RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: thistlebay on Wednesday 16 March 16 09:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to find if the above named had a will when he died. I have emailed the probate court in NSW and they tell me they have done a quick search for him but they can't find a probate will for him. So this would mean he died intestate, but they sent me a link to another gov party, to see if they have details or maybe he made a will but it wasn't granted etc and they sent me a 10 page form to fill in, its very confusing so wondered if anyone has an idea how to go about checking this out.
John Edward Blake was born March 1881 in Adrigole, Cork, Ireland and was called over to Gundagai, Gilmore, NSW by his aunt in c1908 when her husband died and for John to work the farm she owned.
John inherited the farm when his aunt died in 1935. John died in 1951 age 72 of a heart attack I am told. I do know that his brother William still living in Cork was receiving some kind of payments from either John's estates or from an administrator of his estate but these payments ceased (I believe) just before William died in 1955.
My question is what were the payments for and from whom after John Edward Blake died. I know that John lived with a Julia Blake who was about 10 years his senior and was was his cousin (Julia's father was the stepbrother of the aunt of John), so really Julia was John's half cousin??
Julia survived John but died in Dec 1953. There is a probate for Julia but I haven't yet ordered that. Julia's siblings died after her. Julia had one sister named Ellen who married Mr Begg and had 3 daughters. Ellen died in 1971.
This is all the more confusing as I found that Julia's father John Galway Blake died in 1880 age 55 in Gundagai, and the will was, it says, granted in 1881, but then it states (DBN granted Sept 1974) which is nearly 100 years after John Galway Blake's death. His wife Ellen died in 1920 in Gundagai.
John Galway Blake's grandson Edward John (not to be confused with John Edward) who outlived all the family bar his sister, died in 1973 and his probate was granted in Aug 1974, the same year as his grandfather's (is this a coincidence?). Edward John's sister Theresa Blake died in 1983 but can't find out where, she never married. I cant find a probate for her either.
So can anyone tell me where/who I enquire to to find out if John Edward Blake died intestate and also why the above 2 probates were granted in same year when deaths were nearly 100 years apart.
Many thanks in advance.
Catherine
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Hi Catherine,
You can search for most NSW probates here http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/ But there is an annoying gap in the probates index 1891-c1927 which can only be checked on microfiche at SRO.
I try to get there about once a month to photo probates etc for rootschatters so I can photograph
Julia's for you.
Let me see if I can find any others ...
regards,
Ros
adding : Edward John BLAKE
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1488718
Julia BLAKE
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\839421
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Hi Catherine was John's Aunt, Emily BLAKE died Goulburn NSW 1935?
Neil
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Hi Ros
Yes, I have found a few probate packets but never actually purchased any as yet. That would be great if you could do that Ros!! Thank you so much for offering. I look forward to anything you can find out about any of the ones I mentioned. I didn't realise there was a huge gap in those years either. The Edward John Blake and Theresa Blake I mentioned were the grandchildren of John Galway Blake and Ellen Norton both born in Gundagai. The parents of Edward and Theresa was Samuel Blake and Matilda Battye. Samuel married, b1877 d1961, Gundagai. Samuel's sister Julia single, b1869 d1953, Redfern (this is the one mentioned on earlier msg), sister Ellen Begg married, b1873 d1971 in Lismore, brother James single, b1871 d1966, Gundagai, Charles think single, b1879 d1970, Gundagai.
Obviously I'm not asking you to research more than one of these but if you do come across any of them, please let me know. The main ones are Julia Blake and John Edward Blake.
Thanks once more. People really are so kind and helpful on rootschat!
Regards
Catherine
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here is an obit to John in case you don't have it http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article145579391
here is index to intestate cases http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=53&new=1
Probates after 1976 can only be found on microfiche index at SRO - I can check when I am there
regards
Ros
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Hi Catherine was John's Aunt, Emily BLAKE died Goulburn NSW 1935?
Neil
Hi Neil
No I'm sorry John's aunt was Elizabeth Blake who married a Richard Marshall in Gundagai.
Regards
Catherine
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here is an obit to John in case you don't have it http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article145579391
here is index to intestate cases http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=53&new=1
Probates after 1976 can only be found on microfiche index at SRO - I can check when I am there
regards
Ros
Hi again Ros,
No I hadn't seen this so thanks so much for that, very interesting.
