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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: mavowl on Saturday 13 February 16 13:34 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I seemed to have hit a very solid brick wall - Lizzie Sexton is with her grandparents William and France's Clark/e on the 1891 census in Ringmer. She is 11yrs old and I have found a couple of newspaper articles which confirm she was at school in Ringmer in 1891.
It states she was born in Nottingham and William and France's do have a daughter, Mary Maria who married George Saxton (not a misspelling of Sexton) born Arnold, Basford, Nottinghamshire. They married at Ringmer in 1877.
I have searched records of births and census and Lizzie does not appear to belong to them!!
The youngest daughter of William and France's is Alice c1863 and bapt.1863 at Ringmer. She married Joseph Sexton c1863, the son of Thomas and Esther Sexton of Ringmer in 1882.
The Sexton grandchildren with the Clarke's in 1891 are the children of Joseph and Alice, a son Joseph is a nurse child 4yrs with a family in Newhaven. The youngest daughter Roselie 2mths is with her mother in the workhouse on the 1891 census.
Joseph has left, probably by now in Warwickshire where he started a new family with Laura Taylor, whom he married twice, the first time bigamously, the second after Alice died in Newhaven in 1915.
I think that Lizzie may have been Alice's first child ??? Joseph is in London on the 1881 census, maybe keeping out of the way of Alice's father!! Alice is with her sister Elizabeth Kennard in Brighton, but no sign of little Lizzie ??
WHERE DID SHE GO??? Who are her parents? No birth, marriage or death registered that I can find, and only one appearance on the 1891 census.
Will be very grateful if someone can help please. Anna
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If Lizzie is Alice's, then it seems she was born before the marriage and so might well be registered under surname Clark(e)
There are some possibes: Elizabeth Ann Clarke Oct/Nov/Dec 1880 Nottingham, Lillie CLarke Oct/Nov/Dec 1800 Nottingham
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Hi again,
Meant to say I have searched for her as Clark/e as well as Sexton and Saxton. Have searched marriages and then x referenced them via the census to see if it is 'our' Lizzie. Also searched births and deaths under all names mentioned.
I have tried for at least 10yrs now, keep coming back to her as she just must be somewhere??!!
What am I not seeing?? This is my first request for help.
Thanks to all.
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Here is the full 1891, to save us all looking it up.
Seems to be some sort of grandchildren get together on census night!!
Norlington Lane, Ringmer
William Clarke 67 labourer bn Ringmer
Fanny 64 bn Ringmer
Frank Clarke 22 grandson unm blacksmith bn Ringmer
Lizzie Sexton 11 granddtr bn Nottingham
John W Kennard 10 grandson bn Brighton
George Sexton 9 grandson bn Brighton
Charlie Sexton 7 bn Newhaven
Frank Sexton 6 bn Ringmer
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741500.msg5880876
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Related thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741498.new#new
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Sorry, Mavowl, I forgot to say Welcome to Rootschat, I missed that it was your first post.
To reply, to continue the "conversation", you do not need to start a new thread.
Just click on the "reply" button at the bottom of this one.
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I have asked a moderator to merge the two threads. :)
Welcome to rootschat from me too mavowl. ;D
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Where are George and Mary Maria Saxton in 1881?
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Thanks for the welcome all. Liz db. John W Kennard, grandson, seems to live permantly with them. The Sexton children are there because their mother Alice is in the workhouse with baby Roselie, and Joseph cared for as a nurse child. There must have been a limit as to how many the Clarke's could accommodate or afford to feed!
Thanks, but have checked out possible Clark/e births in Nottinghamshire and Sussex, not to say that I could not have missed an entry so all ideas very welcome and I will recheck what is offered.
I have not been able to find George and Mary Maria Saxton on the 1881 census either. If Alice had been with them to have her baby, if Lizzie is hers? Could they have brought her home to Sussex and have been travelling back at that time, missing the census?
Thanks too Ruskie for arranging linking of my 2 messages - my first time ever to use a chat forum.
Lizzie could have been with Alice in Brighton at her Sister Elizabeth's home, but not mentioned?
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Be back later, 2am here, well past time for bed !
