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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jessies Mum on Tuesday 29 March 16 09:18 BST (UK)
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Searching for information surrounding Edward Wotton and his wife. From 1866 he became the proprietor of the Great Britain Hotel in Richmond, Melbourne, Victoria.
I have no information on Edward or his wife whatsoever - all I know is that Mrs Wotton is possibly the Aunt of my 2x Great Grandmother (my 2x GGM was from Ireland and came out to Australia to work at the hotel with her Aunt who was the proprietress). The date of her arrival in Australia is 1870.
Any assistance would be most appreciated.
Thanking you all in advance.
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And your 2xGreat grandmothers name is? Married? single? born ?
You don't know who mister Wottons wife is?
Umm if: (my 2x GGM was from Ireland and came out to Australia to work at the hotel with her Aunt who was the proprietress) then doesn't that make her your 2xGreat grandmothers aunt ???
Neil
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Yes Neil, you've repeated everything that i have stated earlier.
My 2x GGM was Elizabeth (or Eliza) White. She travelled out aboard the Lady Jocelyn arriving in 1870 to commence work with her Aunt (the proprietress of the Great Britain Hotel). Elizabeth was single arriving as a 17-18 year old. It is on Elizabeth's record of passage that it states she was a domestic servant going to work for Mrs Wotton in Richmond.
It is on Elizabeth's obituary notice that I have learned the information that she came to work at the Hotel with her Aunt. No name of her Aunt was mentioned in the obituary.
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So it is possible that the Aunt simply worked atthe hotel, rather than being her employer?
I guess the point of difference is whether she came to work at the hotel WITH her Aunt, or FOR her Aunt?
The only Edward WOOTTON/WOTTON I can see is Edward Bushell. He married Jane CROCKFORD in 1865 (reg 2532). But the marriage notice suggests her father lived in Victoria too?
The Argus, 26 Jul 1865
WOOTON—CROCKFORD.—On the 15th inst., at St. Peter's Church, Melbourne by the Rev. H. P.
Handfield, Edward Bushell Wootton, of Sandridge, son of the late Stephen Wootton Esq., of Margate, Kent, England, to Jane Crockford, second daughter of John Edward Crockford, Esq., of Sandridge.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5763878
PS Edward B WOOTTON died in 1869 aged 39 and Jane remarried to Wm ALLEN in 1870.
EDIT: Jane died in 1874, aged 28, daughter of Robert CROCKFORD and Elizabeth CROXFORD [?], born Bucks. Is that a match??
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George Frederick WOOTTON and his wife Margaret JOHNSTONE had several children born in Richmond 1866-78...still looking....
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From a previous post on here, I was given the information that Edward Wotton had the licence of the Great Britain Hotel transferred into his name on 23 July 1866.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611773.0
It is now only tonight that I have found Elizabeth's passenger record that tells me she was employed by Mrs Wotton of Richmond. Elizabeth's obituary can be found at:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/78006410?searchTerm=%22williams%22%20%22port%20macdonnell%22%20%22obituary%22&searchLimits=l-australian=y|||l-state=South+Australia
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QUOTE : (Yes Neil, you've repeated everything that i have stated earlier) ??? ???
I cannot find any info on BDM indexes for a Edward Wotton? But there are two marriages for a Edward Bushell WOOTON
1860 Sarah WOOTON
1865 Jane CROCKFORD
in 1868 he died parents listed as Stephen Wooton and Rebecca Homewood.
Could Wotton be Wootton?
Neil
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I think since Edward B WOOTTON/WOTTON proprietor of the hotel in 1866, died in 1869, ownership may have transfered again around this time?
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I certainly wouldn't disregard that at all Neil - could be quite possible that Wooton/Wotton are the same!
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WHITE was her fathers surname what was her mothers? Aunts come from both sides of parents!
Does the surname "EWELL" ring any bells?
Neil
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Thank you for the advice of his death year Mollipops, that gives me a great starter to begin with.
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Good question Neil - Elizabeth's mother surname is extremely difficult to decipher on the marriage certificate and has therefore been unknown - so the knowledge of the Aunt's surname is the first progress I have ever had.