I just checked the intestate and couldn't find him on that list so I have no idea what could have happened to his assets but I wonder who was sending over paychecks to his brother William. He had 4 siblings though but only mentions William, sister Elizabeth Cole in USA and his sister Margaret Reardon who he travelled out to NSW with in first place. Margaret was single when they arrived but married around 1917 in Gundagai, his sister Mary died in 1943 in USA single and no children.
Anyway thanks Ros I really appreciate anything you can find.
Regards
Catherine
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Hi Catherine,
I'm happy to photograph anything we find :)
But it's late now and I'm fading fast .... :( I'll look again in the morning.
And I'm sure others will find more too. :)
cheers,
Ros
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Hi Ros,
I'm sure you must be shattered, it must be around gone 11pm, don't worry I can wait and thank you.
:)
Catherine
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Hi, I am trying to find if the above named had a will when he died. I have emailed the probate court in NSW and they tell me they have done a quick search for him but they can't find a probate will for him. So this would mean he died intestate,
No, it does not mean he died Intestate. In NSW it is possible that there's a valid will and that the solicitor that prepared that will has assisted in the administration of that deceased estate in accordance with that will, without the need to seek to have the will proven. The solicitor would be acting with the full knowledge of the executor and beneficiaries. Probate Courts prove. Executors administer. Beneficiaries receive benefits.
Cheers, JM
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I see similar processes in Victoria, too
http://www.supremecourt.vic.gov.au/home/forms+fees+and+services/wills+and+probate/grants+of+probate+and+administrationof+deceased+estates/
Sometimes these tasks can be done informally, without requiring anything from the Court. In some instances, however, it may be necessary to obtain a grant of probate or letters of administration (collectively referred to as grants of representation) before these duties can be completed
Cheers, JM
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Made a phone call to check my grey cells recollections.
DBN is latin abbreviation. de bonis non
It basically means that although the 1881 Grant permitted administration, there was no administration undertaken back then, OR it was never finalised. So a new grant was obtained in 1974.
ADD
Here's wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_bonis_non_administratis
......John Galway Blake died in 1880 age 55 in Gundagai, and the will was, it says, granted in 1881, but then it states (DBN granted Sept 1974) which is nearly 100 years after John Galway Blake's death. .........
John Galway Blake's grandson Edward John (not to be confused with John Edward) who outlived all the family bar his sister, died in 1973 and his probate was granted in Aug 1974, the same year as his grandfather's (is this a coincidence?). .......
Unlikely to be a coincidence, but perhaps not discovered until the distribution granted Aug 1974 found the flaw, and they immediately applied for the orders that were granted the next month (Sept 1974). There will likely be an explanation in the file.
Cheers, JM
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Here is an obit to Mrs Milton Reardon
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144404673
And there are several obits to Ellen BLAKE
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article123492612
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article105974541
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article122441849
This is probate for Margaret Anne REARDON
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\658922
Ros
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Obits to Elizabeth MARSHALL - what a marvellous lady !
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article135141468
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article146507009
and http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article104507483
probate http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\551515
Ros
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Probate for Samuel Augustus BLAKE died 1961
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1028975
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Wow! Thanks to Ros and JM for all your hard work, waking up to find all this research has me feeling so thankful of all the wonderful people out there.
Gosh so many probates and no I didn't realise that a person didn't necessarily die intestate if a will wasn't proven and granted.
So the will of John Galway Blake died 1880 although it says it was granted in 1881, it appears it wasn't wholly claimed? So it was claimed much later when his grandson died and that's when it came to light, possibly because the grandson lived on the estate, and it was passed down the male line.
Yes, Elizabeth Marshall was a great lady, worked very hard with her husband. I had seen those obits of both Elizabeth and of Ellen Blake. I didn't know there was a probate of Margaret Reardon though. I don't know anything about the brother in Dublin though, she only had 2 brothers, John who went to Australia with her and William who stayed in Cork. Maybe a misprint. She died quite young though.
Thanks to both of you for all your help on this topic.
Regards
Catherine
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A pleasure to help Catherine :)
JM, if a will was written, even though it didn't go to probate, would it still appear in the NSW will book?
