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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Redroger on Thursday 24 March 16 19:52 GMT (UK)
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Was born at Great Steeping in 1860. I am anxious to find out who her parents were. She also died in Great Steeping the same year. I have attempted to find the Great Steeping records on Lincs to the past, but am unable to access them. If anyone is visiting Lincolnshire archives I would be very grateful if they could look at the baptisms and burials Great Steeping for 1860. Thanks very much.
The parents I am looking for are Richard Luffman and Elizabeth nee Bierley.
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Looking at the 1861 census, Ann could well have been the illeg daughter of Betsey LUFFMAN (22, Ashby) who was granddaughter of Ellenor LEEMAN. They were in Great Steeping.
Betsey may have been the daughter of the widowed William LUFFMAN (43?, Alford) who was son in law of Ellenor.
In 1851, the same household was
Ellen LEEMAN 60 Saleby
William LUFFMAN 33 (wid) Gt Steeping
Ann LUFFMAN 11 Ashby
Elizabeth LUFFMAN was next door, a servant for Benjamin LEEMAN.
1841
Wm LUFFMAN 20
Rebbeca 20
Elizth 3
Ann 1
Wm LUFFMAN married Rebecca LEEMAN at GS 20 Mar 1837.
In 1861, Ann LUFFMAN 22 was a servant in Ashby. Obviously, she is in the frame to be the mother of the deceased Ann. :)
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Was born at Great Steeping in 1860. I am anxious to find out who her parents were. She also died in Great Steeping the same year. I have attempted to find the Great Steeping records on Lincs to the past, but am unable to access them. If anyone is visiting Lincolnshire archives I would be very grateful if they could look at the baptisms and burials Great Steeping for 1860. Thanks very much.
The parents I am looking for are Richard Luffman and Elizabeth nee Bierley.
If you don't have a birth certificate (which would tell you her parent's names), and you haven't been able to find a baptism or burial for her, how can you quote these details about Ann with such conviction?
Great Steeping baptisms 1719-1949 are on FreeREG. Burials end at 1839.
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Hi Pam :)
The burial is in the NBI age 0.
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There are some in Luffmans there in 1864 and 1866 but they lived in Monksthorpe.
In 1868, there is an illegitimate son, William Henry Rhodes, of Ann Luffman of Great Steeping. The same mother?
David
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Hi Pam :)
The burial is in the NBI age 0.
Thanks Geoff. :)
Presumably in Great Steeping.
But depending on the date of burial she could have been born in 1859, Depends what source RR is quoting. Possibly the NBI because he hasn't said 'Ann was x days/months old when she died' - a fact which is usually included in the burial registers.
Actually birth registration Anne Luffman, Spilsby registration district Mar quarter 1860 (so possibly born end of 1859); death registration Spilsby registration district September quarter 1860 (could have died end of June).
Being totally pedantic, unless RR gets the birth certificate, or finds a baptism (which even then will only give her place of abode at the date of baptism) there is no proof that Ann was born in Great Steeping. It's not the only place in Spilsby registration district. :)
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/spilsby.html
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Many thanks all. To keep it short they are all related both to each other and to me. We all descend from John Luffman Of the Somerset Militia who left the unit and married at Alford in 1797.
The information i was working on Pam was provided by Geoff last November only just got round to it. William Henry Rhoads Luffman was brought up by my grandfather Richard and his first wife Elizabeth. They seem to have had no children of their own apart from possibly Ann. Looks as though I shall have to buy the certificate to lay this ghost.
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Hi Pam :)
The burial is in the NBI age 0.
Thanks Geoff. :)
Presumably in Great Steeping.
But depending on the date of burial she could have been born in 1859, Depends what source RR is quoting. Possibly the NBI because he hasn't said 'Ann was x days/months old when she died' - a fact which is usually included in the burial registers.
Actually birth registration Anne Luffman, Spilsby registration district Mar quarter 1860 (so possibly born end of 1859); death registration Spilsby registration district September quarter 1860 (could have died end of June).
