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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: lanercost on Tuesday 23 February 16 05:36 GMT (UK)
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From Electoral Rolls on Ancestry, I've learnt that from 1951 to 1964 Kathleen Saunders was living with William Timothy McCarthy, who was about her mother's age, at 10 Boreman House, Thames Street, Greenwich. He died in 1968 at 38 Bideford Road, Downham, Lewisham and perhaps Kathleen was still living with him. Are there any online resources I could use to track her after this? My grandfather born in 1928 has never known a cousin, but this Kathleen is his cousin.
She would have been born between 1917 and 1930 and likely won't be alive anymore but I'm still trying to learn what I can of my grandfather's big mess of a family while he's still alive, and hoping she has some descendants out there. I've tried to match her with marriages in the London area after 1964 but I can't be sure of any, ditto with deaths for any Kathleen Saunders.
Thanks for any guidance.
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when was she born
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1917-1930 is a huge range for her birth and also means she may well still be living.
You'd do better to focus on identifying her birth registration, for an accurate date and also her full name including any middle names, and then use that to find later records of her.
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1917-1930 is a huge range for her birth and also means she may well still be living.
You'd do better to focus on identifying her birth registration, for dates and her full name including any middle names, and then use that to find later records of her.
I know. A Kathleen Saunders with mother's maiden name of Saunders who didn't pop up in the Electoral Roll until 1947 is all I've had to go on. There's 5 births to go on with this. She hasn't used a middle name on the electoral rolls or on her mother's death certificate so I can only assume she doesn't have one. Thanks though, I see how it is important.
These are the five I assume her birth to be. The last one is less likely to be her. I don't know where her mother was from 1901 until 1931 and none of these places stand out. Southwark is closest to Lewisham though, where I found her mother in 1931.
1917
Willesden, Middlesex, England
1919
Wandsworth, London, England
1924
Southwark, London, England
1926
West Ham, Essex, England
1930
Birmingham North, Warwickshire, England
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From Electoral Rolls on Ancestry, I've learnt that from 1951 to 1964 Kathleen Saunders was living with William Timothy McCarthy, who was about her mother's age, at 10 Boreman House, Thames Street, Greenwich. He died in 1968 at 38 Bideford Road, Downham, Lewisham and perhaps Kathleen was still living with him.
In 1951 there is also an Agnes Saunders living with them,maybe she can provide a clue?
Perhaps she was Kathleen's mum and William's partner?
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From Electoral Rolls on Ancestry, I've learnt that from 1951 to 1964 Kathleen Saunders was living with William Timothy McCarthy, who was about her mother's age, at 10 Boreman House, Thames Street, Greenwich. He died in 1968 at 38 Bideford Road, Downham, Lewisham and perhaps Kathleen was still living with him.
In 1951 there is also an Agnes Saunders living with them,maybe she can provide a clue?
Perhaps she was Kathleen's mum and William's partner?
Thanks carol8353. Yes Agnes was Kathleen's mother, she died there in 1952. She might have been William's partner at this point but I can't be sure. In 1950 Agnes was living with William and his wife Eleanor, then in 1951 as you saw it's Agnes, her daughter Kathleen and William. I can't find a death for Eleanor though. She was Eleanor Fanny Box. There's a public tree on Ancestry of her but I can't see it to see if it has a death year.
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If Kathleen appears in the 1947 electoral roll you can eliminate the 1930 birth, as voters needed to be 21 or over.
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Here is the electoral roll for 10 Boreman House in 1950:
Timothy Saunders
Kathleen Saunders
Agnes Shepperd
Could Timothy Saunders be another child of Agnes & brother of Kathleen? Alternatively it may be an alias for William Timothy McCarthy.
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Have you found them in the 1939 register?
Agnes should be there, Kathllen might be redacted due to being born after 1915 and not deceased by 1991
we can't do look-ups for you though.
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If Kathleen appears in the 1947 electoral roll you can eliminate the 1930 birth, as voters needed to be 21 or over.
Beautiful, thanks for that!
