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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: iolaus on Wednesday 17 February 16 18:34 GMT (UK)
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I *think* I've managed to find a death record for one of my relatives, however the age is out by 3 years - is this within the realms of possibility?
'My' Fanny Simpson is born 2nd quarter 1855
1861 she's aged 6 with her mother and stepfather
1871 she's aged 16 with her mother and step father
1881 she's aged 26 with her widowed mother
1891 she's aged 36 with her married sister
1901 she's aged 46 with her niece
In 1907 'a' Fanny Simpson is admitted to the asylum in Leicester and dies there in 1909 - aged 51 (when 'my' Fanny would be 54) - death registered by the master of the asylum
I have requested the asylum notes and am hoping they give her niece (or niece's husband) as person who admitted her as then I will know it is her.
Any other ideas as to how I may prove or disprove this death
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It was only as accurate as to what the person thought the age was.
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Highly likely. I have quite a few myself where the ages are a couple of years out. People back then didn't put so much emphasis on age as we do now.
Sometimes they were not exactly sure of their date of birth and when it came to registering their deaths years later families didn't have birth records as we do now to give an exact age.
Looks like you have a match.
Dorrie
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I suspect sometimes it was just an educated guess. If the person registering the death was a close relative there is more chance of it being correct, but people seem often to have been vague about their own age in later life, if the censuses and even some marriage certificates are believed ::)
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As someone has already said - it depends how old the person registering the death THOUGHT she was.
In this case -- if she was admitted to an Asylum -- someone would have told them her age (or assumed age) at the admission.
In those days people had no real reason to remember how old they were - they didn't make a fuss about 40th, 50th, 60th birthdays like we do today. They didn't get a pension at 60/65 (or whatever the powers that be have decided it is now). Hence it must have been quite difficult to remember how old they were. (I have problems myself!)
I have one registered by a son in law which is actually 9 years out - but I know it's the correct one because of the address and the 'son in law'.
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Agree with those above who say the age is only as accurate as the person giving it. I have one from 1946 registered by his son and was 10 years younger than he really was!
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Yes, many people did not know exactly how old they were even if we may do, through their birth cert (if born after June 1837) or baptism cert giving DOB etc. Ages on death certs can be out.
Ie my 2xgreat gran died in Sep 1943 just 4 months short of her 80th but she was said to be 78 on the cert. She was born 31 Dec 1863. Ages can be more than a year out.
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Even in recent times, not everyone is clear about their relatives' dates of birth.
I was saying to a relative the other day - "had he still been alive it would have been your Dad's 99th birthday tomorrow", and he replied "how do you know what year he was born in, because I don't".
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I even knew someone who was born in 1967 and in 2006 he said he would be 40 this year.
A work colleague was 29 in 2007 and 32 in 2008. Even now people may not know or lose track of their exact age.
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It sounds like Fanny had a good idea of how old she was - her age stays consistent across the censuses. But the master of the asylum might not have had an accurate idea... maybe when she entered the asylum she was estimated to be "about 50", so when she died over a year later he simply added a year...
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My wife's ggmother was extremely economical with the truth, including a statement to the Registrar on her second "marriage" that she was a widow - she wasn't!
Her life was full of contradictions and each census record was different from the last one in terms of where she was born etc,.
Her death certificate likewise was 16 years adrift!! It showed her as 55 when she was in fact 71.
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... maybe when she entered the asylum she was estimated to be "about 50", so when she died over a year later he simply added a year...
Bit like the dinosaur that was 160,000,012 years old . . . "well, it was 160 million years old when I started working in the museum 12 years ago" :)
Apart from some of the reasons already mentioned, I believe some people may have adjusted their age for employment purposes.
Mike.
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I would not assume anything on a death certificate is accurate.
I've purchased just three death certificates. Just the ones that I need some further details for because the details I have so far aren't in agreement. So far 100% of these certificates have given me more questions than answers because information is missing (parts of it are blank) or anywhere from slightly to completely incorrect.
My impression is that if you die in an institution then the informant is likely to be an employee of the institution. They'll do their best, but they don't really know you.
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Not everyone knew how old they were and many people's families didn't know how old they were even if the individual did. More recently (in scotland) any way you are required to bring the birth certificate when registering death so for more recent deaths the age is more likely to be accurate. I am considered an oddity for knowing the age of my relatives so I think it is still very common not to know ages.
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When my Irish gt-grandmother died in 1916 she was a widow and quite probably living alone. Her death was registered by a non-relative - perhaps a neighbour or a carer - who put her at 72 when she was actually 66. It confused me for a while, but not for long as the death could not possibly be anyone else (an uncommon surname in Ireland).
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Like the others I would not be too concerned by this 3 year discrepancy - particularly if the informant was somebody from the asylum rather than a family member.
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Of course, it could be that there's been a mis-read of the original registration. It could be that "54" was written in long hand, in ink. Perhaps part of the '4' has faded and that is what has caused the document to be read as '51'
Cheers, JM
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Even in recent times, not everyone is clear about their relatives' dates of birth.
