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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: brigidmac on Saturday 20 February 16 01:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 20 February 16 01:06 GMT (UK)
 Edward Hallis was a blacksmith in GB (his father samuel "adopted" my nana in 1900)
Edward Married Lillian Alice Hird in Liverpool in 1897


Edward died in SA in 1942

I see from ship records that he travelled to and from africa
He seems to have come from SA to GB in the  to visit his sister in  Greenfield street Birkenhead
in 1932 1935 and 1939

first evidence i found of him going to SA was 1912

his wife was with her father Thomas Hird in 1901 and I can't find Edward

there is a Mrs L Hallis  housekeeper aged 26 travelling from Liverpool to Cape in 1902
could this be to join her husband there

Is there any evidence of Edward having children in SA ..is he on any censuses
 and did he have any children
 with Lillian or anyone else

in 1939  aged 67 he travelled from Mozambique
to  GB (Ashdale  road)

Will be grateful for any pointers
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 20 February 16 01:29 GMT (UK)
 Details I have so far on Edward Hallis
1872 Birth confirmed to Cheshirebmd (Hallis).
.
1881 Census age 9 at 118 Oliver Road, Birkenhead. with parents, (transcribed as E R Wallace)
 1891 Census age 19 single at 138 Borough Road, B'head with parents, (Hallis) blacksmith.

 1897 Marriage Cert obtained age 25 bachelor at 38 Bright St, Birkenhead - Whitesmith. Wit:- John Brown, Edith Hird & Blanche Thornely Roberts.

 1912 21st June - Arrival on Ship 'Dover Castle' to London from Delagoa Bay, Mozambique age 40 - Railway Official. Country of last permanent residence - Union of South Africa.

 1927 26 May - Arrival on Ship 'Llanstephan Castle' to London from Durban, South Africa age 55 at 3 Greenfield St, Birkenhead - Railway Official.

 1932 18th April - Arrival on Ship 'Carnarvon Castle' to Southampton from Durban, South Africa age 60 at 3 Greenfield St, Birkenhead - Railway Pensioner.

 1935 29th April - Arrival on Ship 'Llandaff Castle' to Southampton from Mombasa, Kenya age 63 at 3 Greenfield St, Birkenhead - Retired.

 1936 18th May - Arrival on Ship 'Winchester Castle' to Southampton from Durban, South Africa age 64 at 3 Greenfield St, Birkenhead.

 1939 5th July - Arrival on Ship 'Pretoria Castle' to Southampton from Beira, Mozambique age 67 at 19 Ashdale Road, Liverpool - Railway Official.

  sister Martha Harriet Evans lived at 3 Greenfield st ; but I don't know who lived at 19 ashdale Road
I.ve not seen these ship documents information given to me
 
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 20 February 16 16:41 GMT (UK)

    Apparently there is evidence that his Brother George Samuel Fellman also went to SA

it would be after 1901 when he was with wife Mary E Fellman nee Long and daughter
Rosie A aged 2

I haven't found them on any boats yet

There is   a link to Familysearch  page on
English forum  but I cant open it because my computer browser is not compatible with that site



 
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 21 February 16 09:02 GMT (UK)
found
Mrs L Hallis 1902 taking ship from Liverpool to cape    south africa Housekeeper aged 26

now just got to find out if she + Edward had any children

and her death date
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Sunday 21 February 16 14:22 GMT (UK)
Don't know if you have this Edward's Death Notice

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 3473/42                                                               
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          HALLIS, EDWARD RICHARD.                                               
STARTING  19420000                                                             
ENDING    19420000                                                             
REMARKS   PREDECEASED SPOUSE LILIAN HALLIS (BORN HIRD).

Will see if I can find estate file.............
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Sunday 21 February 16 14:26 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have Death Notice and his will, there are 3 children.  PM me your email and I'll send you the copies.

Lilian died in 1938

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 3005/38                                                               
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          HALLIS, LILLIAN. BORN HIRD.                                           
STARTING  19380000                                                             
ENDING    19380000                                                             
REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE EDWARD HALLIS.     

