RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: aussie-girl on Sunday 28 February 16 06:16 GMT (UK)

Title: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Sunday 28 February 16 06:16 GMT (UK)
All I have is she was born 25/5/1931 not sure where
Died 19/3/1965 Perth WA
Parents Charles & Ann Old
TIA
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cupoflife on Sunday 28 February 16 06:24 GMT (UK)
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
#195 1931 OLD, Rhoda M; Female; Wellington
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cando on Sunday 28 February 16 07:31 GMT (UK)
Marriage
OLD Rhoda M   
CHATFIELD Charles E
District Perth   Reg#1918   1948   

Death
CHATFIELD-FITCH Rhoda May    33 years
Father Charles    Mother Ann       
District Perth  Reg#909  1965    

Burial at Karrakatta
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00126343

Cando
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cando on Sunday 28 February 16 07:51 GMT (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1954
CHATFIELD Rhoda May  52a Beatty Avenue, Victoria Park   HD

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h5o/
Rhoda Olds
you have a record for: Rhoda Olds married to Charles Earnest Chatfield in 1948 in Western Australia.

It should be Rhoda May Old. She was my grandmother. She divorced Charles and married my grandfather.

She was born may 25th 1931 in Perth WA
she had 2 sons to Charles.

Richard Charles Chatfield born in 1949, died march 19 2003 in Perth WA

Robert John Chatfield (Chaddy) died 1988 in Kalgoorlie WA.


I cannot see a marriage in WA to the end of 1965 and she died in Mar 1965 so why was she buried as a CHATFIELD?.

Cando
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 28 February 16 11:44 GMT (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1954
CHATFIELD Rhoda May  52a Beatty Avenue, Victoria Park   HD

Cando

FITCH, Keith Norman, 52a Beatty Avenue, Victoria Park, Shearer

Debra  :)
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Sunday 28 February 16 22:50 GMT (UK)
I wonder if there is any info about her parents, Charles & Ann
Can't find them on electoral roll,
Thanks for all your help so far.
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: judb on Monday 29 February 16 00:36 GMT (UK)
 Rhoda's father?:

Death, WA, 1946 #23, registered at Canning WA
Charles E OLD

There are death notices for this man, Charles Edward OLD, aged 61 (b abt 1884), whose wife is shown as Ethel Mary and he has step-sons Allan and Trevor WEARE.  There is no mention of a previous wife or children.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46158295

However on the next day is a death notice which states that he is the father of "Rhoda and Dorothy (USA)" - no mention that Rhoda is deceased.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46158517

Outgoing UK passenger list show a Chas E OLD, farmer ticketed to Fremantle, 3rd class passenger on the Omrah out of Tilbury (London) March 1911, with his wife named "Mrs"  ::)
Fremantle inward passenger lists correspond with Mr and Mrs Chas OLD arriving 4 April.

Quite a long gap to Rhoda's birth, though  ???

1937 Electoral roll, at Gwalia, Mount Leonora, Kalgoorlie District
Charles Edward OLD, contractor
Anne OLD, home duties

Judith


Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Essie on Monday 29 February 16 00:54 GMT (UK)
The mother's death?
Ann  OLD aged  63 
PARENTS George O and  Harriett   
Canning  District  reg. #93  in 1961 


Father's second marriage
Charles E OLD to Ethel M WARE
Canning reg. #39  in 1945

 
Essie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Aussie1947 on Monday 29 February 16 01:13 GMT (UK)

Possibility.

Charles Edward Old of Carlisle, motor accident, 1941.

 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95060234?searchTerm=

Gerry
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Monday 29 February 16 01:45 GMT (UK)
Is there any record of a Dorothy Nance Old  or just Dorothy who is her sister . a birth or married perhaps . What name did she go to USA under..
TIA ???
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Essie on Monday 29 February 16 03:02 GMT (UK)
Possibly...........

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?l-state=Western+Australia&q=%22Dorothy+OLD%22&l-category=Family+Notices
The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954) Saturday 5 January 1946
CODER (nee Dorothy Old).—On January 2, at St Ives, Hubert-street, Victoria Park to Dorothy and Don (U.S.N.)................

BUT.......this marriage in 1945 
Dorothy N LEITCH to Donald L CODER
Perth reg. #361

Essie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Daphne Fan on Monday 29 February 16 04:20 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Following on from Essie's post #10
This info from Ancestry.
Sadly I don't have world wide subs at the moment...
Californian Passenger lists    Maria Ann   3/12 travelling with Donald L Coder
Arrival 15 may 1946
port San Francisco
Ship Fred .C. Ainsworth
Destination Davenport.
Port of Departure.Fremantle.
Social Security Index
Dorothy Nance Coder
Birth 11Dec 1924 Perth ,Australia
Parents       Charles E LEITCH Nance A LEITCH
Death date 23 Aug 1988
Also this entry for Maria Ann Coder
Death 24 April 1989
Name listed as M A Smith (possible Married name)
Given the birth notice details the marriage cert may give some clues regarding Dorothy's parents.