Here is the electoral roll for 10 Boreman House in 1950:
Timothy Saunders
Kathleen Saunders
Agnes Shepperd
That's very strange. I have them at 17 Fernbrook Road in 1950. Agnes, William and his wife. I hadn't seen this one you mention, but if it's at that address then it must be them also.
So weird. In 1945 Agnes was living with a John Shepherd at 37 Maddin Road. In 1947, she's living with Kathleen (her first electoral roll) at 27 Maddin Road, with John Shepherd still at 37. But Agnes' death certificate with Kathleen as informant says she was a spinster.
William's burial has his name as "William Timothy Saunders McCarthy" but I've looked right into it and he never had that Saunders middle name anywhere and his parents weren't Saunders. Perhaps Kathleen had something to do with it.
Thanks for this! Something to ponder over.
Have you found them in the 1939 register?
Agnes should be there, Kathllen might be redacted due to being born after 1915 and not deceased by 1991
we can't do look-ups for you though.
Yes I've found Agnes in the 1939 Register with one person who's closed, which must be Kathleen. Thanks.
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Maybe with a child to look after she just moved in with people as a housekeeper?
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Who was the informant of William's death in 1968?
Have you searched the probate registry in case he left a will?
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In case William Timothy was in a de facto relationship with Kathleen, I had a look for Saunders births with mother's maiden name Saunders in Greenwich. They are too recent to post on here, but there is a birth registered there in 1952 with a first name and middle initial which may suggest a possible connection with this family. (There are later possibilities too).
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Who was the informant of William's death in 1968?
Have you searched the probate registry in case he left a will?
I haven't bought his death certificate but bought his burial from Deceased Online which wasn't very helpful. I'm not able to purchase wills or certificates at the moment.
In case William Timothy was in a de facto relationship with Kathleen, I had a look for Saunders births with mother's maiden name Saunders in Greenwich. They are too recent to post on here, but there is a birth registered there in 1952 with a first name and initial which may suggest a possible connection within this family. (There are later possibilities too).
That's amazing. Thank you for finding that and for teaching me something new. I'm not sure about the other births but your 1952 birth looks quite promising. William was born in 1905, only about 20 years older than Kathleen which I don't think would've been too uncommon.
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Kathleen Saunders was my grandma and died in 2001. William Saunders was her husband and my grandfather.
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My dad was born in 1957. He was the third of 3 kids of Kathleen and William. I don’t really understand this site but was looking to find info on my grandad as my dad was only 11 when his dad William died and he doesn’t rember much but knows his dad had 5/6 sisters he was the only boy. He was born in Bethnal Green. We might be related how do you know my family
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Who was the informant of William's death in 1968?
Have you searched the probate registry in case he left a will?
I haven't bought his death certificate but bought his burial from Deceased Online which wasn't very helpful. I'm not able to purchase wills or certificates at the moment.
In case William Timothy was in a de facto relationship with Kathleen, I had a look for Saunders births with mother's maiden name Saunders in Greenwich. They are too recent to post on here, but there is a birth registered there in 1952 with a first name and initial which may suggest a possible connection within this family. (There are later possibilities too).
That's amazing. Thank you for finding that and for teaching me something new. I'm not sure about the other births but your 1952 birth looks quite promising. William was born in 1905, only about 20 years older than Kathleen which I don't think would've been too uncommon.
Kathleen and William are my Grandparents. Kathleen died in 2001. They had 4 Children.
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My dad was born in 1957. He was the third of 3 kids of Kathleen and William.
I don’t really understand this site but was looking to find info on my grandad as my dad was only 11 when his dad William died and he doesn’t rember much but knows his dad had 5/6 sisters he was the only boy. He was born in Bethnal Green.
Are these related to your family?
