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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: LouiseB31 on Friday 04 March 16 15:16 GMT (UK)
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Good afternoon from a rainy Stockton on Tees
I have an ethical dilemma for which I feel in need of your wisdom and advice.
Sometimes after laborious and detailed research, I discover something elusive about an ancestor - it could be their spouse, parentage, birth, death, all manner of things, and then I see that other researchers looking into the same person have taken another route and come up with a different and wrong answer. Often I can see they have simply copied from someone else, or they have taken the easy option - it happened in the same county, or it's the only thing that came up in the first search, and it is something I know for certain is wrong, something I have been able to rule out during my own research. Maybe I have the certificate in my hand at that point, so I know for sure.
On Ancestry in particular the hints nearly always show at least one another researcher who you know has made a mistake.
Generally I have not done anything about that, just noticed it, possibly a wee bit smugly if I am honest, and then ignored it. "That's really not my problem".
However, having just cracked someone's parentage after 33 years of research, and knowing that many other people have the wrong parents on their tree, I suddenly feel as though perhaps I should say something. I could send people messages to alert them to the new information but I don't know if it is the right thing to do.
I think some genealogists would be angry, or at least cross, would challenge the facts, would doubt me, would feel it a personal slight that someone should suggest they had made a mistake. It's a bit like criticising the way someone drives I imagine.
On the other hand they are family tree enthusiasts who have cared enough to do the research and load up their tree, so wouldn't they care enough to want it to be a true reflection of their roots?
What would you do? Have you tried it? What happened?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
Thank you in advance for your engagement
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My G/father and his family are in my tree but also in another persons. They have added a middle name to my Gt. Uncle , obviously the wrong person and I also have wondered if I should inform them as they may be wasting their time following me and mine mmmmmmmmmmmm ?
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So many mistakes are made...put on trees on Ancestry and then copied by others.Ive tried many times to get trees altered but often no notice is taken.Its not worth the effort....a good researcher will always make sure that he has real proof....Be satisfied with what you have done.
Rigrose
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This question has come up many times on RootsChat, for example this topic from 2010 "Correcting Internet trees". http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=429963.msg2945542#msg2945542
Stan
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My brief answer would be - only if you are quite certain of your facts. There is a great deal of misinformed nonsense in the public trees on Ancestry, and it can be hard to resist the urge to put someone else right. I have done it a few times when I have private personal info which definitely disproves what is on display - and sometimes it has led to some mutual corrections.
It is often pretty clear which trees have been carefully compiled. You could waste a lot of time trying to correct the others, and the owners often aren't easily swayed. See the other threads, as has been said.
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Not everyone will take kindly to having an error in their tree pointed out by someone who is probably a complete stranger that just happens to be researching the same branch of the family. It is the risk you take if you decide to help the person with the correct information.
You could just pass it on and they then have the option to either use it or ignore it. I would hope that they would use it as any serious genealogist would want their information to be as accurate as it possibly can be and if the information comes with supporting documents, sources etc then you would think they would be grateful, but with people you never know.
If you do decide to assist them with the information just be prepared for any of the reactions that you mentioned. ;) :D
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Hi LouiseB31, I can see your dilemma, I have in the past contacted tree owners on Ancestry and politely informed them of a wrong fact on there tree and cited records etc to prove that I'm correct, some have replied with a courteous thank you and some have replied with a terse "I don't think so!" ::)
I think the trouble is, is that it's easy to believe the majority are correct and the minority are wrong on public trees, a case in point is/was my 2 x Great Grandfather, when I started researching about 98% of the trees on Ancestry had him married to the wrong woman (and still do if I'm honest) even though I have contacted various owners :o.
At the end of the day the decision is yours to make but I fear you will unfortunately get what seems to be the universal responce from the majority of tree owners.
Just to add, if someone contacted me to point out a mistake in my research I would be over the moon :)
Frank.
