http://emhs.org.au/
Still searching on that Outward Passengers prov link and ditto with a re-marriage in Victoria.
Jeanie could have had a second or even third child in Pretoria....the worms in this can just keep on getting wrigglier. ::)
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What was her usual address as per her marriage cert to Andrew? I had provided that
information. Here it is again: Residence: Grey-street, East Melbourne, Victoria, Aus.
I had thought perhaps that was the residence of the Groom ..... I can see now that your post is to be read as the Residence of the Bride. I have not ever seen a Victoria BDM marriage where there's three different spellings for the given name of the Bride. I now realise you have not posted all the details from the image of that marriage certificate, despite it being available for any member of the general public to download from Vic BDM on payment of their usual fees.
You mentioned earlier about Mission work for Andrew and Jeanie .... in South Africa .... can you provide further information .... which denomination, how long were they there, did they receive training prior to or once they arrived, as perhaps Jeanie returned to the Missionary Society after settling the deceased estate matters.
Cheers, JM
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I did pay the fees to download the marriage certificate from BDM.
Thankyou for your help, JM.
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I did pay the fees to download the marriage certificate from BDM.
Thankyou for your help, JM.
I was not suggesting you had avoided paying those fees, but I am concerned that some of the experienced RChatters with much better understanding of the Victorian records from that era than me would need to spend their own money to help you to advance your quest, as they have asked a question about that marriage certificate that you have ready access to. The analysis of Vic BDMs by those experienced RChatters can be remarkable.
Cheers, JM
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I would think the experienced RChatters in here wouldn't be so silly as to dole out their own money for BDM records that don't pertain to their own genealogy...
You concern is duly noted.
http://blog.eogn.com/2015/04/04/i-have-a-complaint-concerning-many-genealogists/
I stated this in my first post which I'll repeat here as it seems to have been overlooked:
Since December 2008, I have been working on a Fletcher/Nicholson/Hook/Buchanan/Hoare/Pope tree at tribalpages. Send me a PM for an invitation to view it. There are a lot of other names as I've been working the marital connections and side-lines.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368728.0
The thread is stickied at the top of this board :)
Very important bit !
We have some excellent RootsChat members with some very special talents who try there best to help everyone who posts a message on the site. I know of quite a few (you know who you are) who have gone out of their way and spent there own “brass” (money) in some cases just to bring a smile to RootsChatters face here and there.
RChatters volunteer their time, and resources to help each other, and as per that thread, yes, I know of RChatters who have spent their own funds on certificates to help other RChatters to advance their quests.
Thank you for your link to the US based blog. It is referring to US Federal Law. Victoria is a sovereign state within the Commonwealth of Australia. Are you saying that any person could go to the Registrar General's office and expect to view the original document for any particular entry that is found at their online index.... I can assure you that that is simply NOT possible for NSW. Many of the NSW records are NOT available to the public and have been conserved and archived at NSW state records at Kingswood. (Add, and they are not available to the general public there either).
Yes, I did not miss noticing your earlier mention re Tribal Pages. I have not taken up your invitation, as my own research into my own family history does not give me any reason to consider the surname Buchanan or Henry as being in my own tree chart.....
Cheers, JM
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Many Victorian R'chat members have access to records which are not available generally.
Some of these, -- cds, hard copy rates books or street and address directories-- are very useful in locating people and information.
Already on this thread, a good deal of information you didn't have is now in your possession. Correct?
However, when you as the poster of this thread, have information you can't be bothered listing because you find it tedious, helpers may well decide to direct their energies towards other inquiries.
So really, it is in your hands. ;D
What were the names of the witnesses on the marriage certificate?
Sue
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Already on this thread, a good deal of information you didn't have is now in your possession. Correct?
Sue
Within this thread, I was given two links. The information I have gleaned from those links, has come via my own efforts.[/]
You haven't offered me anything concrete.
I am shutting down this thread.
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Already on this thread, a good deal of information you didn't have is now in your possession. Correct?
Sue
Within this thread, I was given two links. The information I have gleaned from those links, has come via my own efforts.[/]
You haven't offered me anything concrete.
I am shutting down this thread.
What a confusing post.
ADD, OP edited their post, most likely while I was in the process of posting my response.... that will learn me not to pause and ponder at the construct. :) nits a knitting.
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lostredsock,
You have edited your post, but I do recall a good deal of it and I am so sorry you were so offended by my quote "sense of self importance" quote in trying to help.
I hope that as you follow your stated decision to quote"direct your energies towards other forums where contributors are not pre-occupied with picking nits" quote that you are successful in your search for Jeannie HENRY.
Sue