She died on the 27th August 1938 at the Entabeni Nursing Home in Durban

copy and post the link on here and we can try and open it..
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Monday 22 February 16 09:59 GMT (UK)
I have found a Mary "Hallis" nee Long with previous deceased spouse George Samuel "Hallis", could they be your Fellmans?
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 22 February 16 20:06 GMT (UK)
yes they  George s + mary a nee long
They had a daughter Rose = went over on 1902 boatsare on a cheshire forum ;under long i'll have to learn to copy + add the link

george retired to birkenhea  In 1930's and die died in Birkenhead
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 10 September 18 12:17 BST (UK)
Edward hallis Death notice from Pretoria 1st aug1940 amended to 1942

Wife predeceased him Aug 1938

Children
 Leslie HALLIS b.4/9/1906
Frank Edward HALLIS b 30/10/1912
Joan Hilliard Hallis  1918


PS in an earlier post I accidentally  put George Fellman the birth father when I meant George Hallis the adoptive brother ...sorry .just Hallis family in south Africa
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 23 August 20 22:59 BST (UK)
Thanks to a link to.south africa records ive been able  to find some more Hallis records without looking at the documemts themselves
Also some records now available on Ancestry but difficult to search.

Leslie HALLIS divorced first wife in 1937.Johana susan Swart

Died in 1972  survived by spouse maartje marie Hattinger

1902 there was a court case between edward.Richard HALLIS & lillian HALLIS ....HIRD
It was withdrawn

A tree  on ancestry has edwards son Frank edward HALLIS  married to Susette Faith  van De Witt both deceased and with a son.thomas richard b 1945 also deceased but married with a child .

There seem to be  court cases in 1975 + 1981 involving HALLIS ART& GIFT SHOP  sublease to.mrs Benns
And S Swart

Im not sure what illiquid cases are but there are a few of them with unknown Hallis "s

And I wonder if a 1910 entrance MHG Leer TAB ...is a birth .

The person with tree hasnt been on the site for a year but ive left a message anyway.
Id love to pass on the plaque that was presented to Harriet Hallis by girls friendly society on occasion of her marriage in 1885 .
Ive managed to add it to her profile pic but it's wrong format for rootschat


Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Monday 24 August 20 10:13 BST (UK)
MHG stands for an estate when it is filed with the master of the supreme court in South Africa.
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Tuesday 25 August 20 15:04 BST (UK)
The court case in 1902, the source code  ZTPD was divorce proceedings against Richard brought by Lilian but later withdrawn.

The 1910 file appears to be a letter enquiring about an estate:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9L-7735-F?i=271&cc=2520237&cat=188051

The 1942 Estate File for Richard.  If you move through the images, his Will is there as well.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9G-FNJ4?i=256&cc=2520237&cat=188051

These are all on Family Search, usually my first stop for South African research.
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 26 August 20 01:13 BST (UK)
Thanks silly dogs
I use ancestry so I can transfer records directly to my tree

These records are really good I.ll have to get into habit of looking on FS too

The first letter is sad..addressed to a mr A Hallis about deceased son .....not one of ours

I dont know why I thought the court case was against Lillian Hird she was suing her husband 
 she not only dropped the case but went on to have ,3 children with him
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Tuesday 08 September 20 12:55 BST (UK)


You can also upload images to your Ancestry tree from FS if you download them to your computer first then upload them to your tree.   I don't have a sub for Ancestry so it's really the only way I can attach documents to my tree on there. ;)

FS has a very large collection of South African records and more are added all the time.
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 08 September 20 13:37 BST (UK)
Thanks sillydogs i dont have a computer and am not good at downloading anything but may attempt on tablet .

Ive learnt to screenshot sometimes but official sites block.from doing that !
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: 3sillydogs on Monday 14 September 20 13:37 BST (UK)


I have managed screenshots from FS ;) ;)
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 23 February 21 18:15 GMT (UK)
Here are the details of Edward Richard Hallis brother George Samuel and his wife Mary Long

 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742054.msg5914024#msg5914024

I believe we have finally found descendants of the South African HALLIS family
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 25 February 23 19:07 GMT (UK)
Update
I have communicated with descendants of
Birkenhead HALLIS

I wanted to pass on a certificate that was awarded to their sister but apparently it's really dodgy posting anything where they livi in south Africa

Thanks again everyone
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 04 November 25 19:27 GMT (UK)
I've now got a photo  of Edward's grandson Thomas HALLIS   and have communicated with his son and now  his daughters daughter is showing an interest and has built a tree.

