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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lasswade on Wednesday 23 March 16 02:09 GMT (UK)

Title: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: lasswade on Wednesday 23 March 16 02:09 GMT (UK)
May I ask for help please with the following:

I am looking for records of Arthur James Gaw (age 33)and his sister-in-law Amy Lucy Barlow (age19) - shown on the 1911 census as living at 16 Thorp Rd Newton Heath and being employed at the Railway Coy (Company?).

Arthur was a coach finisher and Amy was a linen worker.

Thanks, Bea.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: barryd on Wednesday 23 March 16 02:38 GMT (UK)
Possibly here is Arthur's Employer: Look at the last line of the sub heading "Livery"

Also look at the small photographs on the right. Your ancestor may have worked on/seen the very carriage that is shown with man/woman about to get on board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_and_Yorkshire_Railway
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: Barbara.H on Wednesday 23 March 16 09:47 GMT (UK)
Amy Lucy Barlow may have worked at the Tootal Mill on Ten Acres Lane. They made linen handkerchiefs, ties and so on there. If you go on Street View and look at the junction of Bower Street and Ten Acres Lane, the building is still standing
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Ten_Acres_Mill,_Newton_Heath

 :) Barbara

Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: jaybelnz on Wednesday 23 March 16 10:13 GMT (UK)
Ancestry have employment records for the Manchester, Lincoln and Sheffield Railway.  Not sure if they will have the years you are looking for, but I picked up 3 records for my great great grandfather mid 1800's. I've just tried a couple of times, but for some reason can't log in.  I'll have another go in the morning for you!  Maybe they're just a bit busy at the moment!

Jeanne
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 23 March 16 10:24 GMT (UK)
Nothing is showing up on Railway records.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: mazi on Wednesday 23 March 16 11:20 GMT (UK)
In 1911 Newton Heath was the main carriage and wagon building factory of the Lancashire and Yorkshire railway.
Railway works were pretty much separate from the running of the railway, I would think the works records have survived somewhere, I will have a hunt

Mike
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: mazi on Wednesday 23 March 16 11:24 GMT (UK)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/a0f9dff1-a06b-47a3-bd7e-fe41b01a3064

If I read it correctly they might be here.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: Barbara.H on Wednesday 23 March 16 11:58 GMT (UK)
My gt-uncle was a coach trimmer and his father a clerk, both working for the LYR at Newton Heath. Sadly I have never found either of them in any of the online railway records. Hope you have better luck!

 :) Barbara
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 23 March 16 14:43 GMT (UK)
That makes a change, some really good photos of Thorp Road can be seen on the images website and with a good map you could work out which is No 16

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

Sadly the road looks nothing like it did back then

BF   
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: lasswade on Thursday 24 March 16 03:06 GMT (UK)
hello all,

Thanks for the replies... and I look forward to the photos and research. There seemed to be so many railway companies in Manchester at the time that I did not know where to start. I was also unable to find any record on Ancestry.

I had hoped to find some info on Amy Lucy Barlow, DOB, etc. She was unknown to me until I saw that census and I cannot find any BMD records on her. If she was Arthur Gaw's sister-in-law, she had to be Edith Maud Gaw (Barlow)'s sister.

The original 1911 census scan looks very clear, I cannot imagine it being an error.

Edith's parents were Thomas Barlow and Alice Shorrocks - their history is quite chequered as they were often foul of the law in the late 1880s.

Can anyone suggest where else to look?

Thanks for the help, Bea.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Thursday 24 March 16 08:08 GMT (UK)
This is an aside really.
There is a tree which has a Thomas Leopold Barlow as a brother to Edith Maud but his father is not Thomas. The tree might be yours.
Do you have Thomas' birth certificate?

In the meantime, I will continue looking for Amy Lucy. :)

When you say they fell foul of the law, do you have any dates or areas to place them.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Thursday 24 March 16 08:51 GMT (UK)
There is a baptism for Amy Lucy Barlow 9 months in September 1891 at Redbank Wesleyan Methodist, Cheetham, Manchester with parents John and Alice. :-\
The address is Tranmere, Cheshire  ???

Not sure re this.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Thursday 24 March 16 09:53 GMT (UK)
I found the 1883 offences.

Do you have any of the family in 1891 and 1901?

I see John Frederick Barlow gives his aunt Elizabeth as next of kin when he joins up as a boy soldier and she is in the Workhouse.
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Friday 25 March 16 09:27 GMT (UK)
Hello again,

I have looked at previous posts and Thomas' military record where he gives his sister's address as Thorpe Rd.
As Edith gives her father as Thomas, a soldier and Thomas gives his father as John, a Bricklayer perhaps they both didn't want to acknowledge him for some reason.
I do wonder then about the baptism of Amy Lucy with parents John and Alice. Maybe, Thomas is using a different name or by that time Alice is alone.
I think you say, you have the siblings in 1891. Where are they please?