What a pity I don't have an FindMyPast subscription to check ... :( (but yes I can look on microfilm when I am there)
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The NSW Will Book is based on the NSW Supreme Court files. To the best of my knowledge, there's no NSW resource that holds files for deceased estates that were administered without being proven at NSW Supreme Court, Probate Division.
Find My Past has a current partnership arrangement with NSW State Records. NSW Supreme Court's archives are held at NSW State Records. The Will Books are described at FindMyPast :
Hundreds of thousands of New South Wales wills, dating from 1800 to 1952, (with most dating from 1846), are available to search online for the very first time.
These records are copies of original Will Books held by the State Records Authority of New South Wales. Between 1800 and 1924, the copies of the wills were handwritten, whereas between 1924 and 1952 the copies were typed. In 1952 the copies were altered to photocopies.
Once probate was granted for a will, meaning that it had been validated as genuine, the will was then deposited with the Registrar of the Probate Office. The original will and its accompanying documents were then held in Probate packets (NRS 13660), which were restricted to family members of the deceased or their legal representatives. However, from roughly 1800 onwards, copies of the wills were held in the Will Books.
The New South Wales Wills Books includes some wills of those in other states and countries, typically in cases where the individual was a resident of New South Wales but their last place of residence was outside the state. In other cases, people who lived elsewhere may have lodged their will in New South Wales despite not living there, particularly if they had property or shares in the state.
The Supreme Court of New South Wales divided both Will Books and Probate packets into series. The series of Will Books are:
Series 1 – approximately 1800 – May 1873
Series 2 – 1873 – 1876
Series 3 – 1876 – approximately 1890
Series 4 – approximately 1890 – 1985
Each series consists of volumes containing copies of original wills, all arranged numerically. It remains unclear why these records were divided and categorised into series.
Accompanying documentation to these wills can sometimes involve codicils such as additions or revocations to the will.
Original data: NRS 13661, Will Books 1800-1952, Microfilm, 343 reels
;D ;D Ros, you will need to take sleeping bag, pillow etc, 343 reels .... ;D ;D ;D ;D you will need to remember to fill in your 2016 form with details of where you slept on the night of Tuesday 9 August 2016 .... hope it is not at the Archives. ::) :P
The handwritten entries in the Will Books post WWI http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=712430.0 .... and the cricket connections :)
ADD
http://search-cloudfront.records.nsw.gov.au/series/13661
Cheers, JM
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Aaaargh! :o
Thanks JM :) I'm not good with microfilm anyway so would take years. :( Yes I know there are only 4 permutations of ways to load the reels but it still takes me 12 or so attempts before I manage it.
I wonder when FindMyPast will have another free weekend :) :D
Very interesting about the cricketers :)
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Hi Ros and JM
Another wow on all that info! Its very interesting and I agree, I hate reels of films too! So when you say they are logged numerically JM, for instance I would need the Series 4, the wills are not kept in date order but the number issued to the will at the time? So wills that were not administered and granted could still be in the will books? Does this also mean that ALL wills made had to be registered? Yes very interesting about the cricketers.
I don't have a Findmypast sub either :( but did make use of the free weekend a few short weeks ago but alas I didn't know about wills on there, so yes, I'll just have to wait for that free weekend again. There is still free Irish parish records on Ancestry.com at the moment too which have been great, before now you had to go into the Irish Archives online and search through hundreds of them to find what you needed but they are now in the process of transcribing them so you just enter name of person you are searching for and hey presto, there it is! This offer is on til I think, end of this month.
Thanks to both once more.
Catherine
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I just took a quick look at findmypast will books to see if I could find John Edward Blake death 1952 (even though I wouldn't be able to access the record) and nothing is coming up for him so maybe he didn't write a will after all.
Regards
Catherine
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The NSW Supreme Court does NOT have wills that were NOT presented for Probate. The Will Books do NOT contain wills UNLESS they were already proven by the NSW Supreme Court.
The NSW State Records reels are allocated NSW State Records reference numbers by the staff at NSW State Records.
I cannot find where I wrote that they are logged numerically. But I can assure you that the Archives Investigator's search engine finds the Probate Packets by keyword.
