RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Unwanted Certificates & Artefacts => Topic started by: Lafrowda on Monday 14 March 16 23:30 GMT (UK)
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I have a pile of photographs and odds & ends which relate to an Elizabeth Stirling Comrie known as Bessie. She died in 1997 in Perth, Scotland age 87. A spinster with no known surviving family. Born in St Andrews, Fife, and illigitimate. Several family and farming photo's. Connections to Comrie, Perth, St Andrews.
I offered them to the Perth & Kinross Family History Society some years ago but they expressed no interest. I would like them to be in the possession of a family member.
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Hi Lafrowda,
Nice thought but a quick search on SP gives no birth of that name in Fife (anywhere) 1895 - 1905 :-\
Annie
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Found 1 for 1899 but middle name begins with "Sta" - not sure exactly where yet?
May be an indexing error?
Annie
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Her birth would have been 1909-1911 by my reckoning.
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Have you seen this post.......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=379618.0
may be worth posting a link to this thread?
a quick search on SP gives no birth of that name in Fife (anywhere) 1895 - 1905
Sorry, must have been too tired, read 1997 as 1897 for birth.
1908 - 1912 give 2 births for Elizabeth Stirl of which 1 is Perth 1911 but other is not Fife.
Annie
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Hi Lafrowda,
Now that the index is free on SP, I think this is your lady?
COMRIE ELIZABETH STIRL
1911
383/ 1
Monzievaird and Strowan (in Perthshire)
Annie
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That is her. I conducted her funeral at St Andrews in 1997. Shame no one claims her as family, she was a nice, uncomplicated old lady.
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As you say, she was illegitimate & future family may not know of her existence.
You also have her born St. Andrew's (Fife) although she was born Perthshire which may throw people off?
What gave you the incline of St. Andrew's (Fife)?
Had she worked there, what was her occupation in life?
Do you have the name of her mother?
It's possible her mother married later?
It's also possible/probable that her mother is on the 1911 census in that area or was her mother from Fife?
A bit of digging needed here I think but it would be nice to have someone come forward.
New facts would be a help.
I wonder what her mother's occupation was?
Annie
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Dear Lafrowda (and respondent Rosinish)
I have the answers to your query about Elizabeth Stirling Comrie who died in Perth (Scotland) in 1997.
Firstly, some background. I am a Comrie on my mother's side and I was born in Falkirk in October 1942. In 1961 I applied to become a member of the Clan Gregor Society based on my father's surname Greig and my mother's maiden surname Comrie, both surnames then being regarded as "septs" of Clan Gregor. John MacGregor, the Society's Chairman, told me that the Society did not recognise these septs and advised me to research them. I did so, and ended up agreeing with John MacGregor that there was no direct connection of either surname to the clan.
I then began to transcribe all the birth, marriage and death certificates (from 1855 until 1980) of Comries in Scotland held in Edinburgh's New Register House. I did this work between 1961 and
1980 and I have about 2600 Comries on card index. My professional work then took me to Malawi, Ghana, South Africa and finally Australia -- where I now live in Perth, Western Australia.
I did, however, keep all my Comrie material through the years and it is now a rather valuable resource -- no-one nowadays is allowed free access to the original B, M, and D certificates.
In the 1980s , while I was in South Africa I created 63 family trees for Scottish Comries. These I later consolidated to about 55 trees.
I can therefore tell you that I have my transcription of the birth certificate of Elizabeth Stirling Comrie before me as I write this. She belongs to JC-G Comrie Family Tree 47 (JC-G card 1528). Her details follow:
Ref. 685(4) (St Giles, Edinburgh) entry 666. Year 1910.
Elizabeth Stirling was born on 13 May 1910 at 15.11 hours at the Royal Maternity Hospital, Edinburgh.
Her father was not identified. Her mother was [also] Elizabeth Stirling (Comrie) [the Comrie was added in pencil] and her "domicile" was given as Craigmore farm by Aberfeldy (although this address was scored out by a later hand and replaced with a pencilled note "Glentarf farm by Comrie"). The certificate was signed by Elizabeth Stirling (Comrie) [the Comrie was added in pencil] at Edinburgh on 27 May 1910.
The birth certificate has an important footnote:
R.C.E. (Register of Corrected Entries) 685(4) Vol. 22, page 34. 16 January 1911 states that the pencilled corrections are to be inserted according to a deposition by Elizabeth S. Comrie. In 1911 the birth record was also transcribed to the Monzievaird register as: 383 (Monzievaird) entry 1 1911 with the mother described as a farm servant of Glentarf farm by Comrie.
The underlying story here is that the original birth certificate did not name the "Comrie" surname, which it should have, and Elizabeth was clearly belatedly keen to acknowledge her Comrie ancestry. In addition, I happen to know that Elizabeth's family did indeed have its origin (if only for a couple of generations) on the farm Glentarf which I know reasonably well and which lies a mere 3¼ km SE of the centre of Comrie and about 2¾ km east of the historic Cultybraggan POW Camp. Although Glentarf is rather close to Comrie, it is in fact in the parish of Monzievaird, and Elizabeth may have wished to acknowledge that fact as well.
Elizabeth's mother, also Elizabeth Stirling Comrie, was also illegitimate. As this text of mine is rather lengthy, I shall close it now and provide a new entry tomorrow on RootsChat for her birth and death certificates and for her forebears going back four generations.
