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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: JanStef on Thursday 03 March 16 01:18 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I was wondering if someone could date this photo, please. It is about an inch in width and about 2 inches in length. It was probably taken sometime before 1940, probably much earlier. I believe it was taken in NSW Australia and that it is of my great grandmother.
Thanks
Jan
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Hi Jan,
It's an odd one - the girl's clothing looks far more modern than the woman's - length of skirt wise - to me anyway. :-\ :-\
Can't help with date but maybe this will make it easier to see. I think it is marginally out of focus and there's isn't anything you can do about that. And I now see the woman is wearing specs! ;)
Sorry - not sure about background but tried to get all ladies head in! ;)
Wiggy :)
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Thanks Wiggy
I does make it easier to identify. I believe it is a photo of Emily King and if that is her daughter Hermione then the date would be about 1900. I inherited a lot of photos when Mum passed with no names on the back so I'm doing my best to identify them.
regards
Jan
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I hope China or someone comes in to see this - I doubt the girl is dressed in 1900s style - but I may very well be wrong.
Don't you wish they'd labelled their photos!!!
. . . . quick . . . better go and label all mine! ::) ::) ;D
Wiggy :)
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Just bringing this one back up to the top for the daters.
I am not an expert, but I think this is much later than 1900 when skirts even for a small girl would have been much longer.
My initial thought was 1940's/1950's - but you say it must be earlier than 1940?
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My thinking re dates too IgorStrav. ;)
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Hello,
Thanks for bringing this to the attention of others.
I afraid I'll have to respectfully disagree with both of you.
Here's my logic. Firstly there's the size of the photo. I have others around this size and they date back to the 1920's. Photos from the 30's and 40's and 50's that I have are much larger.
Secondly there is the length of the Emily's skirt. I have photos of my grandmother (Elsie) in skirts that are just below her knees. Those photos must be about 1926 because Mum is in them and she must be aged about 10 - 12yrs. Other photos such as Mum's wedding photo (1949) the skirts are mid calf. Her army uniform skirt (pre 1945) is just below her knees. There isn't one photo of my mother or grandmother in floor length skirts. My mother's maternal grandmother, Isabella, wore skirts above her ankles c 1920's.
Emily died in 1947 at the age of 88. I'm guessing the woman in the photo would be between 30 and 40 years of age. Emily, my mother's paternal grandmother, was 37 when Hermione was born.
Then there is the little girl. The length of the skirt is a little short but she was one 11 children so it could be have belonged to her older sisters which may explain the length. Their background is Swedish maybe it's part of their national dress. Mum's skirts in the 1920's were knee length.
Thirdly, I have just learnt to use photo recognition software. I tried it out on photos of my Mother, my husband and myself. Each time it was correct. I have a photo of Emily in her younger days and one I thought might be her because standing next to her is her son. So I ran the software. It did a comparison with the one I thought to be her and the one I would like dated. They were identified as Emily.
I have one photo of Emily's daughter Hermione in later life. Again ran the software and the photo was identified as Hermione. Hermione was born in 1886. She looks about 10 in the photo so that dates it around 1896.
There's too much evidence against 1930's, 1940's or 50's dates or at least not in NSW Australia. From other photos I have, skirts of that length were worn around 1900.
I'm more than willing to hear varying opinions. There is always the possibility I have made an error in judgement.
Thanks and regards
Jan
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I'm no expert, but the collar, sleeves, shape and fabric of the woman's dress look 1930s to me, albeit a bit long for day wear. It also looks a lot like some photos in my family collection from rural Queensland in the 1930s. :)
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Thanks every one
Jan
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Hi
Just so everyone can see one of the photos to which I'm comparing the undated one.
I've attached the photo of my grandmother Elsie Bottom King. Mum is the shorter of the two girls. She is about 12 in the photo. That dates this photo at 1928.
This photo would have been taken in Elsmore which is near Inverell NSW
regards
Jan
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Now that one I will believe could be late 1920s.
But
I'm more than willing to hear varying opinions. There is always the possibility I have made an error in judgement.
I just don't believe the other is 1900s - the footwear on the young girl is all wrong as are the clothes. The huge bow was IN way back then but it was IN again later too.
Here are a couple of samples of children's clothing in Australia in and about 1900 - taken from the internet. My grandmother was about the same age as yours so I am also judging by photos I've seen of her.
It has nothing to do with the size of the photo . . . it has to do with the look of the photo and of the clothes being worn. ;)
Just my opinion - but backed up by others with far more experience on this board than I have.
Think you may have the wrong generation. I couldn't say positively that they are the same people in the second photo you've posted. In fact I'd say they are different - related maybe but different people.
Cheers, Wiggy
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I afraid I'll have to respectfully disagree with both of you.
Why did you ask, then?
This is neither a 1900s nor a 1920s photo. The clothing styles are completely wrong for either period and so is the photo printing out paper.
The styles are fairly ambiguous as is the photo size, but what comes to mind is 1970s. Maxi dress with a zipper closure, granny glasses, braids, very short hemline and white gym shoes on the girl. Short sleeves on both and what looks like a t-shirt under that dirndl skirt.