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In the past I've added a polite comment suggesting they may want to review their research and giving them the information. These day's I rarely do, especially after ancestry upgraded the site because comments now aren't visible. I tended to use comments rather than message them in case it meant a future researcher might just pay more attention and avoid the error themselves even if the tree owner didn't, but not now really much point. :-\
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Lots of people would rather foolishly take hearsay and assumptions over facts. So if you were to tell someone who is wrong they are wrong they may stick to their own blinkered view over accepting the truth. Well your descendants may be lead down the garden path if they take up our hobby and use your trees as gospel.
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If you jump in and tell someone they're wrong, they'll probably take no notice of you. I would send them a polite email suggesting they may have made a mistake, and listing your evidence. Any sensible researcher would take a second glance at their work and take your information into account. If they don't, they're not worthy of your help.
Don't get bogged down by pointing out everyone's mistakes, it'll take you forever! But a polite suggestion here and there could be immensely helpful to someone.
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When perusing trees on Ancestry, I have noticed that sometimes I can figure out which tree is the "root tree" or the tree from which all the other trees have been copied; for example, it will often have a lot more data and records have been attached, or the other trees will have that tree listed as their source, etc.
If it is fairly easy for you to figure out which one might be the "root tree" for the ones you are mentioning, perhaps you could message that one person and see what happens, if you are so inclined.
Best regards,
Josephine
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If the information you have just found can be found by others if pointed in the right direction, I would probably send a brief message along the lines of:- have just found .................... think it might be of interest to you. It would be up to the other person to follow the direction if they wanted to.
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I can't recall ever having done this but I think I would inform people if the occasion arose. Putting myself at the other side of this, I'd be very pleased if someone pointed out something that would send me in the right direction instead of adding loads of supposed ancestors to my tree who were actually not related. If you have the paper trail that proves it then even more reason to say something.
I'm sure you'd approach it very nicely, I think on an occasion like this it helps to be a bit effusive - things on the lines of "hope you don't mid me pointing this out", "have come across this", "have reason to believe....." all soften the blow of finding out that your extensive research is wrong!
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Yes I always tell someone if I think they have made a mistake as I would like someone to tell me.
A few years ago I made contracted with a chap who was doing the same line as me, but had different information. We spent weeks swapping information and after sending for a burial certificate realized the person he thought was his ancestor had died in infancy. He was very upset for a start as he had spent years researching this family, but after a while he saw the positive side and said it was a new tree to climb. We are still in contact and swap new information.
Carol
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If they contacted me I would give them the information and let them know they had made a mistake but I don't think I'd spend time going through trees on ancestry and contacting them.
I had a really bad experience after I contacted someone who had my dad as still alive and remarried. He became quite offensive and even when I pointed out that I was there when he died, had the original death cert(because I was there), the funeral order of service (again because I was there) he claimed I was delusional and accused me of being on drugs. Luckily my Dad's death was 17 years ago (15 at the time) or it could have been a lot more upsetting.
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Assuming you've got your own Ancestry tree, I'd put the info (with source info added especially if not available online) on your tree and let anyone interested come to you.
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Hi,
I'm assuming your tree is on ancestry (?) If your tree is public ,I wouldn't do anything about it, they can find the info on your tree.
If your tree is on Private settings and you don't want to make your tree public , you could make another tree with the info you want to put "out there" on Public settings
"On the other hand they are family tree enthusiasts who have cared enough to do the research and load up their tree, so wouldn' they care enough to want it to be a true reflection of their roots?" Quote from your post
If only! lol
Kind Regards :)
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If I know for sure that someone has made a mistake, then I will let them know. I have experience of having made one mistake and then followed a line that had nothing to do with me and someone else helped me out on that one; it did mean cutting out 3 generations of one family but I have been grateful ever since. As has been stated, the wise thing to do is to set out your reasons for correcting them - citing official sources where possible or (as happened when I helped someone out) quoting from actual surviving personal written documentation in the form of a letter sent between siblings - and always, always apologize at the end! After all, it is galling to spend hours researching something that bears no actual relation to your tree. I will probably give them a hint as to what line they should be following, perhaps with "Joseph's father was actually Abraham, b. 1814 in Oldham", which should give them a start. More often than not, this approach brings forth reciprocal information that I may not have.