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The fact that Lizzie was born Nottingham suggests to me she is more likely to be a child of George and Mary Maria
They were in Nottingham at the time
HEre they are in 1891
Red hill Shop, Arnold, Nottingham
George Saxton 40 grocer bn Arnold
Mary 39 bn Ringmer Sussex
Francis 12
Alice Ellen 10
Annie 8
Caroline 2 children all bn Arnold
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The family are transcribed as HEATON on the 1881 census on A*try.
I wonder about the one listed as Mary C born 1880?
Maureen
EDIT: Quite possibly the Mary Elizabeth SAXTON born Dec Qtr 1879 in Basford.
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This would tie in with the one Maureen found - from freereg
Bestwood - Emmanuel Church
Elizabeth Mary
Baptism 09 May 1880
Birth 04 Nov 1879
abode Redhill Arnold
Father George SAXTON mother Mary
Fathers occupation Keeper
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The fact that Lizzie was born Nottingham suggests to me she is more likely to be a child of George and Mary Maria
They were in Nottingham at the time
HEre they are in 1891
Red hill Shop, Arnold, Nottingham
George Saxton 40 grocer bn Arnold
Mary 39 bn Ringmer Sussex
Francis 12
Alice Ellen 10
Annie 8
Caroline 2 children all bn Arnold
Thanks for this, it confirms that I had looked at the right record. Yes, your hunch is right, she does belong to George and Mary. She was registered as Mary Elizabeth but baptised Elizabeth Mary.
I still have not found her on any census after the 1891 and not found a marriage or death for her yet.
I think some days that I am losing my touch, things don't seem to turn up like they used to!!
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The family are transcribed as HEATON on the 1881 census on A*try.
I wonder about the one listed as Mary C born 1880?
Maureen
EDIT: Quite possibly the Mary Elizabeth SAXTON born Dec Qtr 1879 in Basford.
Hello Maureen, How on earth did you find them as HEATON on the 1881 census? I am not getting too old to learn some new ways of finding elusive folk.
That is just great, what a big hole that fills.
Annie died Mch qtr 1901 - 17yrs
George died Mch qtr 1905 - 56yrs
Mary Maria died 29 Aug 1917 - 66yrs
Francis died in WW1 on 12 Oct 1917 in France. He was engaged to a Madge Finney (from doth notice)
Alice Ellen died 29 Nov 1940 - 59yrs - she did not marry
Elizabeth Mary (Lizzie) 1879, and Caroline 1886'. I am still looking for ??
Thanks so much for your help.
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This would tie in with the one Maureen found - from freereg
Bestwood - Emmanuel Church
Elizabeth Mary
Baptism 09 May 1880
Birth 04 Nov 1879
abode Redhill Arnold
Father George SAXTON mother Mary
Fathers occupation Keeper
Hi Rosie, Thank you very much for the baptism you found of Elizabeth Mary (Lizzie) . It is great that after all the years I have tried to find Lizzie from the 1891 census when she was with her grandparents in Sussex, so much help has produced her in such a short time..
I had never thought of joining a group such as this before, didn't,t know it existed until I came across it the other day.
Thanks again, now I will continue to pursue other avenues to find out where she went??
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George left a Will, might be worth getting in case it names married daughters, but of ocurse he may have left everything to his wife.
MAry Maria did not leave a Will, spinster daughter administered the estate
But Alice Ellen DID leave a Will. Hers may well be worth getting. Not being married she may well have named brothers, sisters, nephews and Nieces as beneficiaries.
Probate index entry:
Alice Ellen Saxton of 77 Church Drive Daybrook Arnold Nottingham spinster died 29 Nov 1940 Probate to Midland Bank Executor and Probate Trustee Company Efffects £1555 11s 11d
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Looking at the address, I would say this is the missing Lizzie!
Probate index entry
Elizabeth Mary Saxton otherwise Elizabeth of 77 Church Drive Daybrook Nottinghamshire died 1 MArch 1966 at The Old HAll Balderton Newark Nottinghamshire Probate to Harold McCaig Milne Bank Official £537
Yes - age is right.
Death
March 1966
Newark
Ref 3c 301
Elizabeth M Saxton
age 86
Seems she never married either
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George left a Will, might be worth getting in case it names married daughters, but of ocurse he may have left everything to his wife.
