RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: PopNorth22 on Sunday 28 February 16 18:38 GMT (UK)
-
I do not know who these boys/young men are but if I could date it and identify the uniforms it might give me a clue! The photo was passed to me from the Burman side of my Family, Northants./ North Bucks. Does anyone know what the uniforms might be? The picture is on metal and rather crumpled - this scan was the best I could get. If anyone could improve it too, I'd be grateful.
Thanks in anticipation.
-
An interesting picture. I would put this on the armed forces board as you will get better info from there.
Tintypes first arrived in the mid 1860's but the process didn't really catch on & we don't see many from that time however they were popular with travelling photographers in the 1880's - 90's.
So from that perspective the date is quite broad.
-
Thanks for the advice and information - I'll try that.
-
What a great photo to find.
I started playing with it but quite frankly it is beyond me with all that damage and the frogging on their uniforms . . . . and I found I didn't want to mess around with such a wonderful old photo . . . so I just cleaned their faces a little . . .
Sounds like excuses doesn't it . . maybe it is. But I would love to own a photo like that! :D
(For some reason it isn't allowing me to post my effort - even though it is registering at only 260kbs - this happens often and drives me mad! If I make it much smaller you won't be able to see it!!) ::) ;D
-
Persistence - but the file is now registering as very small on my computer though not here I notice. And hardly worth the effort really. Ah well . . . .
Wiggy ::) :)
-
Maybe Boys Brigade? which tended to popular in Methodist and Non conformist churches, I believe.
-
Definite improvement Wiggy considering the poor quality of original. First thing is probably regiment of British hussars. Man on right has medal, 7 pointed star. Medal ribbon has eagle superimposed on it. German probably. Collars and cuffs look like same blue as dolmans. I can't take it further, but no doubt someone here can.
Added: I suppose they do look rather young for soldiers. I did Google for BB uniforms and medals, but found nothing.
-
I wondered about European too.
They did take them young into the army didn't they? - - - often as Drummer boys I think - - which might be a reason for the splendid uniforms?
-
They look British, I don't now what they are. The BB is the best way to follow up.
-
It looks to me to be taken c1880, then I could well be wrong. With their uniforms they certainly look the right age to be Army drummer, or bugler boys.
Jebber
-
It could possibly be a theatrical or pantomime costume, difficult to tell after all this time?
-
They really are very young when they get cleaned up!!
Two from me
Pat
-
Thank you for all your suggestions and to Wiggy for his work - they will almost certainly be British. The Boys Brigade began in 1883 so is a possibility. I think they may be in their late teens - people were sometimes a bit undersized in those days!
-
I didn't do much - it is Pat who has done all this work . . ! And what a job she's done too. :)
Their faces don't look late teens - no matter what their size! Drummer boys were taken on at about 9 weren't they??
Wiggy - (she :D)
-
The Pillbox Hats are sloping in the opposite direction for the army.
Either the photo is laterally inverted (mirror image) or the boys are in some other organisation as mentioned in previous posts.
Is it normal for this type of photo to be a mirror image?
-
Yes.
-
The 'star shaped' medal worn by the boy on the left (mirror image) looks more like a Boys Brigade badge than an army medal.
-
Good evening,
I would say BB as well, most likely this is the medal; https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=nectar-tb-v3&type=61465&p=boys%20brigade%20medals
John915
Added; It's a bronze or silver squad medal;
-
Thank you John. It certainly looks a lot like it, but what fancy uniforms they are wearing! The one on the left does look rather like my Grandfather, born in 1883, so that would fit. However, I wonder why the photo is on tin, which I would have thought would have gone out of fashion by the mid nineties, although others have said they were popular with travelling photographers, so maybe they were at camp or something.
Regards
Valerie
-
Good evening,
They are bandsmen, when I get to my laptop I can attach a photo.
John915
-
Back again,
Stupid I know but the photo I found on my tablet doesn't appear on my laptop. In fact most of the BB photo's don't.