Heywood
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: lasswade on Friday 25 March 16 13:52 GMT (UK)
hello Heywood, and thank you for all your searching...

I have been unable to positively locate the siblings in 1891, but  there are some possibles.

There is 1 John Barlow, a boarder and grocer in Ardwick, and I found an Edith Maud in Cheshire, living with 2 Misses Molyneaux, I think Edith was described as a niece but now I cannot find it again. You mentioned Cheshire, about Amy Lucy?

Thomas Leopold is unfindable, heaven knows where he was. He was born in Crumpsall Workhouse, 1886, and disappears again in the census until 1901, where it seems he was in the Tulketh Home for Working Catholic Boys.

I lost track also of the parents, Thomas Snr.and Alice, except in 1891 there was an Alice Barlow in 126 Charter St, St George. She was listed as a wife and a charwoman and the age is correct. Between gaol times, they spent some time in different workhouses. The name of Thomas Barlow comes up many times in later workhouse records, but it's such a common name, I cannot feel sure.

Thomas Barlow (the father) was the son of John Barlow, and perhaps used his name after the disgrace of the crimes. This makes sense to me. I noticed that both Edith and Thomas Jnr. denied him on their marriage certificates. He was in fact a bookbinder, not a bricklayer or a soldier. I have not been able to trace him beyond his last conviction.

I saw that note on Thomas Jnr.'s attestation, giving his sister's address - does that mean he was living at the same place? This makes me think the children must have had knowledge of each other, I had sort of imagined them scattered and homeless through their parents' troubles.

I think it must be my tree showing Thomas Leopold, but his father is listed as Thomas and his mother as Alice Shorrocks.

I have the later details of the children's marriages and family, but Amy Lucy is new.

All the best, Bea.





Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: heywood on Friday 25 March 16 14:54 GMT (UK)
Hello Bea,

Yes I think Thomas' sister's address would be his last address/next of kin.

I was glad to see that you had the birth certificate with Alice's name as the newspaper report gives a couple of aliases for her which made me doubt the Shorrocks marriage info.

I have checked the address re Amy for 1891 and will do so again but I think it was a single occupant, an Irish lady.

I had also seen the reference to the Catholic home for Thomas but not sure - why Catholic? Why Preston? There is, I think I also  a Manchester Barlow family in Preston ** just checked they don't have a son Thomas so that one still in the running!

I also saw that Edith with two aunts but it is Upholland and I think she was born there so possibly not her. ** just checked- definitely not her. She is in 1881 with her family.

I have looked for Aunt Elizabeth but lose her too after a couple of censuses!

They did seem to like hiding.  ;)
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: lasswade on Sunday 27 March 16 03:40 BST (UK)
Hi Heywood,

I think they hide from crime, easier to do then than now.

Thomas a Catholic? Maybe because as a Protestant he would not have been admitted and I believe at 14 years old he may have had nowhere to be.

Tomas was adaptable, at least he made his circumstances sometimes adapt to his requirements.  The surgeon's errand boy part of the census rings true, he always had an interest in how medicine worked and seemed to profess and pursue a little medical knowledge.

Family info also said that he spent time in an institution with Catholic brothers - not a happy time at all. It was either there or at the workhouse the inmates were fed a type rice pudding before dinner so they were so full they did not miss a reasonable meal. All hearsay of course.

This family had an Aunt Elizabeth - I saw that census entry but didn't connect the address with a workhouse. Elizzabeth was the sister of Thomas Snr who married Alice. I have not yet begun on Th. Snr's siblings but will after Easter.

I am very grateful for your help,

Bea.

Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: Sean William Liddell on Sunday 27 March 16 04:51 BST (UK)
Baptism: 26 Oct 1845 Edgworth Wesleyan Methodist Church, Edgworth, Lancs.
Thomas Barlow - [Child] of James Barlow & Alice
    Abode: Edgworth
    Notes: Age when Baptized seven weeks & 3 days
    Baptised by: Isaac Denison
    Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1882, Page 8, Entry 14
    Source: LDS Film 1966747
Title: Re: manchester 'railway coy' search?
Post by: Sean William Liddell on Sunday 27 March 16 04:54 BST (UK)
Baptism: 18 Nov 1827 Chapel, Edenfield, Lancashire, England
Alice Shorrock - Daughter of Meadowcroft Shorrock & Mary
    Born: 19 Oct 1827
    Abode: Rawtenstall
    Occupation: Cotton Spinner
    Baptised by: J.C.
    Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1845 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 4 & 5, Entry 31
    Source: LDS Film 1545475