RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: susie_angel on Sunday 28 February 16 19:36 GMT (UK)
-
I hope someone can enlighten me although I think I may have to just purchase two certificates. I have almost certainly discovered my ancester George (Hemmings) Colclough, in 1839. Very complex family situation.
I m sure he was illegitimate. I located his registration for 1839 Staffordshire . Surname Colclough, and mothers maiden name. no father . Forename George Hemmings, which I thought strange. The same page and date is another George Hemmings (forename) and surname Hemmings. Mother Colclough. How could there be two registrations for the same person ? I m certain it is one and the same.
I also think that his father could of been surname Hemmings.
On the same family line , I found another record for George but he had changed the Hemmings for Wareham, again I am pretty sure it is the one and the same person due to the siblings , spouse etc.
Any explainations would be gratefully recieved but I am thinking this will be when curiosity forces me to order the certificates especially the birth ones.
Thanks for reading
-
Hi is this one of the birth registrations?
Baptism 24th November 1839 Longton, St John
George Hemmings Father George Mother Elizabeth Colclouth
Keyboard86
-
Where have you found the birth registration, I can't see them on Freebmd?
My great nephew is on the register 3 times. Once as John Smith ( mother's surname) once as John Brown (father's surname) and once as John Smith-Brown ( the name he is known as) Obviously I haven't given his real name! He only has one birth certificate though in the name of Smith-Brown.
-
Plot thickens
2 marriages
Ann HEMMINGS married John COLCLOUGH 17 Dec 1837 Fulford (St Nicholas)
George HEMMINGS married Mary COLCLOUGH 31 Dec 1839 Caverswall (St Peter)
claire
-
The reference numbers at Staffordshire BMD for the two entries are the same -- LGN/003/059.
So the record has simply been double-indexed, because both surnames appear in it.
Despite there being two index entries, there will be only one registration (and therefore only one certificate to order).
-
The reference numbers at Staffordshire BMD for the two entries are the same -- LGN/003/059.
So the record has simply been double-indexed, because both surnames appear in it.
Despite there being two index entries, there will be only one registration (and therefore only one certificate to order).
Same situation as my great nephew then - just cross indexed. ;)
-
Freebmd seems to have him just the once as George Hemmings Hemmings!
Births Dec 1839
Hemmings George Hemmings
Stoke on Trent 17 157
-
As mentioned above - looking at the "England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"recordset on Ancestry, it has 2 baptism records for George Hemmings - one for Lane End and one for Longton - two separate but adjacent towns (though it seems in 1840 these two joined together as Longton). Both records list father as George Hemmings and mother as Elizabeth Colclough and baptism date as 24/11/1839 - so assume that maybe these were duplicated because of the impending joining of the towns? No record of the George Hemmings Hemmings record in this record set - so I suspect this was taken from the baptism index as it is dated Q4 which aligns with that (the original index page is on Ancestry, but the page does not confirm if it is births or baptisms)
-
Bertie... that seems good, I need to get back onto Ancestry it seems, Parish registers are all over the place . I have not seen that. LaneEnd Longton is one and the same, as you say they joined up as one town Longton. The 5 towns are one long road going from Uttoxeter to Chester.
Elizabeth definately mother, Colclough surname .. but he comes down the line as Colclough which is my maiden name. I need to see if they got married, but that woman was widowed twice..
Would explain the double entries, two church entries, maybe he came back and stepped up as Georges dad...
Goodness, the days before no television !!
-
With the baptism it's simply two different sources for a single event.
The data in Ancestry's database England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 derives from LDS. A check of the LDS film numbers in the FamilySearch catalogue shows that one entry is from the parish register (Longton, film 1471087), the other from the bishop's transcript (Chapelry of Lane End, film 435797).
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Longton/StJohn/index.html
'Longton, St John was known as Lane-End church until the end of the 19th century and was a chapelry in Stoke-upon-Trent parish. It became a parish in its own right in 1839.'
So, one baptism, two records.
This is of course unrelated to the birth registration being double-indexed.
-
Hi again, looking at the original baptism, it would appear that the parish clerk has incorrectly put the abode as Potter and occupation as Lane End?
Keyboard86
-
Thanks for all that help, I shall have to have a copy of that certificate. The only thing that bothers me , do I put in a purchase for one or for two. Or is there an online siting of these documents? I would like to see the baptism where it states the father, I don t think they married.
I will chase up all those references ...
The big thing here is that if Georges parents had married, my surname would not of been Colclough.. !!!
-
I shall have to have a copy of that certificate. The only thing that bothers me , do I put in a purchase for one or for two. Or is there an online siting of these documents?
Birth certificates for England and Wales can't be seen online. You have to purchase a copy.
As explained above, there is only one birth registration. So there will be only one certificate. So you only need to place one order.
You have a choice of ordering from the GRO (£9.25) or ordering from Stoke-on-Trent Register Office (£10.00). You will get exactly the same certificate from both. I would advise ordering online from the GRO, as in this particular case it's simpler.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
When filling in the order form, you have to enter the surname and forenames exactly as they appear in the GRO index (even if they look wrong to you), or the GRO will not supply the certificate.
Oct-Nov-Dec Qtr 1839
HEMMINGS George Hemmings
Stoke-on-Trent
Vol. 17 page 157
The above reference is taken from FreeBMD and has been checked against the image of the GRO index page.
The GRO have not indexed the birth under COLCLOUGH, so you can't order it that way from them.
I would like to see the baptism where it states the father, I don t think they married.
If you want to see the baptism record, the image of the Longton/Lane End register is on FindMyPast, in their database called Staffordshire Baptisms, indexed as George HEMMINGS.
I hope the above is clear, but if it isn't please ask again. :)
-
Thanks Bookbox, I realise they can t be seen online, I was confused with the double entry I found . I understand now how its happened.and I suppose how I could never find George. I think also that I will see what I can see with the baptism records. So thanks for that pointer.
Its intriguing and confusing ... would the GRO have been recorded much later? As that surname comes down directly to me...Colclough ...So Hemmings was ignored.
I shall have to do more research around George to fully accept him on my tree. Thank you all ... Great site !!
-
Remember that you can call yourself whatever you like as long as there is no intent to defraud. Perhaps he was registered in his father's name, but if they didn't marry he became known as his mother's name and it just stuck.
Tracing my brother in law's tree, I discovered that his great grandfather was actually using the name of his step grandfather who he lived with in 1871. So my Brother in law's surname really has no connection to his family!
-
Hmm ... i m realising that the double barrelled names single mums adopt now, is not so new. Glad he did though , I much prefer it ....