I need to get access to newspapers again as there is something about an edward  Hallis in the 1904 Birkenhead News

Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:03 GMT (UK)
Lillian died in 1938 and Edward in 1942. Here is a picture of their gravestone in Durban https://www.graves.eggsa.org/kwazulunatal/DURBAN_urban/stellawood/Cremat_Wall%20of%20Rem/H%20-%20Vanne%20__%20Surnames%20-%20H/hsurname/IMG_1168.JPG
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:13 GMT (UK)
Here is the gravestone of Leslie and his wife https://www.graves.eggsa.org/gauteng/Pretoria_Urban/villieria/NGK_Gedenkmuur/20150815_112402_1_.jpg
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:21 GMT (UK)
Not sure if you have seen this?
DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 210/56                                                               
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          HALLIS, MARY. BORN LONG.                                             
STARTING  19550000                                                             
ENDING    19550000                                                             
REMARKS   PREDECEASED SPOUSE GEORGE SAMUEL HALLIS.   
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:27 GMT (UK)
Looks like Leslie married twice!
DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    TPD                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 5/439                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 170/1937                                                             
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          ILLIQUID CASE. DIVORCE. LESLIE HALLIS VERSUS JOHAN SUSAN (BORN       
           SWART).      Being a female I think Johan should be Joan. Johan is a man’s name.                                                     
STARTING  19370000                                                             
ENDING    19370000 
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:30 GMT (UK)
DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    ZTPD                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 5/517                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 4315/1902                                                             
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          ILLIQUID CASE. ADULTERY. EDWARD RICHARD HALLIS VERSUS LILLIAN (BORN   
           HIRD).                                                               
STARTING  19020000                                                             
ENDING    19020000                                                             
REMARKS   WITHDRAWN.
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:35 GMT (UK)
Looks like Frank Hallis bought land in Pretoria.
DEPOT     SAB                                                                   
SOURCE    URU                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 2424                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 1408                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          GRANT TO FE HALLIS OF CERTAIN PORTION 8 OF PLOT NO 97 (9), 25TH AVE, 
           VILLIERIA, PRETORIA.                                                 
STARTING  1947                                                                 
ENDING    1947 
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 12:51 GMT (UK)
If you scroll about three quarters of the page you will see Frank married Gertrude Gilbert in 1939 in Pretoria https://www.1820settlers.com/genealogy/settlerbrowsemarrs.php?name=GILBERT&first=
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Wednesday 05 November 25 13:03 GMT (UK)
It appears Gertrude Gilbert’s first husband died in 1938.
DEPOT     NAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 27897/1938                                                           
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          GILBERT, HERBERT EDWARD. (S/S GILBERT, GERTRUDE).                     
STARTING  1938                                                                 
ENDING    1939
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 05 November 25 13:03 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all these Pampoen.

The graves are lovely

Let me go thru the information

I knew  some things

Leslie's divorce

Very interested that Mary long predeaceased George
How can I. Find that date ?
I have George as 47 & blind living in Birkenhead but still married

There was another George Samuel Hallis in the area so I don't know if the will I have sent for is the correct one



.Johan was Johana.

Lillian.sued Edward for divorce but stayed with him and had 3 children.after that court case
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 05 November 25 14:52 GMT (UK)
Could anyone  tell me if this record is wrong

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61358/records/73494?ssrc=pt&tid=108886536&pid=162220421920

It says its death record of  leslies wife mary martje Harrington.1926 but I wonder if thats actually her birth year and she is the one on the grave stone nicknamed koko 🤔

Did Leslie have 2 or 3 wives and which one was the mother of which of his children ?.
David Samuel

Also information from a  great aunt Lillian was that Joan Hilliard HALLIS  had a son called Graham who went to live in England.does that mean she was married ?
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: pampoen on Thursday 06 November 25 06:06 GMT (UK)
George Samuel Hallis died in 1935 https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L138-YK2/maisie-fellman-roberts-1899-1982
Title: Re: Edward Richard Hallis b1872 ;any children in SA
Post by: brigidmac on Thursday 06 November 25 10:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks Pampoen will reply to message when I receive Georges probate I teill have suspicion that this death was the other Birkenhead george HALLIS + fanily search information may come from my mothers original research she knew his sister martha Harriett + her daughter lucy  known as great aunt Haritit +aunty luvy cookson but doesnt remember any south african relatives