RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jbml on Sunday 27 March 16 16:32 BST (UK)
-
You wonderful people have given me so much help with Michael Spooner - but I just wonder if I can trespass on your goodwill a little further in relation to his son Edgar. I am a bit reticent asking this, however, because all of the census entries I have for Edgar suggest that he was born in London. Nevertheless, the searchable online databases have no record of an Edgar Spooner baptized in London or Middlesex in about 1815; which makes me wonder whether he mightn't have been born in Colchester which is (we have established) where the his father came from.
Known facts:
Grandparents were Joseph Spooner and Mary [Knopp] Spooner, married by licence (Jospeh being a widower) in 1783.
Father was Michael Thomas Spooner, born 27 September 1785, baptized St Mary at the Walls, Colchester 11 November 1785.
I have not been able to identify a marriage for Michael Spooner using online search tools - I therefore presume that this too may have been in Colchester (or at least in Essex); and I therefore do not have his wife's name.
Edgar is said to have been 24 years old in the 1841 census; 38 years old in the 1851 census; is missing from the 1861 census (or at least, he has eluded my search efforts so far); is said to be 58 in the 1871 census and 68 in the 1881 census. A birth date of about 1815 therefore looks likely, and he is probably not the first child of the marriage.
The missing pieces to the jigsaw, therefore, which I hope will be found in the Colchester parish records, are:-
1. The marriage of Michael Spooner (probably about 1810)
2. The baptism of Edgar Spooner (probably about 1815) and
3. Baptisms of any siblings
I am now building up a sufficient number of Essex enquiries that a trip to ERO is starting to look like a decidedly attractive proposition - so I can certainly live without the answers for the time being. But if there is anyone with access to Essex records who's like to do a lookup for me and put me out of my misery here, I should be most grateful nonetheless.
-
Hi
I have looked at:-
St Mary at the walls bapt. 1812-1820 = no Spooners
St Runwald bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
St Peter bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
St Nicholas bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
St Michael, Mile End (Myland) bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
St Mary Magdalen bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
St Martin bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
St Margaret with St Michael, BERECHURCH bapt. 1813-1826 = no Spooners
St Leonard, Lexden bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
-
Wow! Thank you, essexbird ... that's a lot of searching. My misery continues ... but the range of possibilities is narrowing all the time. :)
-
Also checked
St Leonard bapt. 1813-1821 = no Spooners
St James bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
St Giles bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
All Saints (Includes parishioners of Colchester, St Botolph, to 1837.) bapt. 1813-1821
16/09/1820 Harriet daughter of John Rudland (Baker) & Maria Spooner
GREENSTEAD-JUXTA-COLCHESTER, ST. ANDREW bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
Holy Trinity bapt. 1813-1822 = no Spooners
-
In 1851 Michael Spooner the tailor said he was unmarried.
Have you got his death certificate? If so, who was the informant.
If Edgar Spooner is 38, 58, 68 on the 1851,71,81 census returns, that suggests a birth year around 1813. There is an "Edgar", not a common name then, baptized 4 April 1813, St Botolph Bishopsgate. Absolutely no other details, says went away without being registered.
He later used the name King. Whatever the reason, could that have been his mother's name? Perhaps she wasn't married to his father, who presumably was Michael Spooner.
If Edgar's birth is proving elusive, what about his death, when was that?
John
-
because all of the census entries I have for Edgar suggest that he was born in London. Nevertheless, the searchable online databases have no record of an Edgar Spooner baptized in London or Middlesex in about 1815;
Not all "London" parishes are online, though.
-
If Edgar Spooner is 38, 58, 68 on the 1851,71,81 census returns, that suggests a birth year around 1813.
If that was all there was, I agree.
But in 1841 his age is said to be 24, and in cases of discrepancy I always give greater weight to the evidence of an earlier census to a later (because vagueness increases over time). Ages in 1841 OUGHT to have been rounded down - but this one hasn't been. We can therefore be confident that in 1842 he THOUGHT he was 24 ... implying a birth year of around 1817.
I have taken the later census evidence into account in blurring this to "about 1815"
-
If Edgar's birth is proving elusive, what about his death, when was that?
John
Good question!