Elizabeth was from Scarriff, County Clare, Ireland.
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I certainly wouldn't disregard that at all Neil - could be quite possible that Wooton/Wotton are the same!
I've researched quite a few Wottons who entered Australia via SA. A large family. Some of them moved through VIC, NSW and QLD, also WA.
I wonder if they are related. Maybe his obituary would be a good start on Trove (if it's there?).
And regarding the spelling, the ones I chased were alternatively Watton, Wotton, Wootton etc :-\
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I think since Edward B WOOTTON/WOTTON proprietor of the hotel in 1866, died in 1869, ownership may have transfered again around this time?
The obituary states she worked for her aunt at that hotel but not the aunt's name. Does she appear as "Mrs Wotton/Wootton" somewhere else? Or is your search based on finding Mr Wootton/Wotton as the licencee in the 1860s? As stated above, the publican may have changed around the time of his death - prior to Miss White's arrival in Victoria.
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It is on Elizabeth's record of passage that it states she was a domestic servant going to work for Mrs Wotton in Richmond.
Ah I see. So the assumption is that this is the same person who is mentioned in her obit as her aunt. Does it specifically mention Richmond? I am a little confused given the Sandridge link.
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This article links Edward WOOTTON to Sandridge (as per marriage notice) and also to the hotel being in Sandridge (later known as Port Melbourne).
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/188572119
His wife had a child with 2nd husband - http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138634435
The Australasian, 24 Jan 1874
ALLEN. - On the 8th inst. at Bay-street, Sandridge the wife of Wm. Allen, late of Williamstown, of a daughter. Launceston papers please copy.
She died in March that year - note she was still living at a hotel/inn! - http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199381093
The Age, 11 Mar 1874
The Friends of Mr. WILLIAM ALLEN are respectfully invifed to follow the remains of his late wife to the place of interment, Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral will move from her residence, the Retreat Inn, at the corner of Raglan and Nott streets, Sandridge, THIS DAY, at three o'clock
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FYI this is the article about the transfer of licence - it doesn't mention Richmond. That hotel (Church St) looks much newer I think? (c1890?)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5768593
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Good question Neil - Elizabeth's mother surname is extremely difficult to decipher on the marriage certificate and has therefore been unknown - so the knowledge of the Aunt's surname is the first progress I have ever had.
Elizabeth was from Scarriff, County Clare, Ireland.
Hi there,
If you were to take a snip of the hard to decipher section of that marriage cert and attach that snip to a post at RChat, I am fairly sure that there's a few RChatters who will attempt to decipher the signature..... there's even a whole board dedicated to deciphering handwriting.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/
Cheers, JM
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Seems that there were a few WHITE family members from County Clare Immigrated to Australia.
Have you seen this site? http://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/clare/rath/message-board/white-family
You can do a search of all the households for the surname WHITE in County Clare there are 63. As we don't have Elizabeth/Eliza Whites parents names you will have to search. it is a pay site however.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hcv/
Can i ask please Jessie's Mum, if you could put ALL the information you hold into your original post we can move forward much more quickly also any past posts re the same people should have the link inserted. If you are unsure just let us know and we can try and get over the little bumps. ;)
The Clare county board should be able to dig out the Maiden name of Eliza's Mother and possible Aunts and Uncles.
Neil ;D
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Thank you for the advice Neil, I wasn't aware of the site you have mentioned, so will be definitely heading to check that out.
As for the surname of Elizabeth's mother, I have attached the snippet from the marriage certificate - hopefully that may be of assistance.
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My suggested transcription:
John WILLIAMS
Clara WILLIAMS
Francis WHITE
Michael HAINE (an alternative as KAINE)
I have seen Frances for males and Francis for females, although the spelling is more usually vice versa.
add PS, unusual order to those names .... I was expecting it to be: Male, Female, Male, Female. I have not ever considered Michael to be a female name.
Fingers crossed.
Cheers, JM
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I think it is clear from your previous thread and this post from Cando-
TOOHEY's were at the South Melbourne hotel in 1861 and the licence was transferred to Mr WOTTON in July 1866.
that Edward WOOTON (above) is not the husband of the aunt at the Great Britain in Richmond.