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I was, and still am, very upset to find my grandmother on a tree which has absolutly no connection to our family.
The other tree's owner had my grandmother's brother as her ancestor.
I wrote to her, telling her that he never married and never had any children. I have a copy of his birth certificate, (which is not on Ancestry), and a copy of his death certificate. His death was registered by his niece and the executor of his will was one of his sisters.
I have his address, when he registered his mother's death and his address when he died. I have also found him in the 1939 register aged 50 and still single. All the addresses are in Southampton.
This other tree owner has him living in Leicester. She's even got his date of death wrong.
When I wrote and told her, she said she would 'look into it'.
This was over a year ago, so I can only assume she reads very slowly!
Or could it possibly be!!!!!
If she does look into it, she will find that all my family on her tree are nothing whatsoever to do with her and she will have to delete them.
Over half her tree will be gone!
My Ancestry tree is private, but there are others, who are distant relations, who have parts of my family on their public trees.
I cannot understand why anyone just copies another tree and accepts it as their family. (There I go, being sensible again)
I started my family tree to find out about my ancestors. And it's been a revelation.
I will never understand why anyone just adds a name to the tree without a paper trail.
I love to give people information, some are grateful, just as I was when I first started, others just want to add as many names as possible.
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I totally agree, torre. I had a shed-load of my tree 'lifted' by another Ancestry user (I have since privatised it), including my personal story of my mum which was written for my family. The other person did take that down after I got quite shirty about it (we are so far removed from each other, having one person who is part of their line but a spouse of a distant cousin in my line and my mum really had nothing to do with them) but defended it saying they thought it was a historical document! I might add that this person has around 3,500 people on their tree, and they had been 'researching' for about 3 years at the time. However, I noted that they have since copied another tree which has a glaring error in it and, this time, I haven't pointed out that they are totally wrong - revenge is sweet!
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I can understand your feelings, torre, about having your family tree hijacked, but you have to console yourself by remembering (a) the other person may feel equally possessive about theirs (b) they may well have 'barked up completely the wrong tree' (c) most people will believe whatever they want to believe, and (d) you can't do much about it - beyond what you have already done. Sit back and feel smug that your version is the right one ;)
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I have pointed out one or two "errors", where what I know to be correct about a person differs from the information on an online tree - I admit, I'll often have a browse around, based on someone I know securely in my own tree. My grandfather has a few times been gifted an additional christian name - which confuses him with someone else of similar age who ISN'T him! Rarely does it change anything - although better-mannered people reply. I've contacted people when I think there may be a link - giving them only specific information that, if it checks out, would be almost certainly a link, and most of those have been very well-mannered, and the conversations we've had have sometimes clarified matters for both sides.
I would be highly delighted if someone pointed out an error or omission in my lot! Especially if it helped with some of those mystery folk ( we all know them, and have them in our trees), and gave me actual, checkable facts.
"You can tell 'em - but will they listen?"
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Thanks Andrew, I do feel a bit smug, but mostly I'm upset. I'm upset and angry that my grandmother, her parents and grandparents have been hi-jacked and there's nothing I can do about it.
Lydia, Thanks for coming back to me, I can see you do understand my frustration.
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As Smudwhisk pointed out the Ancestry Comments are longer visible. This is a really bad move on the part of Ancestry.
Very often I would just comment by quoting the actual content of a parish record to alert other researchers that they should consult the original. Especially if the supposed ancestor died in infancy.
Now new researchers to genealogy will likely not get to read the comments because they don't realize they exist. I saw several trees today referencing a marriage that just does not exist on the date and in the parish quoted but there is little point in leaving a comment when the existence of the comment is not clearly shown.
Venelow
Canada
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Ancestry at times appears to have more wrong than right.
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I used to add comments, particularly if there was something I was not quite happy with, or no satisfactory source. I would also add something to the overview - to the effect of "still researching this for confirmation".
I also add a question mark to a surname if I'm in any doubt re documentation!