The last confirmed sighting of him is in the 1881 census: Edgar King, 68 year old widower, occupation Tailor, said to have been born in the City of London, living at 5 Fanshaw Street, Shoreditch with his 8 year old son by his third marriage John King. (London, Middlesex; Shoreditch RG11 Piece 394 Folio 113 page 56.) He assumed the name King after his wife abandoned him in 1860, presumably to conceal the fact that his third marriage - in 1863 - was almost certainly bigamous.
I do not have a death for him, but he was definitely dead by 30 October 1907, when his son (originally Thomas Escott Scott Spooner, but now calling himself Thomas King Spooner) remarried at the age of 50. The groom’s father is recorded on the marriage certificate as Edgar King Spooner (deceased) .
-
In 1851 Michael Spooner the tailor said he was unmarried.
Have you got his death certificate? If so, who was the informant.
Michael Spooner died in 1853. I have not yet obtained the death certificate, but it is beginning to look like a sensible acquisition.
-
reading with interest the comments on Edgar Spooner King it leads me to the question of his son Thomas born circa.1856 who shows on different forms to have been born either in Wicklow Ireland or Clerkenwell London can anyone shed some light?
-
I havent looked at your other query on Michael but noted these on FreeREG;
Marriages;
St Martin, Colchester, Essex
02 Mar 1783, Joseph SPOONER to Mary KNOPP, Licence. He signed, she used mark (does not say widr)
09 Jul 1786, Joseph SPOONER, Bachelor to Mary KING, Spinster. He signed, she used mark.
Grooms Parish St Botolphs**
Burial same Church;
10 Jul 1785, MARY Spooner, no extra details
Baptisms same Church;
29 Jul 1787 JOSEPH Spooner
09 May 1790 JAMES Spooner (birth 22 Nov 1788)
Parents JOSEPH/MARY
I noted your Michael Thomas was christened St Mary the Virgin at the Walls (+ siblings) on Familysearch.Org.
Just noting as there were 2 Joseph/Marys having children in same time frame in Essex.
-
thanks for your help.......possibly Mary King could be a forebear as no one in the family can pinpoint the origin of the family surname King-Spooner (I've updated my family tree with a question mark) thanks again
-
I was recently contacted by a distant and most helpful relative who has supplied details of the last years of Edgar (who now just used Edgar King as his name), apparently after the death of his 3rd wife he emigrated to Auckland, New Zealand on the 2nd January 1882 arriving on the ship "Wellington", he was followed there later by some of his children, Mary, Francis and Theresa. He started work by opening a small Sarsaparilla drinks store which was viewed back then as a health tonic before returning to his earlier trade of tailor/cutter, he died tragically in 1884 in his 72nd year after falling off the Otakia bridge over the river Taieri subsequently drowning, he was on his way to meet his family prior to catching a ship back to Auckland....
-
Hi, can I add to this discussion? I'm the distant relative referred to above. My line is from Michael Thomas Spooner's brother, Joseph Adams Spooner, born 17 April 1789, Colchester; married Mary Newby of Shenfield on 20 October 1812, St Magnus the Martyr and St Margaret Fish Street Hill, London. Mary died a widow at Ingatestone in 1856; Joseph was a sea captain/master mariner who disappears from Lloyd's shipping records about 1828. These two were my paternal 3x Gr Grandparents. I'm trying to establish who Michael and Joseph's parents were - Joseph Spooner and Mary ....... Knopp, King? I have small segment DNA matches to 2 descendants of Edgar Spooner-King or King-Spooner. Apart from what's already been discussed in previous postings on this subject, are there any other suggestions to help identify Michael and Joseph's parents?
-
Viv -
If you message me, I can give you everything I've got on the King-Spooner line (which is quite a lot), including a full account of how the King-Spooner name came about.
It's taken a LOT of work, and a massive amount of collaboration with other family members to tie all the pieces together ... but we're pretty much there now on the lines that we're jointly researching.
-
Viv 30 need two more posts before you can PM one another.
And welcome to Rootchat Viv.
Trish :)
-
If you are the person liaising with Griff then I have your contact details. If not, my mistake. I'd be very pleased to learn more about the King Spooner or Spooner King family line. I descend from another branch of the family and am trying to trace back beyond Michael Thomas Spooner and his brother Joseph Adams Spooner.
-
I am indeed, Viv.
I have your e-mail, and have replied with full extracts from my family notes, on all the ancestors I have been able to identify from Edgar Spooner (alias King, alias King-Spooner) back up the line.