So I am not sure why you are still searching for a man named Edward WOOTON
Searching for information surrounding Edward Wotton and his wife. From 1866 he became the proprietor of the Great Britain Hotel in Richmond, Melbourne, Victoria.
Edward Bushell WOOTON is not connected to your family based on the information to date.
He was insolvent in December 1865, was of Sandridge and had been licensee of a number of hotels in the (now) South Melbourne area. So wrong man, wrong hotel.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5763616
Sue
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I think HAINE will be correct.
Here it is used in the given names of one of thecouple's children born in SA
1885 WILLIAMS John Haines
Parents Matthew WILLIAMS and Elizabeth WHITE
At Grey 343/338
Sue
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Thank you Sue for your advice, however Haines was from the Williams side of the family and had been used in naming a generation previous to that and is NOT connected to Elizabeth White herself (other than once she married into the Williams family). Therefore the name in the signatures may be a pure coincidence.
As stated earlier in this post Sue, Mrs Wooton of Richmond was the person named on the immigration form relevant to Elizabeth - this is why I have been asking questions around this name as I had been informed on a previous post from Cando that Edward Wotton was the licensee in 1866 and Elizabeth arrived in 1870 when her Aunt was the proprietress. I am just seeking information to establish if this is indeed Elizabeth's Aunt and possibly learning more.
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In this quote from your previous thread, Cando says ......
There were three hotels with the name Great Britain Hotel in the period - Flinders Street, Melbourne; Clarendon Street, South Melbourne and Richmond.
The licence of the Great Britain in Richmond was transferred from Matthew TOOHEY to Edward WOTTON on 23 July 1866 so perhaps the TOOHEYs left for Sydney around this time.
Cando
In this quote Cando corrects the location to South Melbourne, not Richmond
TOOHEY's were at the South Melbourne hotel in 1861 and the licence was transferred to Mr WOTTON in July 1866.
Cando
In this quote you say Elizabeth was destined for the Great Britain Hotel in RICHMOND.
It is not the same hotel as the one in South Melbourne.
Hi all,
I know all previous messages around this are from some time back, but I have just discovered Eliza's immigration record finally.
She was off to Richmond, Melbourne - exactly where the Great Britain Hotel was (and still is) located.
I feel like I've struck gold!
Just wanted to share this with you all - it certainly looks like Wotton is the name she is employed by!
Mrs WOOTON was the proprietress of the Great Britain Hotel in RICHMOND No doubt she was Elizabeth’s aunt, but no evidence she was connected to anyone named Edward WOOTON. He was possibly the licensee of the hotel of the same name in Sandridge, not RICHMOND
As stated earlier in this post Sue, Mrs Wooton of Richmond was the person named on the immigration form relevant to Elizabeth - this is why I have been asking questions around this name as I had been informed on a previous post from Cando that Edward Wotton was the licensee in 1866 and Elizabeth arrived in 1870 when her Aunt was the proprietress. I am just seeking information to establish if this is indeed Elizabeth's Aunt and possibly learning more.
Sue
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Okay I'm confused.
So we know Edward WOTTON/WOOTTON was in Sandridge (Port Melbourne), that he became licencee of the Great Britain Hotel in 1866, but died in 1869. His wife remarried in 1870 and stayed in the Sandridge area.
The question then is did Elizabeth WHITE's 1870 immigration record specifically state she was going to work for a Mrs WOTTON in RICHMOND??
There was another WOTTON/WOOTTON couple as I mentioned on page 1, who lived in Richmond around this period.
I think there are still more questions here than answers! ???
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Just checked her obit again and it says
"After staying with her aunt, who was the proprietress of the Great Britain Hotel in Melbourne"
So she stayed there...doesn't say she worked there. And it says Melbourne so could be Richmond, or could be Sandridge (the latter being closer to where her ship would have arrived).
I'm assuming that the immigration record doesn't specifically say she is arriving to work for her aunt? So even if it states she was arriving to work for Mrs WOTTON of Richmond, this could have been as a housekeeper/maid in a private dwelling...
