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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 15:57 GMT (UK)

Title: French marriage between James Crosgrove and Elizabeth Caird on the 04/12/1852
Post by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 15:57 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,
Could anybody point me in the right direction to find a marriage registration in Brest Finistere
The marriage was between James Crosgrove and Elizabeth Caird on the 04/12/1852
Knowledge of French non existant
Thanks
          gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: josey on Friday 04 March 16 15:59 GMT (UK)
They are both English names....might James have been in the military? Have you looked for army marriages? Where does your information come from - it is very specific? Possibly a Scottish birth certificate?
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 16:41 GMT (UK)
Hi josey
Not sure where the specifics came from
Not sure if James was in the military
Elizabeth was born Blairgowrie Scotland, James possibly Scotland as well maybe Ireland
Elizabeth's father worked in Saint Germain-de- Livet as Flax Dresser
James and Elizabeth's daughter Euphemia born in 1858 in Blairgowrie

gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: josey on Friday 04 March 16 16:56 GMT (UK)
Do you have Euphemia's birth certificate? It may state the church her parents married at.

Have you tried here?
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1636101
Finistere church records 1772 - 1894, free to browse.
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 17:43 GMT (UK)
Hi josey,
On Euphemia's birth cert. she was born24/02/1858 at Mill Street Blairgowrie
No mention where her mother and father were married but it states James Crosgrove father was a Flax Dresser, so I think that would rule out a military wedding

gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: josey on Friday 04 March 16 18:20 GMT (UK)
OK, I don't know when parents' marriage started being on Scottish birth certificates. Do you know whether they were RC or protestant? I suspect the familysearch records are RC. What church was Euphemia baptised at?
This will be a brother Thomas I presume:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYBZ-LX5

Not sure where the specifics came from

You must have got the data from somewhere, sometime in the past  ???. Perhaps from an online tree - then look for it again & contact the owner? Perhaps a family member/contact - then ask them again to find what their source was? Or perhaps like many of us starting out in genealogy, the source was not written in the notes you have made for the couple  :(.
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 19:41 GMT (UK)
Hi josey,
Yes that Thomas is the brother of Euphemia b. 12/021864 Dundee
On his birth cert it states parents married 04/12/1852 in France.
I would assume everyone was Protestant.
I was contacted from someone who said they got the marriage from find my past that it was in vol. 1 page 187 what records they are referring to I don't know

gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 04 March 16 20:28 GMT (UK)
The marriage is indexed in the GRO Consular Marriages.

1849-1854
James COSGROVE
Elizabeth CAIRD
Brest vol 1 page 199 (not 187).

You can't see the marriage record online. You have to purchase a copy of the civil certificate. This can be done online from the GRO, using their order form called Marriage Certificate (Overseas Events) and entering the above index reference data. Cost £9.25 including worldwide postage.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

(FindMyPast have mis-indexed James as COSGRAVE, but you must enter the name as COSGROVE because that is the spelling shown on the image of the GRO index page.)
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Gmitch47 on Friday 04 March 16 21:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Bookbox,

Thanks very much for the information you gave
I have ordered the certificate from gro.gov
Also thanks to josey as well
Your time and help is very much appreciated

Thanks again
                   gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: jorose on Saturday 05 March 16 11:29 GMT (UK)
My usual reminder that relatively little for France is on the big English-language sites, and much of what is online is not readily name searchable (those records on familysearch are for Quimper et Léon Diocese which does not cover Brest).

Finistere (the department for Brest) archives are online but their marriage does not show up in Brest civil records - seems to be not unusual, where the marriage took place at the consulate.  Births and deaths are more likely to show up.
http://www.archives-finistere.fr/node/306

Did they later go to the US? This looks like it may be them in 1870 and 1880, with Euphemia as "Phemy" and similar variants:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6GQ-367
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH9T-LFK

Two kids born in France (Mary, James).  You may be able to find their births in either the Brest area or possibly over where Elizabeth's family were living.

Mary died in Ohio soon after the 1870 census but place of birth in France not listed:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6V5-LM2
Title: Re: French marriage
Post by: Gmitch47 on Saturday 05 March 16 14:36 GMT (UK)
Hi jorose,
Thanks for all that additional information.
I had found out about some born in France this morning but not searched yet
Also about them emigrating to America and the kids that were born there did see the 1880 census
also where and when James died on find a grave I have quite a lot to search out.
Thanks very much again for all your help

gmitch47
Title: Completed
Post by: Gmitch47 on Wednesday 09 March 16 14:49 GMT (UK)
French Marriage now completed
Thanks to everyone

gmitch47
Title: Re: French marriage between James Crosgrove and Elizabeth Caird on the 04/12/1852
Post by: davidqueneherve on Friday 18 August 17 15:47 BST (UK)
Hi,

Brest has its own website

http://archives.mairie-brest.fr/4DCGI/Web_RegistresLance/ILUMP17152

Two children born in Pencran (Finistère) Marie Augustine COSGROVE in 1854 and Gimes Ciard COSGROVE in 1856

The family in the 1856 census

http://mnesys-portail.archives-finistere.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_cg29%2Fdatas%2Fir%2Fserie_m%2FFRAD029_00000006M%2Exml&page_ref=57206&lot_num=5&img_num=1&index_in_visu=

Frame 12/15

103

Village écossais (Scottish village/hamlet)

COSGROV James chef de ménage, peigneur, 32 ans
CARD Elisabeth fileuse, sa femme, 21 ans
COSGROV Mary, leur fille, 2 ans
COSGROV James, leur fils 3 mois

There is a small Scottish/Irish community in the village because of a factory in the neighbouring city of Landerneau (textile industry).

http://www.pencran.fr/vars/fichiers/histoire/Histoire%20de%20Pencran%206-2.pdf

Title: Re: French marriage between James Crosgrove and Elizabeth Caird on the 04/12/1852
Post by: davidqueneherve on Friday 18 August 17 15:55 BST (UK)
Bulletin de la Société archéologique du Finistère
https://books.google.fr/books?id=zVLQAAAAMAAJ
Société archéologique du Finistère - 1980 - ‎Extraits - ‎Autres éditions
Dès avril 1848, des manifestations eurent lieu contre les «ouvriers anglais», les machines et les «grosses têtes». ... une caisse de retraite mutuelle pour les étrangers existait pour les 232 Ecossais dont le plus grand nombre habitait Pencran.

La Société linière du Finistère: Ouvriers et entrepreneurs à ... - Page 92
https://books.google.fr/books?id=2Xi2AAAAIAAJ
Yves Blavier - 1999 - ‎Extraits
3 - L'installation des écossais À l'exception d'une anabaptiste, de quelques catholiques irlandais et de deux Anglais de ... des célibataires logés à Landerneau et les couples invités par la Société et installés par celle-ci au cottage de Pencran.

There is still a rue des Ecossais in Pencran nowadays

http://www.cartogiraffe.com/france/france+m%C3%A9tropolitaine/bretagne/finist%C3%A8re/brest/pencran/rue+des+ecossais/
Title: Re: French marriage between James Crosgrove and Elizabeth Caird on the 04/12/1852
Post by: Gmitch47 on Saturday 19 August 17 13:13 BST (UK)
Hi davidqueneherve,
Thanks very much for your information on the 1856 census I was able access with the link you gave me. The second post you sent I was not able to understand, apologies for not being able to read or  understand French
Thanks again

gmitch47