In NSW when a deceased estate did NOT NEED to be proven, it was not presented for probate at the NSW Supreme Court. In those instances, if a solicitor had held that will, then the solicitor would likely assist/oversee the administration of the estate by the executor named in that will. The solicitor would likely retain all the paperwork, including the will. Those files are not public records, so are NOT normally lodged with the NSW State Archives.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks for clarifying JM.
So if a will did not need to be proven, probate was not needed? Its all very confusing for me about probate etc. So the executor, if close to the deceased would probably also have a copy of the will and then inform the solicitor of the death. So in this particular case, it is likely that the relative he lived with would have been the executor of his will, if, he made one?
So it really is unlikely I will find the will even if there was one made by the deceased.
On another note, I wonder if you could answer another question for me JM?
There was a property sold in 1941 in Gundagai, I'm not sure what the situation was when the company took possession and why, but the Permanent Trustee Co Ltd, took possession of the property in November 1940 and they sold the property in March 1941, is there any way of finding out the details of this sale at all, ie, who sold it to the company and who eventually bought it from the company?
Kind regards
Catherine
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Sorry but one more question.
I just re-read the will of the aunt who died who actually owned the property I just spoke of, but I thought she had left this property to her nephew John Blake, maybe not, maybe this property was the one which had to be sold under the terms of Elizabeth's will. She does state in her will that John Edward lives with her (the will was written in 1926) and that she has already transferred to him a farm worth approximately £4000. So it could be that it was a different place other than 'The Elms' that she gave him, The Elms being the property sold in 1941.
It states on the front of the will, probate was granted to Norman Baylis Mackenzie one of the executors appointed under the will and codicil. Thomas Sullivan on the executors renounced probate and Ralph Mate Thompson the other executor predeceased the testatrix.
Does this mean that Thomas Sullivan renounced his authority as executor?
I am now beginning to wonder if this is the estate which Elizabeth wanted converted into money to be shared as soon as possible after her death, but if that is case, why did it take over 5 years to sell it from her death in 1935 to it being sold in 1941?
Any ideas?
Catherine
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Do you just have her will Catherine? Or the whole probate packet? The probate packet should give details of the properties she owned and the value of each.
But I would have expected that the will made very clear what was to happen to each property....?
I can photograph her probate packet too if you don't have it.
regards
Ros
(adding : planning to go on Monday)
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Hi there,
Ros is offering to photograph the entire Probate Packet, and I agree it is very likely that will provide answers to your questions.
In rural NSW, in the 20th century, if a solicitor drew up a will, it is likely that the solicitor held the original document. The executor did not need to be related to the deceased, (and still does not need to be related). "Probate" is the court order that "proves" at law that a Will is valid. A Will can of course be valid without needing a court to prove it is valid.
https://www.lawsociety.com.au/community/publicationsandfaqs/BeinganExecutor/index.htm
In rural NSW, these small communities were frequently catching up with each other via activities such as Sunday Church services, Hospital Board Meetings, Pastures Protection Board meetings, District Ambulance Volunteers, Fire Brigade, etc. (Add : Sales Yards, Mail contractor deliveries including groceries, medicines etc not just postal articles, School children bringing messages, )
The death of a community member would have become known very quickly .... "Word of Mouth" .... (ADD .... don't forget that in NSW, Doctor needed to sign off on cause of death before the funeral director could proceed, so various experienced people involved in the practical issues, and usually just one or two funeral directors in a township, so they would communicate with each other in a commonsense way, without needing to ask for written authority from the next of kin before hand. Solicitors and/or clergy would often be called on to inform extended family of the death, and would be able to provide funeral arrangements. )
Cheers, JM
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This has certainly been a very interesting post. Hopefully the probate packet will be a juicy one, full of detailed information to answer some of the probing questions. Please post an update on the forum for those following with great interest.
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Hi again All,
In answer to your question Ros, yes, I do have the will of Elizabeth Marshall nee Blake but not the full packet, it was written up on 4/2/1926. I also have her death cert, she died 30th June 1935 of bronchitis and senility aged (it states her age as 98 but she was really 94) she was born August 1841 and bpt 10/8/1841. She had no children. That would be great if you photograph the full packet Ros thank you so much for offering to do this for me, that's great news, whenever you're able to get there, Monday sounds great though.
