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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: hotfix123 on Thursday 03 March 16 20:15 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I know this is a long shot, but.....
I'm attaching an excerpt from a marriage record. The marriage took place in Fairview RC, Dublin in 1878. The couple were Anne Fulton & Christopher Hanley. Fairview was presumably Anne's parish. I'm trying to read the Place of Residence for both but can't make out either. For Anne it looks like "The Tap". She was a servant so that possibly could be the name of her place of employment. I've looked at the OSI historic 25' map but can't see anything resembling "The Tap" in that area.
After the marriage they lived in the Santry/Ballymun/Collinstown area. So Christopher may have lived in that area prior to marriage and the place of residence for him could possibly be Balcurris which is a townland in that area. But it doesn't really look like it.
So any suggestions as to what either place of residence could be would be gratefully received.
Cheers
Phil
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Is this there son James born 1880 also with The Tap address
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3db1b50031073
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There was a pub called The Tap
http://www.dublincity.ie/image/libraries/058-tap
which is now apartments with the same name
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/smithfield/the-tap-north-king-street-smithfield-dublin-1155434/
I can't find any history of it but it might point towards a pub of that name being there in the 1800s
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Sinann,
Yes, Thank you very much, that is definitely the same family. The sponsor James Bolger was also best man at the wedding. That baptism was on the 20th February but I have also found a baptism for him on the 24th February 1880 in Santry. I suppose he could have been baptised in Holles Street and it was registered in St Andrews which is close by. My wife who was born in the mid fifty's (she'll kill me for that) was born in Holles Street and brought from the hospital to St Andrews for baptism the day after birth and while her mother was still hospitalised, even though it wasn't her parish.
Mathewj64
Yep, I knew about the pub "The Tap" but thought it unlikely the name of a pub would be listed on church records as somebody's home address. However, maybe you are on to something. Maybe the pub took it's name from something in the locality (rather than the obvious connection between a pub and a tap). I'll have to look into that.
Thanks a million for that
Cheers
Phil
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Back Again.
I've read through all the entries on the image of the church register page on which the record of James Hanley's baptism is;
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3db1b50031073
All of the entries have addresses on the northside in and around Santry, Drumcondra, Fairview, Donnycarney and so on.
I think these records may have been mistakenly attributed to St Andrews and may actually refer to Fairview RC. St Andrews is on the south side of the city but all of the addresses on this page are northside and all within what was probably the catchment area for Fairview RC. I know that in the late 1800's Fairview RC parish covered a large area of mostly rural north city. It certainly covered parts of Glasnevin, Drumcondra, Clontarf and at least as far as Whitehall at that time and so may well have extended to parts of Santry and Coolock.
While Holles St Maternity Hospital is within St Andrews parish The Rotunda hospital on the northside would have been far nearer and more convenient for northsiders. So, on balance, I doubt these records actually do refer to St Andrews or have anything to do with Holles St.
This probably suggests that "The Tap" wherever it is, or was, was within the catchment area of Fairview RC. Although that doesn't narrow it down much.
Gone again
Phil
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Re your wife's baptism, there was a time babies weren't allowed home until they were baptised, it usually happened in the hospital. Our priest at the time (the 50s, Co.Kildare) complained he never got to do any baptisms so my dad who wanted to get some of the repair work that was happening in the church decided his new son would be baptised in the local church, the hospital ( Holles St.) kicked up a right fuss but dad insisted and got his way, on the second baby my mother hid in the toilets when the mothers were called to bring their babies for baptism.
Dad didn't get the work and the other new father's weren't too happy with him as the priest expected them all to bring their babys home for baptism. :D
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Use the previous button a few times on that link to the baptism and you get
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_andrews_mf_1838-1880_ba_0612
Parish of Fairview
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I keep thinking the other place could be something terrace!
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Fair play to you Sinann.
So yep, although it says St Andrews it's wrong and actually Fairview. I hope that's the only page that is wrongly attributed to St Andrews or it could cause great confusion.