Being totally pedantic, unless RR gets the birth certificate, or finds a baptism (which even then will only give her place of abode at the date of baptism) there is no proof that Ann was born in Great Steeping. It's not the only place in Spilsby registration district. :)
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/spilsby.html
Going back some years I know, but after a variety of distrctions (including major cancer sugery) I am now trying to resolve this once and for all. For some reason the Great Steeping records at Lincolnshire archives remain inaccessible, otherwise I would have searched them for 1859 and 60, without troubling my friends on Rootschat. Notwithstanding your remarks about there being other places in the Spilsby RD other than Great Steeping one the balance of probabilities it is likely that my grandfather, Richard Luffman lived there at the time along with his first wife Elizabeth. They had no surviving children together, in fact Ann is the only possible child that I hav encountered. The problems seem to have rested with Elizabeth in one form or another since after her death in 1893 Richard remarried at the age of 66, and had two children, my Aunt Ida (Lucy Ida Kathleen) (b1895) and my father Sydney Harold (b1899). If Ann was in fact the daughter of Richard and Elizabeth then she was my half Aunt. Had she lived things might have been very different, I or Richard's grandson in another dimension so to speak would have been some 35 years older, and I personally would never have existed which many might find highly desirable! I have reopened this since I am now trying harder than ever to tie up the loose ends in my tree. Hope someone visits Lincolnshire ARchive regularly.
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Well since you were last looking at this in 2016 we now have the GRO index with mother's maiden name - or in Anne's case no mother's maiden name, so she does appear to be illegitimate
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Well at least that ties the loose end. I never had a half Aunt about 40 years older than my father.
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Hi Roger, :)
If you really want to know Ann's mother (and possibly, though he's unlikely to be mentioned, father) then you have no alternative but to send for a copy of the birth certificate. Black-and-white PDF copies can be obtained from the GRO for £7, which is a bit cheaper than £11 for a fancy pink one.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
As Mabel has said, with no mother's maiden name detailed in the GRO Index, then it would seem that Ann was illegitimate.
I checked FreeREG for Luffman (+ Soundex) in Lincolnshire 1859 and 1860.
Two entries.
No baptisms.
One for a marriage of Elizabeth Luffman.
The other, burial of Ann Luffman, infant, 18 July 1860, in Great Steeping.
Person burial abode; Alford.
There are some Luffmans living in Alford in 1861, but I didn't investigate further.
Nor I have checked to see if there was a workhouse in Alford where baby Ann could have been living, and died.
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Pam, Thanks for looking. The Luffmans first came to Alford via John Luffman (my 2 great grandfather) who came up with the Somerset Fencible Militia and left the unit in Alford to marry.Those living in Alford in 1861 are my father's uncles, aunts and cousins. I have met some of their descendants who 20 years ago lived in Boston, the familial likenesses were quite amazing. My grandfather, Richard Luffman (1828-1903) was living in Steeping with his first wife Elizabeth Bierley in 1861. He now worked for the Great Northern Railway as a platelayer, so I am a third generation railwayman.It is now apparent that he had no children with Elizabeth, Ann was the last hope so to speak, a perinatal death or possibly stilborn.
On the subject of illegitimacy, William Henry Rhoades Luffman was born in 1863, the son of Ann Luffman(1840-1868) and a farmer's son Henry Rhoades.After Ann's death in 1868 William was brought up by Richard Luffman (my grandfather) and Elizabeth his then wife as their son, which when I first started muddied the waters for a while. He married in 1885 in Boston, worked on the railway and was subsequently employed by the GNR as a signalman at Bentley Crossing Doncster, coincidently with a mile of where I lived from 1965 to 2007. As they say, its a small world.
To resume the main thread Elizabeth Luffman (nee Bierley) died in 1894 and my grandfather was remarried at the age of 66 to my future grandmother Laetitia Burton (1859-1901), my Aunt Ida, was born 6 months after the marriage, and my father Sydney Harold was born in 1899 by which time his father was 71! Fortunately I think that is all there is to say, again, thanks for looking.
Roger