This is what I can't find out, it states in the will that she is living with her nephew John Blake, and that would have been at The Elms in 1926 I presume, but states in the will that she has already transferred a farm to John worth £4000, so I don't know if it was the Elms that she transferred or another property. Apparently she bought a small holding next to Gilmore Creek when she was a little older. I can find John and his relative Julia on the 1943 electoral roll together in Gilmore, but I can't find John Edward after this, but, I found Julia living in 1949 living in Flower Hill with her brother James and nephew Edward John, this is definitely not John Edward by mistake. John Edward didn't die til 1951 so where was he? I believe he liked a drink, I don't know how true this is, but this is family heresay, and that he set fire to his house and went to live with Julia but I can't find any information on that incident, and as far as I can see throughout all those years from around 1930 John Edward is living with Julia in Gilmore. On the 1930 Elizabeth Marshall is living in Windowie Gilmore but can't find Elizabeth living in just Gilmore with John and Julia prior to 1930! This gets more and more intriguing. There is a mention of a property in the will which says it is to be sold by the Trustees and divided amongst various family members etc, I am not sure if this would have been The Elms or not though, which I know was sold in 1941 but have no details of the sale.
Thanks JM, so why would a will need to be proved at all?? If after a number of years maybe the executors have died or maybe they dont' know if the will is the last will made so there is some confusion as to whether it is a valid will, would these be valid reasons to have it proven or maybe someone is contesting the will I presume?
Yes, I will definitely post an update as and when more info is obtained cupoflife.
Regards and thanks to all once more.
Catherine
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"The Elms" up for auction in 1936
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139304198
Here it says "the Elms" was purchased by J BLAKE in 1936
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article104228600
Here it says "the Elms" is up for auction 1940
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138991400
In 1937 John BLAKE is charged with failing to control rabbits on "the Elms"
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139295860
In 1940 "the Elms" is in trouble for not ear-marking sheep (or similar), property owned by J. BLAKE (but the person responsible was Milton Manns). So he has a manager? And lives elsewhere?
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138991817
adding :
Sounds like a beautiful property :)
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I have been the named co-executor for a number of deceased estates, mainly within my family, but also for a former neighbour. Usually the other exec has been a family member also. I have not ever sought to have these probated, basically because the Wills provided clear directions as to how the estates were to be administered by the beneficiaries, and all the real property involved has been without any encumberances, and the beneficiaries had been aware of the Testators' wishes for many years, as these matters had been discussed by the Testators with the beneficiaries. So the people who were to receive x and y and z from their family member knew what was what and who would make sure and the practicalities etc, beforehand.
It is important to remember that death duties at federal level were abolished in the late 1970s and NSW followed in the early 1980s. One of the functions of Probate results in an accurate valuation of the Deceased Estate at a known point in time.
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/act+13+1898+cd+0+N
http://www.legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/guides/wills_estates/tax.html
ADD
Some of my living older generation have contacted me after reading my replies here and one in particular has asked me to add "And once it is all sorted and distributed the solicitor who drew up the will should be given letters from each beneficiary confirming that the executor has completed the tasks involving them, in a 'timely and goodly' way"
('timely and goodly' ! wow .... now I am left wondering ..... does 'goodly' have a formal definition in accordance with the NSW law http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ia1987191/ or in the colonial act http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/iao1897n4237.pdf ::) or just be a word used within rural NSW circles of people born around 100 years ago ! )
Cheers, JM
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Good morning Ros and JM
Thank you Ros for all your help in obtaining all the info for me. Thanks also to JM for all his advice on my dithering knowledge of probates etc. The 'goodly and timely' was absolutely not possible in this particular case. The case dragged on and on due to John Edward trying to buy The Elms over a period of nearly 4 years whereby it was then repossessed if that is the term to be used. He paid £450 deposit to buy the property and land in 1936, he paid another £1600 as part payment around 1937/8 (still have to go through dates again) but couldn't raise the remainder of £2550 and so it was taken from him and sold at auction in 1941. They retained the deposit from him to pay fees accumulated and believe me, there were such massive fees to pay between the solicitor and the PT and other bodies, mainly the solicitor involved though. They gave him back £700 of the £1600 he had paid part payment, I don't know why, as the fees did not cost anything like that amount of £1350. It states he lived in Windowie, I know that is where Elizabeth Marshall lived around 1932 so think this must be the house he lived in but isn't the house that he inherited from Elizabeth as it says he sold his property to raise the £2000 to buy the The Elms. There were 5 lots of deeds attached to Elizabeth and still have no idea as yet where they all were. Strangely, John Edward refers to his inheritance in this matter and says he can put that towards the payment of farm, the inheritance he mentions is £500. That was the original amount in the will to be paid to him, but it was changed to £1000 and was duly signed off by Elizabeth. Now I don't think that John Edward knew this as he wouldn't have referred to his legacy as £500 so I do wonder who was fooling who!