Daphne fan

Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Monday 29 February 16 04:25 GMT (UK)
Yes,I just posted that info, makes one wonder,was she adopted.   
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Essie on Monday 29 February 16 06:08 GMT (UK)
I wonder if in fact Dorothy's mother had the surname LEITCH and her father really was Charles Edward OLD.

One marriage in the UK for a Charles Edward OLD was in the DEC Q 1906, Beverley  9d / 237
to
BURTON  Ada Jane    Beverley  9d / 237   
or
OLIVER  Jessie     Beverley  9d / 237   


So who was the supposed wife Ann for whom it appears a marriage was not in the UK or WA?
I have previously encountered the name Nancy/Nance  AKA  Ann.


Essie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Monday 29 February 16 06:34 GMT (UK)
Harriett Warboys married George Auld Leitch . lived in Collie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: judb on Monday 29 February 16 07:58 GMT (UK)
This looks as though this may be Charles Edward OLD in UK, particularly given the names of his sisters which he used for his daughters.

Birth,
Sep qr, 1884, registered at Sculcoates.  Vol 9d, p 191
Charles Edward OLD

1891 at Maurice Ave, Kingston-upon-Hull
Charles R OLD   30, joiner, b Middlesex
Eliza W OLD   28, b Werlsby?, Lincolnshire
Charles E OLD   6, b Hull
Lillian OLD 4, b Hull
Daisy OLD   4/12, b Hull

1901 at 32 Welbeck St, Sculcoates, places of birth, relationships as above, all chn born Hull.
Charles R OLD   40, foreman joiner
Charles E OLD   16, farm labourer
Lilian OLD   14
Daisy OLD   10
Dorothy OLD   4
Rhoda M OLD   3/12
Francis Challans   24

Sadly it would appear that the mother had died earlier in 1901 than the census which was held on the night of 31 March - see below

I don't see Charles Edward in 1911 which fits with his emigration date.

Birth of his mother - occasionally her surname appears as "Long"
1862, Mar qr, registered Caistor, Lincolnshire, Vol 7a, p 573
Eliza Wilkinson LING

Parents' marriage
Mar qr 1884, reg Sculcoates. Vol 9d, p 193

Death of his mother
1901, Mar qr, registered Sculcoates, Vol 9d, p 88
Eliza Wilkinson OLD, 38 (b abt 1863)


Judith

Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Essie on Monday 29 February 16 08:28 GMT (UK)
The birth of Ann
33622/1888  WALLSEND
LEITCH Ann
Parents GEORGE and HARRIET

Marriage records for Ann's brothers and sisters in WA but no record for Ann or Nance A.

Essie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Aussie1947 on Monday 29 February 16 08:50 GMT (UK)

1937 Commonwealth Electoral Roll
Division of Kalgoorlie. Subdivision of Mount Leonora.
Old Charles Edward, Gwalia, contractor.
Old Anne, Gwalia, home duties.


1943 Commonwealth Electoral Roll
Division of Swan. Subdivision of Canning
Old Charles Edward, 100 Raleigh St, Carlisle, contractor.
Old Anne, 100 Raleigh St, Carlisle, home duties.

Gerry
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: judb on Monday 29 February 16 10:23 GMT (UK)
Hmmm

As it seems that Charles arrived from UK with his 'wife' Mrs OLD perhaps her birth is one of these:

1884, Sep qr, reg Sheffield   Yorkshire West Riding   
Ann LEITCH

1886 Sep qr, reg St Saviour Southwark   London
Annie Elizabeth LEITCH

Otherwise we should look for Ann/Nancy going to UK. 

However perhaps the Mrs OLD who came with Charles Edward was not Ann/Nancy but an earlier wife/partner.  I mentioned in a previous post that there was quite a gap between Charles' arrival in 1911 and the birth of Rhoda in 1931.  20 years is long enough for him to have separated/divorced/widowed and re-partnered.

BTW the woman he married (assuming it's his marriage) in 1906 was Ada Jane BURTON, as the other woman on the same register page, Jessie,  was living with her husband George WILLIAMSON in 1911.  No sign of Ada in 1911 which would fit if she had gone to WA with Charles.

Judith


Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Aussie1947 on Monday 29 February 16 10:30 GMT (UK)
Hi,

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46385395?searchTerm=

1939 Funeral Notice for George Auld Leitch of 100 Raleigh St Carlisle. (Same address as Charles Edward Old in 1943).

Gerry

 
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: judb on Monday 29 February 16 10:43 GMT (UK)
Could this be wife #1?  My brain is full!!

Electoral Rolls,
1922, 1925 Ada Jane OLD, cook, at Kulin WA

No-one else of same surname at that address although Frederick George (brickmaker)and Ethel OLD are listed at Wagin (same electoral district), but I have no idea whether they are related.

Judith


Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cando on Wednesday 02 March 16 06:02 GMT (UK)
Did this offline a couple of days ago and much has been found so apologies for the duplications.