I was saying to a relative the other day - "had he still been alive it would have been your Dad's 99th birthday tomorrow", and he replied "how do you know what year he was born in, because I don't".
That's because he doesn't think like we do. ;)
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Even in recent times, not everyone is clear about their relatives' dates of birth.
I was saying to a relative the other day - "had he still been alive it would have been your Dad's 99th birthday tomorrow", and he replied "how do you know what year he was born in, because I don't".
That's because he doesn't think like we do. ;)
I know. ::) But I have to say, even before starting all this family history malarkey, I knew the years of my Mum and Dad's births.
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I didn't actually know my Dad's birthdate - or even birthday. My parents separated when I was quite young and he died when I was still at school.
When I started Family History - I was surprised to discover that he was quite a bit older than my Mum. Also really surprised that HIS mother, my grandma, was Irish. (We had kept in touch with my grandma).
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I have one death cert where the man died in the workhouse infirmary and in the margin it reads
For Clayton read Cleaton,
For 63 read 57 years
For General Labourer read Gunmaker
Corrected on the 16th June 1893 by me
George Shread registrar on production of a statutory Declaration by Catherine Cleaton and Henry Walter Deeley
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Genetta -- that's hilarious!
As his christian name isn't mentioned - presumably they got that right first time.
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Strangely, I have one lady in my family who lies about her age when she married and on every census (perhaps because her husband is several years her junior), yet on her death certificate her age is spot on. Either she stopped pretending to be younger, or someone found her birth certificate. ..
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One ancestor was born in May 1813. He was baptised that month. Unless he was aged 3 when he was baptised, unlikely as he had a sister born late 1809, he said he was 21 in 1831 when he joined the army. He left in 1856, his age said he was 46 and 5 months. He was 47 in 1861, 58 in 1871, and 68 in 1878 when he applied for poor relief, that age tallied with his army records age, maybe he showed them to the poor law. Yet when he was admitted to the workhouse in 1885, 1887 and 1889, dying that year, all refs said he was born in 1813. His death cert said he was 76 in 1889. I think he added 3 years onto his age to join the army. Even though 18 was a acceptable age, he may have said he was 21 to get a better chance of being recruited. Or he was unsure of his exact age. Man of mystery was Tom in the regard.
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My mother in law was born in Aug 1917 and died in Feb 1997.
Her sister took 17 away from 97 and told everyone that Maggie was 80 when she died.
And so had that age put on the memorial cards she had made up in Ireland.
Luckily I do family history and knew that she was only 79 so when my husband and I registered her death we told them that she was 79 ;D
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I'm allowed to say the following because my grandmother was Irish and so is my husband!
I have discovered that my Irish ancestors and those of my husband seemed to have no real idea of how old they were --- their birth years differ considerably from census to census and record to record.
My mother in law (and the family) - celebrated her birthday on the wrong date for absolutely years. We only discovered the error after my father in law died and we had to contact DHSS about her pension. They couldn't find her with the information we were providing!
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My great grandmother lied about her age when she got married. She is listed on her wedding certificate as being over 21. When in fact she was only 17. I had trouble locating her on the 1939 register until I widened the birth year catorgory to 5 years+/-. I found her away from her husband picking hops still with the wrong age recorded. When she died in 1948 her correct age was put on the death certificate.
Regards panda
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Even in recent times, not everyone is clear about their relatives' dates of birth.
I was saying to a relative the other day - "had he still been alive it would have been your Dad's 99th birthday tomorrow", and he replied "how do you know what year he was born in, because I don't".
That's because he doesn't think like we do. ;)
I know. ::) But I have to say, even before starting all this family history malarkey, I knew the years of my Mum and Dad's births.
And that's why we do what we do. ;D
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My 4xgt grandmother died in 1889 supposedly age 57, but according to the the censuses between 1851 and 1881 she was 32, 30, 46 and 50. At least the 50 matches up with her death age, but it means she was 11 when married in 1843. Marriage certificate say 'of full age'!.
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I suppose you could sum up very shortly the answer to the OP question
"how accurate is age on death certificate?"
It's
"not necessarily very accurate at all"
:D :D :D :D
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Strangely, I have one lady in my family who lies about her age when she married and on every census (perhaps because her husband is several years her junior), yet on her death certificate her age is spot on. Either she stopped pretending to be younger, or someone found her birth certificate. ..
Once she was dead, she could hardly keep lying, could she? :D
But in essence, until about WW1 or even WW2, there was no easy way to dispute a person's age without reference to birth certificate or baptism register. The recorders were unlikely to argue about the age they were given, unless perhaps it was blatantly wrong?
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My mother-in-law was surprised to receive an enquiry from "official channels" about her maiden aunt's upcoming 100th birthday. The old lass had only admitted to being 90! ;D
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An ancestor's age was given (by his 46 year old son) as 62 when he was probably 74.
His widow's age was given as 69 (when the eldest son was 60) when she was really aged about 81.
:)
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I work with someone who just found out the birth year on his mother's grave is a year out. Ages are misreported even today.