Julia the half cousin was extremely thrifty and wanted almost everything! I also looked for any mention of a fire but found none, only referring to fire insurance payments.
There was a recompence left by Elizabeth to a Ralph Thompson for his hard work for last 13 years. Unfortunately Ralph deceased 1 month before Elizabeth died. Julia (I think she succeeded but will have to read again) wanted this overturned and for her to have the money of £500 instead of it going to his widow and retained her own solicitor in this and a couple other matters.
When The Elms was sold, all legatees had been informed, the ones in USA were apparently denied their legacy, I need to read more on this also. I do wonder if Julia had a hand in this also. Although the legatees in Ireland were initially informed, (The brother of Elizabeth was written to after a lengthy conversation between solicitor and Elizabeth who was probably confused and named him), but he was actually 8 years older than Elizabeth so was long deceased. Fortunately the letter was delivered and a son answered to the letter. This son being the brother of John Edward Blake. There is no mention of a legacy to anyone in Ireland after this. There was correspondence initially between a solicitor in Cork and the solicitor in NSW in this regard but nothing came of it. I was told this only 2 weeks ago that there was a solicitor named Hegarty in Cork who was disbarred for fiddling many accounts from overseas legacies etc. Lo and behold, the solicitor taken by the son William Blake in Cork was this same Hegarty who is mentioned in the correspondence of the probate packet.
ok have to post another one as it exceeds limit of characters.
Catherine
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So, back to Julia who at this stage in 1940 was about 71, Julia wanted more! Her legacy was £3000 from Elizabeth, also she had a house, I'm not sure how she got this house, she inherited all household goods of Elizabeth also.
The will stated that after all money and debts, legacies paid out etc, then all the residue was to be shared as follows: Julia to get 50% of residue and 50% to be shared equally amongst her nephews and nieces of which there were approx 26. Julia was the daughter of Elizabeth's half brother.
I don't think it states that Julia is included in this remainder of 50%, but Julia fought for her share also of the residue 50% to be shared amongst the nephews and nieces. Greed knows no boundaries eh?
Elizabeth originally left a sum of £500 to 2 of Julia's brothers and £300 to another brother of Julia's. Six months after writing up her will Elizabeth made a codicil to it stating that the £500 legacied to Charles, her nephew (Julia's brother) shall now be paid to Julia to be held by her in trust to invest the same in fixed deposit with the bank and to pay to Charles the interst thereon for his life and after his death the sum of £500 shall be held by Julia for her own use!!! WOW!!! Julia certainly knew how to use her womanly charms I think. I wonder what happened to the £500, it certainly didn't go to Charles when Julia died in 1953 as it doesn't mention Charles in her will and he didn't die til much much later.
So for now that is as much as I can put together on this, but there is still the matter of the 2 probates one month apart in 1974. Have read very quickly on the will of Edward John, I think this is as you said JM, that this came to light after Edward died and his sisters inherited from it. Edward was the grandson of John Galway Blake who died in 1880 and it would seem there was some kind of land or something not collected on back in 1880. The estate left by Edward was not too bad in size and value was around £16000. Something I didn't know was that Edward had 2 sisters! One was Theresa who died in 1983 and the other, the eldest child of Samuel (Julia's brother) and Matilda Battye, was Dorothy Matilda who married Mr Newquist in NSW and then moved to USA living in various places. Dorothy only died in 2006!