Australian Electoral Roll
1937  Kalgoorlie/Mt Leonora
OLD Anne  Gwalia   HD
OLD Charles Edward  Gwalia  Contractor

1943  Swan/Beverley
OLD Anne  100 Raleigh Street Carlisle  HD
OLD Charles Edward  100 Raleigh Street Carlisle  Contractor

1949  Swan/Beverley
OLD Anne  100 Raleigh Street Carlisle  HD

1954 Swan/Victoria Park
OLD Ann  52a Beatty Avenue, Victoria Park  HD

Quote
Australian Electoral Roll
1954
CHATFIELD Rhoda May  52a Beatty Avenue, Victoria Park   HD
Cando

1958 Swan/Belmont
OLD Ann  16 Maida Vale Road, Carlisle  HD

2nd marriage
OLD Charles E
WARE Ethel M
District Canning  1945  Reg#39

Death
OLD Charles E
District Canning  Reg#23  1946

Burial record Charles E OLD
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00080241

Did Charles' 2nd wife remarry

OLD   Ethel M   
TUCKUOTT William H
District Bruce Rock  Reg#14   1948   

Death.  Born c1898 - too young to marry in 1911.
OLD Ann    
Father George O  Mother Harriett
District Canning  63 years  Reg#93  1961

However is there an error with Ann's age

Quote
The birth of Ann
33622/1888  WALLSEND
LEITCH Ann
Parents GEORGE and HARRIET
Essie



Cando

Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Wednesday 02 March 16 06:22 GMT (UK)
Also looking for the true parents of Dorothy  Nance  Leitch (OLD ). Names listed on her death entry in US are Charles E & Nance A LEITCH.  She was born in Perth 11 Dec 1924.
Many Thanks to everyone's hard work on this discussion...
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 02 March 16 06:42 GMT (UK)
The Indexes don't show parent names but Dorothy N LEITCH was born 1924     Perth  Ref # 3443
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/
Purchase the BC and it should show parents.

Neil
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: aussie-girl on Wednesday 02 March 16 07:20 GMT (UK)
Tucknott is the correct name.
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Essie on Wednesday 02 March 16 07:24 GMT (UK)
Also looking for the true parents of Dorothy  Nance  Leitch (OLD ). Names listed on her death entry in US are Charles E & Nance A LEITCH.  She was born in Perth 11 Dec 1924.


I suspect "Nance A LEITCH" may have been Ann.  I doubt Dorothy's children would have known Charles Edward was a married man when he met(?) Ann so Dorothy's birth was registered with her mother's surname though Dorothy grew up in the OLD household.
CODER (nee Dorothy Old).—On January 2, at St Ives, Hubert-street, Victoria Park to Dorothy and Don (U.S.N.)................

Dorothy's family in the US must have known that when Dorothy married she used the LEITCH surname as that was her registered birth surname.  Also, the US family, especially husband Donald CODER, would have known Ann and Charles Edward OLD were a 'couple' prior to 1945, and maybe the CODER children assumed Dorothy's parents had the surname LEITCH.

Essie
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cando on Wednesday 02 March 16 08:51 GMT (UK)
Tucknott is the correct name.

I  transcribed the name as entered the Reverse Marriage Index. :)

Their burial records.
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00156494
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00072743


Cando
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Nerrkolas on Thursday 19 May 16 07:57 BST (UK)
Rhoda May Old is my maternal Grandmother.
The information in this thread is to the best of my knowledge all true.
Charles Chatfield was her first Husband. Keith Norman Fitch was her second.
There are two records of her death, one as a Chatfield and one as a Fitch. Why this is the case I haven't been able to get to the bottom of. I also haven't been able to confirm with 100% certainity who her parents were. As far as I can tell Ann/Nancy and Charles were both married more than once.

I give up searching I'm going to buy her birth certificate and be done with it.

Ps - I have been in contact with Dorothy and Donald Coders children in the USA, they haven't been much help.
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: cando on Thursday 19 May 16 23:12 BST (UK)
Quote
Charles Chatfield was her first Husband. Keith Norman Fitch was her second.
There are two records of her death, one as a Chatfield and one as a Fitch. Why this is the case I haven't been able to get to the bottom of.
I

Have you considered that Rhoda did not marry the second time but was known as Rhoda May FITCH.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: sparrett on Friday 20 May 16 09:49 BST (UK)
As a matter of interest

Charles the first husband may have more correctly been Ernest Charles CHATFIELD.
It looks from this as if Rhoda May was not happy in the marriage from at least 1953 onwards.
1953
 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/49082437

Sue
Title: Re: RHODA MAY OLD
Post by: Nerrkolas on Tuesday 24 May 16 05:33 BST (UK)
Well Mum's birth certificate (1955) has Rhoda down as a Fitch but I haven't been able to confrim if her and Grandad were actually married. Mum doesn't know, she was only 10 when Rhoda died and it wasn't something Grandad would talk about.

I started all this research because I want to find a photo of Rhoda to give to my Mum. There has to be one somewhere!