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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Brian Holcroft on Saturday 13 February 16 14:21 GMT (UK)
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I am unable to find Charles Jones with wife Martha Eleanor (nee Cross) married December 1856 who should be residing at 59 Eagle Street Holborn adjacent to Red Lion Square in the 1861 Census.
Is there a gap in these records?
I need to prove his birth place.
Can you help.
Brian
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Hi Brian, that area could be unfortunately within the " London missing pages 1861" but I will have a look.
Keyboard86
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Keyboard 86
Thanks for your help.
Brian
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Hi again Brian, I assume you have the couple with possibly children in 1871, could you provide details of that 1871 to hopefully assist?!
Keyboard86
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Brian, my godparents lived at 50 Eagle Street in the 1950's and up to 1962 when the place was condemed and they moved to Roehampton. I remember their dingey house split into far too many flats very well.
Doesn't help you find your family I know but it made me smile to see the name Eagle Street again!
Carol
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=712348.0
Did Bookbox not answer this?
Maureen
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Haha Maureen, I even posted the virtual same thing on that thread too ;D
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;D Well other than a duplicate post and a waste of time, at least one fellow RC has memories of Eagle Street!
Keyboard86
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;D Well other than a duplicate post and a waste of time, at least one fellow RC has memories of Eagle Street!
Keyboard86
;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Hi again Brian, the question that possibly should have been asked is that you have the baptism of a John William Jones b 9th September 1857 baptism 11th October 1857 St Andrew's Holborn Father Charles occ Carpenter Mother Martha Eleanor abode Eagle Street, you wish to know further of Charles shown as having Father William occ Stone mason at marriage 1856.
Keyboard86
PS what census returns do you have any of them on post baptism or the census return you have with Charles living in the same street as a Frederick William Jones?
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Hi again all, don't know why, I feel the need to sort this one, but have to visit my mother now, any chance of following this family in 1851 to the bitter end to see if possibly the correct William/Charles combination at 1856 marriage :)
1851 census
William Jones 57 occ Mason b Kemble, Wilts
Elizabeth 53
Samuel 19 occ Mason
Charles 17 occ Carpenter/Joiner
Henry 11
All other than William b Cirencester
Census ref HO107/1968/427/11
Keyboard86
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Shall have a look-but not tonight.
Maureen
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Keyboard 86
I have two possibilities and I seek to determine if there is a solution to be found.
1. Charles Jones b. 1834 a Carpenter in Cirencester 1851 Cs - Father William a Stonemason (as quoted on Charles Wedding Cert).
2. Charles Jones lived in Eagle St. 1841 Cs b. 1832 to Frederick William Jones a Wood Turner.
I can't find 1871 Cs record or death for Charles to differentiate between these two possibilities.
The 1861 Census if available would prove birth location if available.
Thanks for your interest.
Brian
P.S. The reply reference Bookbox is correct and identified some missing results in 1861 for Eagle St. but did not specify house numbers. Perhaps I am clutching at straws as this seems to be a brick wall.
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P.S. The reply reference Bookbox is correct and identified some missing results in 1861 for Eagle St. but did not specify house numbers.
The weblink that I supplied in the other thread does show the house numbers. Perhaps the link wasn't followed up?
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Holborn_Registration_District,_1861_Census_Street_Index_C-F
In the 1861 census, Eagle Street cut across two registration districts.
Nos. 1-4 Eagle Street, at the extreme western end of the street, came under St Giles-in-the-Fields.
These addresses are enumerated in the 1861 census at RG9/167 folio 74 page 17
No. 1 was a Chapel, no. 2 a School -- both uninhabited on census night.
Nos. 3 and 4 held several families. You may want to look for yourself.
The rest of Eagle Street -- by far the larger part -- came under Holborn registration district and is entirely missing from the 1861 census.
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Hi following the Henry from the 1851 census, he also made the trip to London by 1871, he is 31 occ Stone Cutter b Cirencester lodging at Lambeth Square
Census ref RG10/654/43/28
Keyboard86
EDIT 1881 41 occ Stone Mason b Cirencester with a Sydney & Susan Orford in household a Henry C Jones 8 months Grandson b Bromley, Kent
Census ref RG11/854/28/49
Henry Jones Orford September qtr 1880 Bromley 2a 392
Henry Jones b c 1840 Cirencester also appears to be missing from 1861 census
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Ooh, Well done keyboard86, that looks promising.
Brian, please can you let us know whereabouts on the censuses you have found John William bap.1857 I've not been able to pinpoint him.
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Hi is this your John William Jones in 1901?
John W Jones 44 occ Clerk of Works b Holborn
Eliza M 43 b St Pancras
William R 18 b Lambeth
Frank A 15 b Lambeth
Rowland P 12 b Lambeth
Ethel L 10 b Ilford, Essex
Leslie L 6 b Camberwell
Arthur E 2 b Camberwell
Census ref RG13/503/73/46
Keyboard86
PS maybe not as they are Johns in 1891census RG12/1333/23/42
No not him, found marriage, as Johns father different
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Re the Jones family living in Eagle Street on the 1841 census -
The daughter, Emma, was married from 14 Eagle Street in 1846, but the family were no longer living there by 1851. On the marriage certificate Emma names her father as Frederick William Jones - turner.
So I don't feel this family is the right one.
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Thanks for that Lily M, so what we need to know from Brian is just what is his connection to John William Jones b 1857?
Keyboard86
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Dear Keyboard 86,
Charles Jones is my 2X great grandfather and he quotes father William Stone mason on marriage to Eleanor Martha Cross. Lived 59 Eagle St when Great grandfather William Henry Jones was christened. john William Jones is Wiliam Henry Jones's (b.1859) brother. In the absence of the 1861 Cs I cannot identify his birth and thereby his parents which could be Cirencester with an alternative or Frederick William Jones a Carpenter living in Eagle st who had a son named Charles of an appropriate age.
The Cirencester connection fits well due to occupation of Wiliam Jones Stone mason whereas I am unsure that I can exclude Frederick William without proof of Charles Jones birthplace.
Without the 1861 cs i don't think this can be resolved.
Thank you for your efforts.
Brian
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Lily M,
I have only found John William Jones b 1857 on baptism records presumably he is on missing 1861 Cs.
Brian
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Keyboard 86
I should add that Eleanor Martha Jones remarried in 1868 as a widow to William Wood and died 1869
but still quoted as wife of Charles Jones on death cert. Something fishy? perhaps she was deserted William Henry Jones shipped off to Norfolk by 1871
Brian
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Hi again Brian, so who of the Jones family married someone when and where to become your direct ancestor?
That 1851 census family still looks a possible to me with William a Mason and Charles a Carpenter/Joiner?
Keyboard86
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keyboard 86
William Henry Jones b.1859 m Hannah Eastoll Wayland Norfolk 1881 are my maternal great grandparents.
W.H.Jones is son of Charles Jones and Eleanor Martha nee Cross.
I agree the Cirencestor family for Charles is a good prospect a birthplace in 1861 Cs would have confirmed.
Charles Jones son to Wood Turner Frederick William Jones is a remote possibility due to Occupation being close to Charles a carpenter is approx the right age and lived close by.
Brian