Now that you say it yes it could be 2 separate words and the more I look at it the more I think you're right. Look at the previous column, "Rank or Profession", the R's in labourer and servant are similar to the 3rd & 4th letters in the second word. So it could very well be terrace. So now I have to figure out the 1st word.
But that can wait till tomorrow.
Thanks for all your help and please keep it coming.
Night All
Phil
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I'd expect a capital "T" for Terrace . . looks like -
Bals turill .. Bals firill .. that "t" could be an"f" and there's a dot implying "i" .. Bals field?
edit: there's a Ballustree near Lusk . . ??
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All of the entries have addresses on the northside in and around Santry, Drumcondra, Fairview, Donnycarney and so on.
.. all of the addresses on this page are northside and all within what was probably the catchment area for Fairview RC. I know that in the late 1800's Fairview RC parish covered a large area of mostly rural north city. It certainly covered parts of Glasnevin, Drumcondra, Clontarf and at least as far as Whitehall at that time and so may well have extended to parts of Santry and Coolock.
John Grenham's book says that Fairview was constituted 1879 (and I've a little note beside it saying "from Clontarf - which included Artane, Coolock and Santry.)
James Ryan's book says .. for earlier records of Artane, Fairview, Coolock, Killester, Raheny - see Clontarf
It looks as if the records you're looking at might be Clontarf?
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Fairview
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0477
Clearly the baptism image is the same as the one showing up under St.Andrews on Irish Genealogy, very odd.
The marriages only start in 1879 but perhaps they will be someone with the same address.
I'll have a look later.
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Thanks for that Eadaoin.
I take your point and yes, you're right, terrace would have a capitol "T" and so it is likely to be one word.
Is it OK to attach the full marriage record just for handwriting recognition. It's really not easy to read but might help in comparing letters in various words.
One of the few words which is reasonably legible is "Fairview" and the Rev. Philip Carberry was a curate in Fairview at that time and living next door to the church.
The address "The Tap" also has me really puzzled. Because it appears on both the marriage record and the later baptismal record for their son James in 1880 so I'd be reasonably sure it is in the Clontarf/Fairview parish area and isn't connected to The Tap pub which still exists and is on the corner of Church Street/Nth King St. If Anne was living in Church Street the marriage and later baptism would probably have been in St Michans or St Pauls parishes.
Thanks for all your help
Cheers
Phil
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The following death notice from The Freemans Journal Dec 11th 1877
"Salmon-Dec 10, Thomas Salmon, formerly of The Tap, Santry. His remains will be removed from Middleton, Santry, to Glasnevin Cemetery, to-morrow (Wednesday) R.I.P."
I’m curious to know the rank or profession of the two fathers on the marriage certificate.
Regards,
Michael Campion.
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Hi there,
I am in the same predicament, researching my ancestors Christopher and Anne Hanley, and cannot figure out "The Tap" or the residence noted for Christopher on their marriage cert.
I thought perhaps the residence for Christopher was maybe Baltrasna in Co Meath, and I found Hanley's living there on the 1901 census. But if feels like way too big of an assumption.
The Tap pub in Dublin Smithfield, wasn't named The Tap until around 1920s, so I don't think there is a connection there. However, there were a lot of residence around that part of Smithfield, that I did hear may potentially have been known as The Tap and this is where the pub chose its name, but again, its speculation and I have no concrete evidence to go by.
Did you get any further on your quest to uncover it?!
Louise
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Given the death of Thomas Salmon The Tap Santry and this death which looks to be Anne's father John Fulton with Anne as informant also gives the address as Santry.
Number 39
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06529/4881223.pdf
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From "The History and Description of Santry and Cloghran parishes, County Dublin", by Rev. Benjamin William Adams. (1883)
1655 The Downe's 'Survey' mentions that the high-road from Dublin to Swords, and so to the province of Ulster, lies through the barony of Coolock; it passed through Santry (Downe's Survey), turning to the left at the Tap, and continued through the Forrest to Swords, half a mile west of the present road.
May perhaps help someone get a fix on where The Tap was. Guessing the Forrest may be Forrest Little?
I see it mentioned as a venue for auctions and the like, so perhaps it was some sort of an inn?