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And it says Melbourne so could be Richmond, or could be Sandridge (the latter being closer to where her ship would have arrived).
I'm assuming that the immigration record doesn't specifically say she is arriving to work for her aunt? So even if it states she was arriving to work for Mrs WOTTON of Richmond, this could have been as a housekeeper/maid in a private dwelling...
This is from Jessies Mum's other thread on the family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611773.18
Hi all,
I know all previous messages around this are from some time back, but I have just discovered Eliza's immigration record finally.
She was off to Richmond, Melbourne - exactly where the Great Britain Hotel was (and still is) located.
I feel like I've struck gold!
Just wanted to share this with you all - it certainly looks like Wotton is the name she is employed by!
I have not seen or located the immigration record.
Sue
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You have Eliza WHITE as marrying at age 18. From her marriage cert,
:) what was her usual place of residence,
:) who gave consent for her to marry, and what was their relationship to her
:) who were the witnesses
:) Is there any mention of WOTTON or variations on that document?
VIC BDM https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
1874 Matthew WILLIAMS and Eliza WHITE #529
1869 Fanny WOOTTON death, with parents as Edward Bushe WOOTTON and Jane CROCKFORD #5557 and at Yarra, in 1868, birth #19715.
May I mention that there's an Eliza WHITE who arrived in Melbourne per Caduceus in 1870. She was aged 16, and a Teacher. She seems to have travelled with 18 year old Elizabeth A WHITE, also a Teacher.
It is on Elizabeth's record of passage that it states she was a domestic servant going to work for Mrs Wotton in Richmond.
Ah I see. So the assumption is that this is the same person who is mentioned in her obit as her aunt. Does it specifically mention Richmond? I am a little confused given the Sandridge link.
The surname WHITE was and still is quite a popular surname.
Cheers, JM
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I see that Cando asked about that marriage back several years ago
Was Elizabeth 21 when she married, if not who gave consent?
What was her usual address...and occupation?
Where was she married? Perhaps the parish record of the marriage may be more legible.
Cando
But I have not found the snippets.....
Will try and scan certificate today to add snippets on here. White was Elizabeth's maiden name, she married and became Williams. On the marriage certificate it states she was 20 years of age and a servant, but on her death certificate it states she was married at age 18. Both certificates state she was born in County Clare, Ireland - it is the obituary that gives the Scarriff (only found that on line yesterday). On the marriage certificate it states her present and usual residence were both Melbourne. Her father Francis White, on her marriage certificate, has an occupation of Shoemaker. Nothing about parents on the death certificate.
Cheers, JM
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Deleted because incorrect observation ;D
Sue
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George Frederick WOOTTON and his wife Margaret JOHNSTONE had several children born in Richmond 1866-78...still looking....
Thought I'd look at this couple again. If you definitely have "Mrs Wotton of Richmond" she seems a likely candidate. They lived in Richmond and had 9 children - so she would probably have needed help round the house!!!
She died in 1921, late of 8 Wangaratta St Richmond (from Trove, 21 Jan 1921), aged 76, daughter of Robert JOHNSTON[E] and Ann MARSHALL (reg 3335).
My point is the aunt she stayed with briefly in the Melbourne hotel is not necessarily who she was going to work for in Richmond...
It is also worth noting that Jane, wife of Edward WOOTTON of Sandridge, nee CROCKFORD, was born in Bucks, not Ireland.
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Do you have Elizabeth WILLIAMS nee WHITE's SA death certificate?
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Hi mollipops 1
This quote from Jessies Mum's other thread about Elizabeth. Reply #25 where she is quite specific about the destination of Elizabeth.
As I said, I have not been able to locate the immigration notice myself ::)
Hi all,
I know all previous messages around this are from some time back, but I have just discovered Eliza's immigration record finally.
She was off to Richmond, Melbourne - exactly where the Great Britain Hotel was (and still is) located.
I feel like I've struck gold!
Just wanted to share this with you all - it certainly looks like Wotton is the name she is employed by!
Do you have Elizabeth WILLIAMS nee WHITE's SA death certificate?
