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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: LUV on Monday 28 March 16 00:49 BST (UK)
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Hi All
I dearly need a little help from some Rootschat Sleuths ;)
Or perhaps a little help with the Lancashire resources or both :-*
I have a family that immigrated to Canada from England in 1913.
They appear on the Canadian 1921 Census
George Dutton 33 (born abt 1888)
wife Elizabeth 34 (born abt 1887)
daughter Rebecca 13 (born abt 1908)
son George 10
From their daughter Rebecca's later marriage I got Mom's maiden name 'Cass'.
And that Rebecca was born Blackpool, England
So, I have the family on the 1911 British Census
Blackpool, Lancashire
George Dutton 22 (so born abt 1889) Plumber, born "Manchester Hulme"
wife Elizabeth Mary 24 (so born abt 1887) born "Liverpool RockFerry"
daughter Rebecca 3 (abt 1908)
son George 6 mths
From the FREEBMD - I have the 1907 marriage George Dutton to Elizabeth Mary Cass, District Fylde, Lancashire.
Now, the problem working back words is that there are a number of George Dutton's that could be my guy... :-\ And as well, even Elizabeth Mary Cass is not a cinch either for parentage as there are a few Elizabeth Cass'.
I believe by elimination that Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Philip Cass
Birth: 9 Aug 1886 - St. Cleopas, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Baptism: 27 Oct 1886 - St. Cleopas', Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Now this is not "Rockferry" but is it close???
I am not adverse to paying for the marriage but I was hoping to only have to buy documents when I get further back and really need help :P
I have tried to eliminate the Elizabeth Cass' and George Duttons to find my correct ones but of course I think I now can't see the forest for the trees or something!!!
Even a fresh pair of eyes would be helpful and quite welcomed ... to find out who is George Dutton and Elizabeth Mary Cass' parents??
Thanks all
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Liverpool Rock Ferry is misleading ....Rock Ferry is across the River Mersey in Cheshire - Liverpool was Lancashire ....they probably wrote Liverpool as no one would recognise Rock Ferry .
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
1886 Elizabeth Cass Tranmere - the district office she was registered - next to Rock Ferry -
so your Toxteth born Elizabeth Cass may be wrong .....I am not saying it is - but you need to research the 1886 born Cheshire - Tranmere registered Elizabeth Cass .....Tranmere to Rock Ferry is a mile ....Rock Ferry to Liverpool is across the Mersey ,probably about 5 miles ...back soon
ADDED ...we will need other members to research with us - there is this family in 1901 census
...
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS6P-3Z3
no Elizabeth - but she would be 14 and possibly in service or a waitress / Chambermaid in Blackpool ??...or maybe with grandparents on the day of the census .
1885 born John - is John Francis Cass on Cheshirebmd ...
John Francis Cass marries 5th Nov 1917 at St Matthew ,Birkenhead aged 32 - to Sarah Broadfield
father John Cass
brides father Eli Broadfield
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3G4-ZJQ
this is the only Cass family I can find close to Rock Ferry
AARouteplanner has
Rock Ferry to Tranmere = .7 of a mile
Rock Ferry to Birkenhead = 1.6 miles ...so they are very very close to each other
Rock Ferry to Liverpool through the Mersey Tunnel is 4 miles ....but of course the tunnel wasn't built until 1933....
so - I would be looking at John Cass / Mary Cass - Rock Ferry area - Elizabeth registered in Tranmere ...
need help of other members please
:)
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Purchase of the marriage certificate for George and Elizabeth Mary will give you the fathers' names. As the marriage is listed on LancashireBMD as "Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended" that may be your only access to the information.
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Hello,
I would say you are right with your assumptions re Elizabeth.
1901 3972/67/18
9 Jackson Street, Blackpool
Thomas P Cass 37 yrs Grocer's Assistant b Newcastle Staffordshire
Martha Cass 40 yrs b Mayo, Ireland
Thomas Cass 11 yrs b Lancaster, Lancashire
Elizabeth M Cass 14 yrs b Rockferry, Cheshire
William A Cass 8 yrs b Lancaster
Robert M Cass 5 yrs b Lancaster
Alexander Cass 3 yrs Preston
Emma Cass 1 yr b Preston
Regards
Heywood
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http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Shows a marriage - West Derby (a district near Liverpool) 1885 for Thomas to Martha Allen.
Births on the same site show Cass with mother Allen.
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Thanks Heywood - good find for Elizabeth M Cass in Blackpool 1901 census aged 14 b Rock Ferry ...
just to put you wise - West Derby is a District of Liverpool - West Derby Registration Office covered the districts of Liverpool of Wavertree / Garston / Allerton / Kirkdale / Everton and possibly a couple more ...
so - Cass family in Birkenhead in 1901 census is the wrong one ...