When my tree was public, I would get annoyed when people copied things from my (what was then public) tree without acknowledging it personally in the comments, or through Member Connect. I know that it's permitted, that's fine - and obviously I have been able to to garner a few things myself that way. But I ALWAYS sent a message of thanks and gratitude to the tree owner, introducing myself, and giving my connection, etc. - most of them respond, and sometimes we are able to help each other out - but some don't respond at all - and I can see the recent times they've been active)! A few of those have even requested an invitation to view my tree, without giving me any "credentials" whatsoever! Do they get an invitation? Certainly not - nor even an acknowledgement from me!
My tree is now private, but my photographs still pop up in Public Member Tree searches! Which can be copied! As do some of other family members whose trees are supposedly "Private"!
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As Smudwhisk pointed out the Ancestry Comments are longer visible. This is a really bad move on the part of Ancestry.
I agree. Who is going to go to the Tools icon and click on Comments to see if any have been left. I've contacted Ancestry and to date, no response. I'll probably get an automated reply 'one day'. ::)
Cheers :)
Cando
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torre,
I understand why you feel like a stranger has hijacked your grandfather. I hope you will find some comfort in that your tree with properly cited sources sets the record straight. Your properly cited research cannot be disputed and anyone who comes across your tree that really cares about the accuracy of your shared family history will appreciate what you've done.
Also, if your relevant historical society or local libraries accept genealogies, I suggest you print a copy and donate to them. In the U.S. and I would think in other countries, family genealogies given to such institutions would be catalogued and available for the public to view. When mine is in better shape I plan to print copies and send one to my state's historical society plus another one to the U.S. Library of Congress
Regarding letting someone know about a mistake, I have done that once or twice using the approach others in this thread recommended i.e. btw thought you would want to know I found this document that indicates .... I did not receive a reply which does not concern me because all I can control is that I followed my own personal code of ethics for genealogy.
My rule of thumb about mistakes is to only point one out if there was some evidence the researcher cared about accuracy i.e. they had cited a few sources for the ancestor with the error plus included sources on one or two others in their tree. If there are no sources, then I don't take the time to mention a mistake.
I agree with others that on Ancestry, only a small percentage, maybe 1 out of 10 trees are carefully sourced. And probably 50% of the trees that I receive as hints have no sources at all.
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I would like to thank you all for your comments.
I don't particularly mind if people take my research and add it to their tree, good luck to them. Personally I prefer to do the research myself and if I make a mistake that is mine to bear.
I am mostly bothered about people who are near kin (say within four generations) and have made an error. They are researchers who I know are part of my family even if we have never met and are continents apart.
Having read all of your thoughts I am going to adopt the strategy that where someone has struggled (like me) to get the answer and come up with the wrong answer (like I did for a long time), I will send them a message suggesting they have a look at the material I have found and decide whether they want to look at it again. And I will be effusive and slightly apologetic as another poster suggested. Then it is entirely up to them.
For people who are researchers in the more distant past, I will keep quiet and not annoy them.
My tree is public and anyone can see any of it so new researchers will hopefully make use of it.
You are all great, that's why I like to give you my most thorny issues to look at!
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Of course I would never say "You are wrong, he was born in 1842 not 1844" but I would say "Your tree says he was born in 1844 but I have his birth cert which says 1842. I am happy to send you a copy of the cert by email, seeing as we have mutual ancestors".
What I dislike is when I politely correct someone and they still stick to their version even when they are 100% wrong. They say for example "Oh in 1871 he was 27, so born 1844, he'd be 29 if born 1842" when we all know ages on censuses are often inaccurate.
I knew my ancestor was William Thomas Coombs, and in the 1901 census he said he was 40, born St Pancras. I had his middle name from his daughters birth cert in 1889. When I found this 1901 census info out in 2004, I knew the 1901 census was 31st March 1901. Yet the only William Thomas Coombs born 1855-1865 in Pancras was registered in the Jan, Feb, Mar quarter of 1860. That would make him 41 on 31 March 1901 so I worried as I thought ages on censuses were accurate. Then I did more research and got his 1886 marriage cert, which tied in with his 1901 occupation and 1889 occupation and the fathers name and occupation tied in with the one born in the Mar quarter of 1860, as I ordered the birth cert before the marriage cert. I then knew ages on censuses may not always be accurate.