Did you see a comment from Cando regarding the certificate for Elizabeth's death?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611773.18
Reply #16
I'm sure Jessies Mum will be online again soon to comment further ;D
Sue
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In haste....I have a female relative named Michael whose parents were Irish and the surname appears to be KAINE. Just my two bob's worth. I'll read all the new posts when I get a moment.
I did spend a bit of time a couple of days ago and Edward WOTTON appeared to be from Kent.
My point is the aunt she stayed with briefly in the Melbourne hotel is not necessarily who she was going to work for in Richmond...
mollipops
Eliza WHITE was an Assisted Immigrant
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hdg/
LADY JOCELYN Ship Mr VERDON’s Selection
Agreement# 153
Name of Immigrant WHITE Eliza
Age 19 years
Calling General Servant
Name of Employer Mrs WARTTON
Residential ? Richmond
Date of Agreement 7 Feb 1870
Wage £25.0.0.
Period ? 1 month
Cheers
Cando
Edit to add transcribed record and snip
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It is also worth noting that Jane, wife of Edward WOOTTON of Sandridge, nee CROCKFORD, was born in Bucks, not Ireland.
Yes, I am quite sure Edward Bushell WOOTON (of Sandridge)is not the husband this Mrs WOOTON.
Sue
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Do you have Elizabeth WILLIAMS nee WHITE's SA death certificate?
mollipops
I don't know how this will assist. SA death certificates have scant information.
Cando
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I think HAINE will be correct.
Here it is used in the given names of one of the couple's children born in SA
1885 WILLIAMS John Haines
Parents Matthew WILLIAMS and Elizabeth WHITE
At Grey 343/338
Sue
Thank you Sue for your advice, however Haines was from the Williams side of the family and had been used in naming a generation previous to that and is NOT connected to Elizabeth White herself (other than once she married into the Williams family). Therefore the name in the signatures may be a pure coincidence.
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Jessies Mum, when the name was used in naming WILLIAMs children as you say, was the spelling of the name HAINE/S or variations such as HAYNE/S?
I ask because it may be that fine point of difference which ends up being important ;D
It maybe that the name was indeed "connected to Elizabeth WHITE herself"
Sue
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I've helped with the WILLIAMS research previously. HAINES is from that side of the family.
Cando
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LADY JOCELYN Ship Mr VERDON’s Selection
Agreement# 153
Name of Immigrant WHITE Eliza
Age 19 years
Calling General Servant
Name of Employer Mrs WARTTON
Residential ? Richmond
Date of Agreement 7 Feb 1870
Wage £25.0.0.
Period ? 1 month
Cheers
Cando
To me it looks like Mrs WHITTON of Vaucluse, Richmond.
Debra :)
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This one is a lot clearer
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Wooton, Wootton, Woton, whaton, Williams, White, Wartton, Whitten, GEES NOW Haines, Haynes, Hampster, whodunnit. Hell WHO put VERDON in ??? don't you know thats going backward you know U,V,W.
28 many years of research and we still haven't found the right name ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o :o :o
;D ;D
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Yes, very clear.
I suppose it is the same record Jessies Mum is referring to. ::)
Good finding Debra!
Sue
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WHITTEN.
http://www.thevauclusehotel.com.au/
Neil
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Do you have Elizabeth WILLIAMS nee WHITE's SA death certificate?
mollipops
I don't know how this will assist. SA death certificates have scant information.
Cando
Excuse my ignorance, quite right. No parents info at all.
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WHITTEN.
http://www.thevauclusehotel.com.au/
Neil
BINGO! Yes I thought it looked like Vaucluse, R'mond when I first saw it too. How amazing such a small snippet could make so much difference ;D
So now does this mean that Mrs Whitten is not likely to be the aunt, just the employer? OR did the obit get that little detail about the hotel name wrong (cos we know that could never happen...) ;)
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Family History Beginners Board
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Probably
Neil
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???
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The Vaucluse is a street in Richmond and when land was being subdivided allotments were advertised for sale at Vaucluse, Richmond.