Bottom line is that this is a modern photo. And there is NO WAY this is from 1896.
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Glad you said that China 'cos I was having trouble even making it fit with 1940s. It just looks far too modern. :)
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Hi again
The photo was part of my grandmother's collection. She died in 1966, so the 70's are out. I didn't know that why I asked about the size of the photo. I got the facial recognition software yesterday. I thank you for all the time and effect you put in but I don't agree with you. I'm closing the topic, when I can find the button.
regards
Jan
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First zippers used in clothing after about 1937. Just been looking them up!
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Hi Wiggy
I have blown this photo up many times. There are no zippers used in the making of this dress. It's probably hand made. The front may look like it has a zipper but it isn't.
If the little girl was in her Sunday best then we would be able to make a better comparison to the photos you added, but she's not. The only thing I can say accurately is the clothes by children whose families may be well off are very different to the clothes worn by children who lived in the poverty of country NSW. My family lived in country NSW.
I was 13 in 1971 and we wouldn't be caught dead in those clothes.They are nothing like what we wore in the 70's; not to mention we would recognize the people; plus it would be in colour.
I know you are trying to help but I closed the topic for a reason (or at least I thought I did) and that reason was 'no one was listening'. I have a lot of photographic evidence that dates the clothes prior 1930. The only dress I can find in my photos that belonged to Mum's side of the family, that is floor length, is the one of Elsie which you kindly restored. Elsie was born in 1880. She's probably aged around 20.
When people started commenting on the clothes I decided to go through the hundreds of photos I inherited because what they were saying didn't gel with my knowledge and recollections.
Then there is another photo I posted to be restored of the Jeffrey/Stephenson family. I posted it to before I got the DPI correct. I can date that to 1901 or before. My great grandmother, in the pale dress, died in 1901 and judging by the age of her baby the date would be 1898.
I can't work out what the fence is made of in the photo we are discussing. It looks like iron. If the photo was dated in the 1940's I would have expected barbed wire, wood or corrugated iron.
We're going to Inverell over Easter to visit a cousin. I'll ask if he can remember any fences similar to the one in the photo.
If I'm wrong I'm not hurting anyone. You may be correct 99% of the time but I don't believe you are this time so please leave me in my delusion. :)
I appreciate your time, effort and concern but I don't care to enter into any discussion on this topic again.
regards
Jan
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Go to the bottom left hand side of the topic and find the lock button under your last post- click on it and that will lock it.
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I don't care to enter into any discussion on this topic again.
Don't ask, then.
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Copy edited.......
I can't work out what the fence is made of in the photo we are discussing. It looks like iron. If the photo was dated in the 1940's I would have expected barbed wire, wood or corrugated iron.
..... more edit.
regards
Jan
Hello.
The chunky nature of this "fence" I would say wall, reminds me of post WWI terracotta block wall construction with a wider concrete cap and strengthening columns at intervals along the length of the wall. They were also used instead of bricks in some of the local community churches of that period. As they don't meet todays earth quake specs [in NZ], they are rapidly disappearing.
This type of wall is common in NZ with the terracotta hollow blocks being either plastered or stucco covered. They are very similar in dimensions to the more modern hollow concrete block, and used in a similar manner. I don't believe it is a solid boxed concrete wall.
Height wise, those around our churches you can usually see over, but taller versions can be found at convents and Private / Church school yards. Not usually around private country homes, so I don't believe the photo was taken in a private yard, unless commercial, or institutional.
This advert [far right] confirms my idea about dates of such walls, with the advert saying 1920.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_clay_tile
Your photo file supplied.
With a proof sheet size photo, producing a scanned jpg file size of under 100 Kb I am assuming it was not scanned at a very high resolution. I would have expected a 600 dip scan to have produced a jpg file of some Kb 180 to 200. Therefore do you have the ability to get the photo scanned at 600 dip or even better 1200 dpi. Higher the dpi of the scan, the more the picture can be blown up to make evaluation easier.
The file size will be above this forum's limit of 500 Kb but it is possible to stay under that limit, by making several cropped copies from the high dpi image saved. Crop to portrait photo, crop to dress only, crop to shoes, crop to hems or jewellery etc.
I make these suggestions because we have just gone through this exercise, with another forum post, and it has helped reveal more details to the naked eye.
- Alan.
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Hi Jan...I can appreciate just how much you want this photo to be that of your Great Grandmother but the evidence just doesn't support your theory...This photo that you posted earlier and dated to around 1901 is far more typical of the era..if you compare the style of clothing to those in your current photo there is a huge difference:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=743310.0
Do bear in mind that people swapped photos and the people in your photo may be cousins or even friends. It pays to keep an open mind...I would say it was more likely to be at the earliest 1950s.
Is there anything on the back at all?
Carol
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Hello,
Has anyone considered that the woman may well be wearing a housecoat? It is 1940s or possibly later. GBP
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Still doesn't fit Jan's wish/conviction for it to be 1900s though . . . housecoat or not. ;)
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I don't care to enter into any discussion on this topic again.
regards
Jan
Guys...don't waste your time.