I also found the sister Mary of Margaret and John Edward through the packets kindly obtained by Ros, I knew she had gone to USA from Cork but couldn't find her in USA, I did find a death for her though in 1943 (sister Margaret in NSW died in 1944) and she was living in some kind of welfare place, where I suppose people had to go if they had no money. Mary would have been a legatee of Elizabeth also being her niece. But Margaret states in her will date March 1944 that she inherited from her sister Mary E Blake who lived in USA.
Ok thanks again to both Ros and JM for all your help and advice.
I will update this topic as and when I find out more info on the family.
Regards
Catherine
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Thanks for the update, what a very interesting case. Between Julia, the shonky solicitor, and the PT, it is a wonder that anyone else got to inherit anything at all... there's nothing like a bit of greed and feud over money to quickly deplete such a considerable estate.
ps: thanks Ros for all your hard work at the archives :-*
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How true on all counts! ;D
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Yes, agree :) (with OP and Cup, and of course with their goodly and timely comments about Ros)
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Was John Edward Blake the nephew of Elizabeth Marshall who lived at Gilmore, near Tumut? Elizabeth was married to Richard Marshall from Killarney. My husband's g.g. grandmother, Mary Barry also from Killarney, stated on her shipping record to the the question "relatives in colony", answered that she had a cousin, Richard Marshall of Gundagai. Mary also settled in Gundagai and married Charles Phillip Bourke/Buk. When her first husband died, she married James Irving. Richard died at Gilmore, Tumut in 1907 and Elizabeth died in 1935. They have a very elaborate headstone in the North Gundagai Catholic Cemetery. regards, Aurora.
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Yes Aurora that is correct. So you have done a lot of research on the Marshall family? I don't know when Richard Marshall sailed to NSW but know that he and Elizabeth Blake married there. Elizabeth sent for her nephew and niece John Edward and Margaret Blake when her husband Richard died in 1907. Yes, I've seen the grave/headstone online, apparently there is also a huge memorial window in the local church there bought by Elizabeth before she died I think. John Edward Blake never married but Margaret married Harold Reardon. You've probably read through all the posts here, its amazing how people are brought together in genealogy isn't it?
Regards
Catherine
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You said that John Blake was living at Flower Hill in 1949. Do you mean Flower Hill, Gundagai? I remember an old Blake gentleman living along the road at Jones Creek, Gundagai (this would be the road that goes westward towards Burra and Bongonglong). He lived on the outskirts of the town, in a hut in a paddock. I think he was a bit of a hermit. I was born in 1948 and I think this memory of mine would date from when I was a child - Sometime in the 1950s or early 1960s? Where I can remembering him living, would not be far from Flower Hill, which is on the north western side of the town.
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Well there were different Blakes at different times at Flower Hill Gundagai. I need to check them all again but I think John Edward lived at Windowie around 1940 as it would seem he had a few visits to him (I have this stated on documentation). On 1943 Edward John born Gundagai approx. 1920 was living on his own in flower hill. His parents living at Jones Creek. John Edward Blake born 1881 in Ireland, in 1943 was living with his half cousin Julia at Gilmore.
ON the 1949 I can't find John Edward (he died in 1951) but can't find him anywhere after 1943, maybe he was staying somewhere else, but I found Edward John living in Flower Hill with his aunt Julia and uncle James. I'm not absolutely certain where John Edward died but know he was living local to Gundagai/Tumut and that his cousin Julia was either living with him or with him or went to him when he had his heart attack as she called a family member who called the doctor but by the time the doctor got to him about 5 hours later he had already died. I don't have an address of where he was living though.
The geography of the whole area is not known to me so these are just area names to me. Julia's brother Samuel and his wife were the ones living in Jones Creek throughout til their deaths. Edward John was their son. I wonder if it was Edward John who you remember, I very much doubt it would have been John Edward as you would have only been 3 when he died. It may also have been James Blake who the brother of Julia and Samuel or even Charles another brother.
Gosh! living in a hut in a paddock!! I wonder why? I'm sure though that Edward John inherited the family home and land in Jones Creek when his parents died one year apart 1961/2.
Ok I just found James Blake brother of Samuel, in 1958 living in Flower Hill.
Just found Edward John living in Jones Creek 1963 after his parents died and James, his Uncle still lving in Flower Hill so it must have been James you saw. He was born around 1877.