William Timothy McCarthy
Sep 1905 Bethnal Green, London Volume 1c Page 189
Not found on GRO to confirm his mmn
William Timothy McCarthy Age 20
Birth 24 May 1905 Bethnal Green, London
Service Date 28 Jul 1925
Service Number 370331
Next of Kin W T McCarthy
Relation to Airman Father
UK, Royal Air Force Airmen Records, 1918-1940
Is this his parents marriage entry
Marriages Sep 1904
Arlett Richard Mile End 1c 632
Bruen Margaret Mile End 1c 632
McCarthy William Timothy Mile End 1c 632
Webb Louisa Mile End 1c 632
FreeBMD has these birth entries mmn BRUEN
Births Sep 1913
McCarthy Emily D Bruen Whitechapel 1c 406
Births Dec 1916
McCarthy Ethel K Bruen Whitechapel 1c 330
Births Mar 1920
McCarthy Daisy F Bruen Bethnal G 1c 417
Births Sep 1922
McCarthy Marie I Bruen Bethnal G. 1c 219
Births Jun 1925
McCarthy Annie E Bruen Bethnal G. 1c 240
Edit to add London Electoral Register
William Timothy McCarthy Snr
Electoral Date 1929
Street Address 89 Mape Street
Ward or Division/Constituency Bethnal Green
County or Borough Tower Hamlets
Also Margaret, William Timothy Jnr & Eleanor Fanny McCarthy
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Yes, this is amazing.
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Kathleen Saunders was my grandma and died in 2001. William Saunders was her husband and my grandfather.
Hi, great to see your messages.
I learnt a lot more on Kathleen since I made this thread. I were put in touch with some Saunders descendants in Sydney, perhaps this was you?
Kathleen were a cousin of my grandfather, but he had no idea about her or anyone from his father's Saunders family.
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No, my uncle went to Australia before I was born but died out there. Me and my family are from Greenwich/Lewisham. If u unblock me we can pm as you can’t say names on here but would like to talk etc
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Also if u could let me know more about Kathleen. I wasn’t all that close as we moved away and was young when she passed and my father doesn’t have the best memory. Thank you
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No, my uncle went to Australia before I was born but died out there. Me and my family are from Greenwich/Lewisham. If u unblock me we can pm as you can’t say names on here but would like to talk etc
PM'd :)
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I’m blocked again
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I’m blocked again
Haven't blocked you. Guessing it's Rootschat wanting you to post a bit first to get access to personal messages. They should work for you soon.
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Yes, this is amazing.
Glad the McCarthy info. was helpful thank you for your personal message, hopefully lanercost can provide you with further info. on Kathleen re: personal message system on Rootschat
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I’m blocked again
You have enough posts to be able to use the personal message system.
Maybe try logging out and back in again.
I'll send you a test pm.
Dawn
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Lanercost it says blocked from personal messages when I’ve tried to reply. I’ll try again later or if admin can help
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Bit late to the party here but do you have the following info
Birth
SAUNDERS, KATHLEEN -
GRO Reference: 1924 S Quarter in SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 125
Death in 2001
Kathleen McCarthy
date of birth 3 Jul 1924----you will find her with her mother Agnes in 1939 war register with the same date of birth.
SS
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Again not sure if you have this info re Kathleen's mother.
Birth
SAUNDERS, AGNES GWENDOLINE mmn CARTER
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in DEPWADE Volume 04B Page 233
Baptism Agnes Gwendoline Saunders
Baptism Age 0
Birth Date 10 Mar 1892------as per 1939 war register
Baptism Date 24 Apr 1892
Baptism Place Redenhall with Harleston and Wortwell, England
Father
Walter James Saunders
Mother
Rosetta Saunders
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UK, Burial and Cremation Index, 1576-2014
Agnes Gwendoline Saunders
Register Type Burial
Death Date abt 1952
Burial or Cremation Date 16 Jul 1952
Burial or Cremation Place Lewisham, London, England
Death image--daughter Kathleen the informant.
SS
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Yes Thankyou it was my grandma. Saw other information on ancestry
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I’m blocked again
You have enough posts to be able to use the personal message system.
Maybe try logging out and back in again.
I'll send you a test pm.
Dawn
Saunders11 still can't use personal messaging, is there anything you can do?
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Always Saunders looked like they took my grandmothers surname rather than McCathy. We don’t know why only just found out ourselves.