By the way, Lafrowda, you mentioned that you had a collection of photographs and other knick-knacks from Elizabeth's estate and that you wished to have them placed with a family member. Well, I'm not a family member, but I am a little bit of an archivist and I hate to see family photographs and heirlooms without a home. I have a large collection of Comrie material and, although I am 82 (but still completely compos mentis), I have already taken steps to see that my hard-won collection should not be consigned to the dustbin of history (otherwise known as landfill). I have five sons, all of whom bear the name "Comrie Greig", and my eldest son Robert Leith Comrie Greig lives in Aberdeen with his wife and three children. All are interested in family history and all know the village of Comrie very well. I have taken steps to ensure that my collection of data will be preserved and looked after when I finally shake off my mortal coil.
JC-G Comrie Family Tree 47 is two pages long and I will happily scan that for whoever might be interested. It is a declining family as of around 1980, although I hope it has grown since that year!
So, if you haven't already disposed of Elizabeth's photographs etc., I should like to put my hand up as at least a temporary custodian. I have very good computer scanner and my sons have too, so we can copy the lot, label them and make them available to whoever might be interested.
My publishing and scientific credentials may be checked by looking up "John Comrie-Greig" on Google. There are several pages of references there.
If you should wish to trust the material to my family's possession, I could give you my son's Aberdeen address. I would be happy to pay for the postage costs.
Kind regards
John
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Dear Lafrowda (and respondent Rosinish)
As promised a week or so ago, here are the family details for the senior Elizabeth Stirling Comrie, the mother of Bessie (Elizabeth) Stirling Comrie who died in Perth in 1997. She belongs to JC-G Comrie Family Tree 47 (JC-G card 1527). I have transcriptions of her birth certificate in 1884 and of her death certificate in 1967.
Ref. 383 (Monzievaird), entry 6. Year 1884.
Elizabeth Stirling Comrie was born on 17 April 1884 at 15.00 hours at Glentarf, a farm 3¼ km SE of the centre of Comrie, Perthshire.
Her father was not identified. Her mother was Christina Comrie, housekeeper. The certificate was signed by Christina Comrie at Monzievaird on 31 May 1884.
Ref. 453 (St. Andrews), entry 134. Year 1967.
Elizabeth Stirling Comrie died aged 83 on 21 November 1967 at 04.10 hours at the Memorial Hospital, St Andrews. She was a “farm worker (retired)” and single. The cause of death was senile arteriosclerosis. Her father was not identified. Her mother was given as Christina Comrie, housekeeper, deceased. Elizabeth’s usual residence was given as South Lambieletham Cottages, St Andrews. Her death certificate was signed by Bessie Comrie (daughter) on 21 November 1967 at St Andrews.
Elizabeth Stirling Comrie’s mother was Christina Comrie who belongs to JC-G Comrie Family Tree 47, card 1697.
Christina Comrie was born or baptised on 19 September 1841 according to Scotland’s People. Her name was recorded as “Christian” which was a form of “Christina” often (or occasionally?) used before the mid-1800s in Scotland. Her father was given correctly as Duncan Comrie and her mother as “Lilias” Stirling. The name “Lilias” is apparently an alternative pet name for “Elizabeth” used in some Scottish families. Certainly “Elizabeth” is given as the mother’s name in Christina’s death certificate (see below).
Ref. 386(A) (Muthill) entry 5. Year 1917.
Christins Comrie died aged 75 on 13 March 1917 at 4 a.m. at Coilcambus farm, parish of Muthill. She was a housekeeper and was single. The cause of death was given as pulmonary congestion. Her father was Duncan Comrie, farmer, deceased, and her mother was Elizabeth Comrie née Stirling, deceased. Her death certicate was signed by John Carmichael (intimate friend) of Mayfair, Comrie. Coilcambus is a farm at the junction of the B827 distributor road between Comrie and Braco and of the unclassified road that runs eastwards from the village of Muthill to lower Glen Artney at Trian and Wester Meiggar. Christina’s brother Alexander, a retired farmer, died at Coilcambus in 1916 and his death certificate was also signed by John Carmichael of Mayfair in Comrie. Perhaps he was the farmer of Coilcambus? The farmhouse is 2⅔ kilometres south-west of Glentarf.
Duncan Comrie, the tenant farmer of Glentarf in the mid-19th century, is recorded on JC-G Comrie Family Tree 47, card 464.
Duncan Comrie was born or baptised on 30 August 1801 in the parish of Monzievaird and Strowan (fide Scotland’s People). He was the son of John Comrie, farmer, and his wife Mary Comrie née McInnes. Duncan Comrie was married to Elizabeth Stirling on 16 April 1835 in the parish of Comrie (fide Scotland’s People).
Ref. 383 (Monzievaird) entry 3. Year 1867.
Duncan Comrie died aged 65 on 23 February 1867 at 5 p.m. at Glentarf. He was described as a farmer and widower of Elizaberth Stirling. The cause of death was “after fall from a stack … about 6 weeks”. I presume the stack would have been of hay or straw. His parents were given as John Comrie, farmer, and Mary Comrie née McInnes and the death certificate was signed by his son Alexander Comrie on 2 March 1867 at Monzievaird.
Dunan Comrie’s parents were John Comrie, “late farmer in Glascorry”, and his wife Mary McInnes, according to a gravestone inscription in Monzievaird kirkyard.
The farm Glascorry (now spelt “Glascorrie”) lies about 1¼ kilometres east-north-east of Glentarf.
Kind regards
John Comrie-Greig