RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Nikita1985 on Wednesday 17 February 16 14:51 GMT (UK)
-
Hi All
I am having some trouble interpreting the writing on a WW1 service record for my gt grandfather, would anyone be able to help me please?
I know it says he was in the 53rd Sherwood Foresters and in the ajoining paperwork I have says he was a desserter at some point in 1919/1920. (He uses the name 'Harold Allwood' for this WW1 enlistment)
I know he later re-enlisted under his real name 'Frederick Holland' into the R.A.M.C in 1925 and re-engaged again in 1929, and again after that, eventually being called up for service.
Any help would be appreciated! And any ideas as to why he used an alias upon his very 1st enlistment in 1918?
Thank you!
Nikita
-
Under age, or maybe didnt want family to know ?
-
This is the other part to it....
-
Hi,
Are you sure Allwood was an alias, he has his sister down as next of kin and her surname is Allwood
too,but maybe if she was married he has used her married name as an alias.
Which part of the documents are you having trouble reading.
Regards
-
Hi yes I am pretty sure as he and his not wife record themselves as allwoods in the 1901 census even though they don't marry and become allwoods until 1918. My Gt grandfather's dad was Henry Allwood but he didn't take his surname at birth as he was illigimate so he was given his mother's surname 'holland'. That's the surname I still carry today. It is all very confusing but I am pretty sure he used an alias unless he had a brother I know nothing about that was given his dad's surname despite his mother not being married. Hope this makes sense!!
-
What I can read of it:
12 9 18 Examined by Posting Board
45th Reception Deport
Translated Cat A mobilized Derby 11 9 18
Posted 53rd ???? Sher Fors Derby 12 9 18
Next of Kin Sister Mary J Allwood
Grate Place, Darley Lane
Derby
reverse side
16 7 19 O/C unit [struggling here!] ?Proceeded on enlistment field 16.7.19 DO's No16
furlough & struck off strength dated 19/7/19
accordingly
-
The regiment is the 53rd YS bn Sherwood Foresters, the YS stands for young soldiers.
-
The second form written part looks like
In civil custody pte 9-7-20
Military custody 10-7-20
Tried at Blackdown 17-8-20 and sentenced to 84 days detention
1.Deserting His Majesty’s Service
2.Losing by neglect his regimental clothing and necessaries. Placed under stoppage of pay until he has made good the value of £12 - 1 - 3 3/4
Confirmed by G.O.C. 6th Infantry Bde. 25-8-20
? 28 days detention remitted
Sentence promulgated 27-8-20
Absent from 29-1-20
-
Not sure if this is your Harold Allwood, but on the 13 Feb 1919 the Derby Daily Telegraph reports that Absentees - Ptes Harold Allwood and Hector Archibald Wain were each committed for 7 days by Derby Borough Court
-
I am moving this to Armed Forces WW1 to see if the experts there have anything more to offer
Milly
-
As you have his 7 digit army number you can apply to the MOD for his post 1920 service. You could be lucky and have copies of his previous service. Details of applying are in the sticky section above. You should ask for a copy of his full record.
You may need to supply a copy of his death certificate.
Ken
-
Death certificate is a requirement for certain. I had to acquire one for my father's WW2 records a couple of years ago. They aren't hard to obtain though and only cost a small amount - £15 or thereabouts.
RRTB
-
Death certificate is a requirement for certain. I had to acquire one for my father's WW2 records a couple of years ago. They aren't hard to obtain though and only cost a small amount - £15 or thereabouts.
RRTB
That must have been a long while ago, the cost has been £30 for some time.
Jebber
-
Hi Jebber. Actually no, it wasn't ages ago! The Death Certificate cost about £15-18 from the City Hall in 2013. The request for the service records was £30 as stated on the MoD request form though.
Maybe there are different charges levied by different councils for the certificate?
RRTB
-
Death certificate is a requirement for certain. I had to acquire one for my father's WW2 records a couple of years ago.
Sorry, you are wrong. The subject of this question was born in 1900, making him 116. The oldest man alive in the UK today was 111 last June. Also, the last UK WW1 soldier died in 2009. So even the people running the MOD service should know that a death certificate is not required.
Ken
-
I don't want to appear argumentative as I would agree with your comment, Ken, but this is copied straight from the MoD website:
Where the consent of the immediate next of kin has been given for its release to a third party, the 25 year threshold will not apply allowing the release of all the information available under the publication scheme at any time, subject to the payment of an administration fee of £30 per record and the provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service).
Also on the Part 2 of the application forms:
You must include:
a.
The Application Part 1 (general enquirers form)
or
if you are the immediate next of kin or applying with the
consent of the Application Part 1 (next of kin form).
b.
A copy
of the serviceman’s/woman’s Death
Certificate if he/she died following
discharge from the service.
c.
If you are NOT
the spouse or civil partner of the subject at
the time of death (or parent if there was no
spouse or civil partner), you must include an adminis
tration payment [Cheque for £30 (Sterling) per record
requested] made payable to ‘
The MOD Accounting Officer
’
As I said, I agree that it should be pretty darn obvious that the person is no longer alive after 116 years! However, it would probably be better to send a copy rather than not send one and thus delay things or possibly have the application returned to sender since there is no provision made in the instructions for people over a particular age, ie centenarians. :)
RRTB
-
The key factor is if it is a Next of Kin applying. Others now have restricted access until 25 years following the subjects death. I have ordered a number of records on behalf of NoK without a death certificate if the date of birth was more that 115 years previous, and have received them once it is pointed out that the person cannot be alive.
-
Ah, that could well be the issue. My line of thinking was "send it anyway" as it can't do any harm, doesn't cost *that* much and saves any further 'proving the case through age', but I can certainly see why you said it wasn't completely necessary.
My apologies to the OP for having slightly diverted the subject.
RRTB