John915
-
Boys Brigade was mostly associated with non conformist groups such as Methodist and Baptist as far as I recall. A boys club if you like?
-
I think they were definitely staunch Cof E.
-
John915 - I'd love to seethe pictures if you can find them. I've sent an email to the BB in Northants to see if they'll have a look - or maybe someone at headquarters would have a look.
-
Good morning,
Church brigade were C of E, boys brigade were multi denominational but usually found at nonconformist chapels.
John915
-
I haven't been able to find a Boys Brigade uniform of the time scale mentioned and the pillbox hats don't look like the two banded ones used by the BB, They do however look like 13th Hussars or Royal Artillery pillbox hats.
Could it be they are boy soldiers or junior bandsmen in either of these regiments? or are the fledgling BB using ex military uniforms,? This pic to me says Army. The medal does throw a spanner into my thinking though.
The "tin type" photograph would be better dated by the experts on the Photography Board on this site.
James
-
I'm not convinced by the medals shown at post 17 on this thread. It looks to me as if there is a round medal with 8 points around the circle - not some raised work on top of a star . . . . In fact - hard to say of course, but the round bit looks almost flat.
just my viewing - here is a snip from Pat's restore.
What do you think?
-
The Boys Brigade inception was in Glasgow in 1883. If the photograph can be dated prior to 1883 then it is not the Boys Brigade. After 1883?
However the uniform looks very expensive to buy. Rich parents or is it not the Boys Brigade?
-
This is the nearest I can find . . . not exactly the same but coming close . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h61/
Open link and scroll down to Uniform Hussars as someone suggested very early in this thread.
-
Here's the photo flipped as they would have looked before being reversed on tintype photo.
-
Looking at this closely I can see this was taken in a booth rather than a studio which would have made it 1865-75.
Booths using the tintype media were popular in the 1880's & into the 90's. There were still a few surviving into the early Edwardian period but you would have to go with the previous 2 decades particularly the 1890's as this was the heyday for tintypes. A bit of a broad date but the 1890's is the most favourable.
What bothers me is that the Medal is on the right breast. I thought that all Military Medals were on the left.(taking into account tintypes are in reverse).
-
So, should I not have reversed it Jim?? - for the medal I mean?
What do you think about the uniforms? (Don't suppose they are 'dressed up' in e.g. father's/grandfather's uniforms wearing someone else's medal? - I presume that is a more recent phenomenon)
-
When I reverse a photo I always print it so on the image to save confusion.
I must say my first thought about the uniform was Hussars but they look too young but may be they were boy soldiers.
-
I think they could join up at 16 or even earlier in those days. soldiers,
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Flinn
-
Thank you. I wonder if I would be able to find army records that would be any help. They may have been cadets because my Grandfather, who I think may have been the one on the right in the mirror image, was definitely in civvy street until he joined up to the Artillery about 1916 at the age of about 32.
-
This is my Grandfather 1916 -19 - on the left.
-
if the 1st. is a picture of him in the Militia ( & it's a big if ) then there may be a record for him.
If his WW1 service docs. survived WW2 ( most didn't ) then it will state if he was.
-
I don't know the difference between militia and army - he was in the army - could you explain if there is a difference please?
-
The boys could be members of a local civilian brass band or similar.
This could account for the medal being on the wrong side, not under military regulations.
Here is an example: Medstead Brass Band (c 1905)
http://www.medstead.org/history.htm
-
Yes, those uniforms are very similar aren't they - I'll see if there were any brass bands in Northampton - there probably were! Thank you.
-
The website quoted is described as malicious by Norton
-
Those brass band uniforms do look very similar don't they.
-
Good evening,
The photo's I found on my tablet were supposed to be boys brigade. However it appears that the one with uniforms like the one posted are in fact the Upper Canada College Cadets. I know you often get pictures not of what you are searching for but they are usually down the page a bit. Not in the first couple of rows.
I would go with band still, definitely not Hussars as not enough rows of braid. Certainly not the 13th as they have white collars.
John915
-
Well, that does sound like an avenue to follow. Thank you everyone!