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LouiseB31 I sympathise with you. My post "lemmings" is about the very same problem. For the last couple of weeks I've contacted a large genealogy website to alert them to a mistake concerning my 2x gt grandfather. Lots of trees have his date of death at 1881 because they can't find him. I did, I have something of his he treasured from 1888. Right up to his will after 1900.
I've pointed out a few mistakes to others, one had my 3x gt grandfather dying 2 years before his son was born, I was thanked for pointing out several mistakes but it was never amended. Another had my granddad on their tree with a pic which they obviously lifted from me, but they put it on the wrong tree, again, it was left.
The shame of it is, I'd share info privately if people used it in the correct way. But there is no way I'll do that with those who don't listen......their loss.
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An..ry trees can be awful I've even found someone gaily giving a mother's birth just months before her wedding. Having had sooo many replies "I borrowed the fact from another tree" and the like I no longer look at any tree with out sources shown. But in the past I found two huge unforgivable mistakes. One was a professional "Genealogist" offering her services to the public for large fees . She gave her tree as an example of what the potential client could expect and on that tree I found an ancestor of mine had been confused with his cousin I was 100% sure of the facts so I politely wrote with the correct facts and cited my source did I have a reply ...no so I wrote again and said I had been happy to share the correct information with her free and did not charge unsuspecting clients for poor research. No reply
The second is for all to see in a book published by the Kidlington History Society and again concerns mixing two cousins I pointed out that in the same book they had correctly identified the grave of the gentleman they had gone on to marry to his cousin's wife after his death! A thank you from the author or the society....well of course not to think I paid for that book hoping to get more background to the place the family were from.
My advice is be sure you have left nothing to chance and are prepared to take a second look as more information becomes available, and record every source you have used carefully so you will always be able to check things out. Rant over.
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I would certainly welcome any advice/comments if others feel I have made a mistake and I most certainly would make every attempt to find the facts and if necessary amend my tree. Usually if I am in doubt and cannot be absolutely sure, with evidence to back it up, I would not put the details on my tree.
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After reading some your comments, I for one would very much appreciate anyone on RootsChat telling me of any mistakes that I have in my tree, we all make mistakes. How ever I have noticed on Ancestry they make a lot mistake with dates, and locations.
I hope that I have not taken ancestors from another Genealogist Tree and added it to mine, if I have I apologise.
Regards,
Tomscot.
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Tomscot, perhaps I'm just a synic but ancestry are more than happy for us researchers to correct their mistakes. Its cheaper than checking all records, which there are many, for the howlers I've found
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Tomscot, perhaps I'm just a synic but ancestry are more than happy for us researchers to correct their mistakes. Its cheaper than checking all records, which there are many, for the howlers I've found
I found an ancestors of my husband's born in Birmingham West Riding, Yorkshire. When I contacted ancestry they told me that over the years here was some movement of boundaries. Well that would be some movement ???
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Don't take it to heart if someone ignores your advice - maybe they're no longer researching their family (although I can never imagine giving up!)
If somebody doesn't want to listen to some friendly advice when they're given it.... oh well, it's their loss. I know that there are people out their who would appreciate me pointing them in the right direction.
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PharmaT...can you imagine a Yorkshireman with a brummy accent? ;D
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I found an ancestors of my husband's born in Birmingham West Riding, Yorkshire. When I contacted ancestry they told me that over the years here was some movement of boundaries. Well that would be some movement ???
:) :)
That's only an issue though if you were conducting a search on "Warwickshire". I find that FindMyPast is much more accurate if searching by county.
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Nosing round "Ancestry" trees, what gets me is when someone's obviously clicked" on the first proffered location for a town. "Southport" for example will throw up about 15 examples, and logic should suggest no-one in their right minds would change continents to an identically named town in another continent for one birth, then back for all the rest of their lives! That's an easy one to spot, but.....
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Anc have some districts on the civil reg indexes as different counties to what they are in.
A distant rellie was born in 1922 in West Ham district, and the county said Suffolk.