I have located a George WOOTTON in the Richmond Rate Book in 1859. Bear in mind that names were written down as they sounded to the recorder.
If I find time I'll get all my directories out.
He and his wife Mary nee BAKER both died in Richmond. They appear to have arrived in 1850 with several chn. I typed up all the details and the lot disappeared when I pressed post.....but I am having ISP problems >:( >:( :'(
Cando
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George WOOTTON had rateable property in Abinger Street, two streets north of The Vaucluse and both these streets meet Church Street. So residential address Vaucluse, Richmond in 1870 would surely include Abinger Street.
Cando
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???
We are beginning again. ::)
Neil
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I've researched all this in the directories previously so perhaps those interested could read the linked threads. I agree with Neil we are visiting old research.
Cando
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George Frederick WOOTTON and his wife Margaret JOHNSTONE had several children born in Richmond 1866-78...still looking....
This is George's son.
Cando
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I had a look at this family yesterday and did note that George WOOTTON died in 1887.
I see now his address was 305 Church Street Richmond which is very close to Vaucluse Richmond.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197453418
He had, among other children, a son named Louis also a carpenter, who lived in Chapel Street Richmond. This is off Church Street near Swan Street and a few metres from the Great Britain Hotel :P ::) ???
Sue
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George was also at 313 Church Street :)
Cando
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The Vaucluse [hotel] was formerly the Railway Hotel. Just a bit of trivia :)
Cando
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Death of George's wife Mary nee BAKER of Richmond. Doesn't look like a match to me but who knows.
Name: Mary WOOTTON
Father: Ellis BAKER
Mother: Ann DEARMAN
Age: 65
Birth Place: ENGL
Year/Reg.: 1876/6892
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202160768
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Of course if the SLV hadn't removed the Tetlow Index to Robert COLE's records from their website, I could have checked online for the owner/licensee of the Great Britain Hotel at Richmond in 1870. It was a wonderful resource for anyone researching hotels in Melbourne.
Jessies Mum I suggest you contact the library and ask them for a lookup...that was their suggestion to me if I required further info from the Index.
Robert K Cole was a well-known identity in the brewing world of Victoria, joining Carlton & United Breweries (CUB) in 1906 and spending all of his working life at a Victorian plant. He was a member of the Historical Society of Victoria, taking particular interest in the history of the brewing industry and hotels in Victoria.
Cando
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Hotel licensees changed rather frequently so it seems.
The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Thu 6 Mar 1873 Page 2
The Richmond licensing bench sat yesterday.........
Sydney W. Jonnes, the Great Britain Hotel, Church-street; house out of repair, and application withdrawn.
May be Sydney Walter JONNES with a wife named Margaret RICHARDSON?
Essie
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Perhaps Jessies Mum will soon oblige by letting us know whether or not the information provided in response to her query has been of interest.
Meantime, just to tie up the question of the Great Britain Hotel in RICHMOND.
I had been wondering why there was not one sighting in any paper of this establishment in the period 1865 to 1872 and so I have visited the extensive records of the Richmond Historical Society.
From at least 1861, the place was known as The Quarryman's Arms Hotel.
Registered as occupiers, so may or may not be also the licensees-
1870, Mrs HOGAN
1871, Thomas MAXWELL
1872, Robert GYTON
In 1872, Abigail KELLY applied for the licence and also to change the name from The Quarryman's Arms to The Great Britain Hotel. This newly named place was licenced to Abigail KELLY 4th December 1872.
So it looks impossible that Elizabeth WHITE could have gone to be employed at The Great Britain Hotel in RICHMOND in 1870, when it did not exist.
I remain confused about the immigration records.
Is the one cited by Debra (Dundee) the same one as Jessies Mum is talking about?
Details seem different.
Sue
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Just adding a question for Jessies Mum.
Re above reply.
Do any of those surnames have any relevance to the family that you know of?
Sue
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Thank you all so sincerely - unfortunately i have been off site for personal reasons - cannot thank you enough for all of the extensive research you have undertaken - i will print this off and go through thoroughly and see how it all ties in. I appreciate all of your time and effort and will be back soon with a response. Thank you again.