Well done Heywood - we now have Elizabeth Mary Cass parents and siblings ....one down , one to go ...lol
the Lancaster born children of Thomas and Martha are on Lan-Opc
Baptism: 28 Dec 1891 St Mary, Lancaster, Lancashire, England
Thomas Phillip Cass - [Child] of Thomas Phillip Cass & Martha
Born: 13 Mar 1890
Abode: 60 Eastham Street
Occupation: Grocer
Baptism: 24 Jun 1894 St Mary, Lancaster, Lancashire, England
Rebecca Phillipcass - [Child] of Thomas Phillipcass & Martha
Born: 10 May
Abode: 42 China Lane
Occupation: Grocer
Notes: [The entry for the surname is clearly Phillipcass, but other sources indicate
it should be Cass]
Baptism: 24 Jun 1894 St Mary, Lancaster, Lancashire, England
William Allen Phillipcass - [Child] of Thomas Phillipcass & Martha
Born: 8 May 1892
Abode: 42 China Lane
Occupation: Grocer
Notes: [The entry for the surname is clearly Phillipcass, but other sources indicate
it should be Cass]
:)
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I have found a burial for Rebecca Cass aged 13 months - fits perfectly for the Rebecca baptism of Thomas and Marthas child
Burial: 20 Jun 1895 St Luke, Skerton, Lancashire, England
Rebecca Cass -
Age: 13 mos.
Abode: Skerton
Skerton is a district of Lancaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skerton
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It is looking to be the right one, isn't it. :) especially re the birth/ death of child Rebecca and George and Elizabeth's child bearing that name.
Thanks for the explanation re WD, garstonite.
I mentioned the Liverpool/WD reference in case LUV wasn't familiar with the area. I have seen people mistaking it for Derby ;)
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I am not adverse to paying for the marriage but I was hoping to only have to buy documents when I get further back and really need help :P
That is a false economy - if you don't get the beginnings of your tree absolutely correct, then everything beyond that is based on assumption and guesswork.
I've recently spent a lot of time sorting out a tree done by someone who had taken their family back 9 generations - unfortunately they hadn't bought the birth certificate of the G-Grandfather (in the 1880s), and had made an assumption based on his appearance in the census and GRO indexes.
That assumption was proved to be wrong once the correct birth certificate was obtained - so although they had spent a lot of time, money and effort meticulously researching (and had done it very well indeed) a further 6 generations back to the late 1600s, it was on completely the wrong family.
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Hello to all
I am in Canada so a bit behind the time (literally)
So a huge THANK YOU to ALL for weighing in on this... ;)
I appreciate the hand and later it will be of great use :-*
Obviously the fresh pairs of eyes found some of the same issues I did ... there are just too many candidates for both the correct George and Elizabeth and the geography where they lived (or where they were supposedly born) is a bit confusing too. Nothing is firm enough with this couple!
Both BumbleB and AntonyMMM make a valid and very good point... which is that at this stage I should probably get their marriage certificate.
Purchase of the marriage certificate for George and Elizabeth Mary will give you the fathers' names. As the marriage is listed on LancashireBMD as "Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended" that may be your only access to the information.
I am not sure what the "Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended" means though? Do I still order from the GRO or somewhere else?? I so wish these Offices did digital copies as the time frame here is important for me too... I am doing an anniversary gift for a cousins' 50th and I saved their harder lines (and those that are not my own lines..) for last. This is proving to be a huge Mistake on my part as at every turn I am hitting couples like George & Elizabeth ....) :-\
Someone let me know about the ordering so I can get on it ASAP
Thank ALL I always am amazed at the sleuths here :D
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Order from the GRO - it's cheaper! LancashireBMD website, in the case of marriages, give the venue - so if it is a Church of England venue then it will be named, otherwise you will receive something like the entry I gave to you.
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Thanks BumbleB
Will get out the credit card and place the order with the GRO ... :)
Hopefully it will arrive in a week...
LUV
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I do agree that you should get the certificate. There are a couple of George Duttons of the right age and connection with Hulme so you need to be sure,.
However, I would be very surprised if that is not Elizabeth. In the census, she has the same, age and place of birth plus she is living in Blackpool!
If by any chance, it is the right family, Martha's place of birth varies so you will need to check her out.
Best wishes with the certificate.
Heywood
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Thank you Heywood
When I get it perhaps I will come back on here and share ;)
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I hope you do :)
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Hi there...I see you are searching for a George dutton circa hulme...I have a George born circa 1896 brother of Alexander Dutton that I can't locate in 19th century he was the son of George and fanny hurst who resided at hulme in 1891 census but we're in Salford by 1901 census...is there any connection..many thanks rach