MAry Maria did not leave a Will, spinster daughter administered the estate
But Alice Ellen DID leave a Will. Hers may well be worth getting. Not being married she may well have named brothers, sisters, nephews and Nieces as beneficiaries.
Probate index entry:
Alice Ellen Saxton of 77 Church Drive Daybrook Arnold Nottingham spinster died 29 Nov 1940 Probate to Midland Bank Executor and Probate Trustee Company Efffects £1555 11s 11d
Hi Liz, I hunted around on Google and found the Gov.UK web site with the Probate Indexes and have ordered Alice Ellen's, as being quite late, as you said it could provide more information than her fathers. Will let you know when it comes through.
Thank you very much for your work, sounds as if you like a challenge too.
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Looking at the address, I would say this is the missing Lizzie!
Probate index entry
Elizabeth Mary Saxton otherwise Elizabeth of 77 Church Drive Daybrook Nottinghamshire died 1 MArch 1966 at The Old HAll Balderton Newark Nottinghamshire Probate to Harold McCaig Milne Bank Official £537
Yes - age is right.
Death
March 1966
Newark
Ref 3c 301
Elizabeth M Saxton
age 86
Seems she never married either
Liz, I am amazed at how quickly you find things, just a few days ago I was completely at a dead end with "Lizzie", stuck at 1891 census for many years, and now you have found her at the end of her life.
I had come back to her many times as it bugged me that she was "lost". These sisters must be among the folk who wouldn't open their doors to the census takers !! And there must have been many of them who have left their descendants endlessly searching them out.
I will order her will as well, and will let you all know the results. They have said 10-14 days for Alice Ellen's. The older they are, the longer they take apparently, so don,t think I have forgotten you.
THANK YOU ALL.
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Could this be her in 1911? It's in the right area
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWSH-TQV
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Caroline is at home in 1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWSH-5FV
She marries William Holbrook later that year and dies 19 march 1959. her estate is administered by her husband, a retired schoolmaster. Address is... 77 Church Drive, Daybrook, Nottingham
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:) :) :)
Great team work!
mavowl-
Such a nice family to research.
Your group was/is pretty easy to find in 1881 on A*try.
Wildcards*** just using Fran* born 1879 (plus or minus 2) with father as Geo* and mother Mar* and keyword as Arnold. The HEATON bunch just had to be correct. (I can't blame the transcriber for that effort!). :)
Maureen
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Address is... 77 Church Drive, Daybrook, Nottingham
Now that sounds familiar!
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Caroline is at home in 1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWSH-5FV
She marries William Holbrook later that year and dies 19 march 1959. her estate is administered by her husband, a retired schoolmaster. Address is... 77 Church Drive, Daybrook, Nottingham
Thankyou Mabel, I had noted that marriage just before turning off for the night. What a lovely surprise to see this morning that you had followed it through and confirmed it was "our" Caroline.
77 Church Drive, Daybrook, was very definitely the family home!!
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Address is... 77 Church Drive, Daybrook, Nottingham
Now that sounds familiar!
It certainly does Liz.
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:) :) :)
Great team work!
mavowl-
Such a nice family to research.
Your group was/is pretty easy to find in 1881 on A*try.
Wildcards*** just using Fran* born 1879 (plus or minus 2) with father as Geo* and mother Mar* and keyword as Arnold. The HEATON bunch just had to be correct. (I can't blame the transcriber for that effort!). :)
Maureen
Hi Maureen, Thanks for that advice, I have not done a search like that on A:try. Must use it more often, may take out sub. I am with FindMyPast, looked up the Heaton transcription and reported the faults.
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Church Drive, Daybrook
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4759671
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Church Drive, Daybrook
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4759671
Liz, is the anything that you can't come up with? What a nice looking street, homely. And you have introduced me to yet another interesting and useful website. Thank you.
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Liz, is the anything that you can't come up with?
Oh, plenty!
Agree with MaureeninNY, a lovely family to research.
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[quote author=lizdb link=topic=741498.msg5881842#msg5881842 date=145546
"But Alice Ellen DID leave a Will. Hers may well be worth getting. Not being married she may well have named brothers, sisters, nephews and Nieces as beneficiaries".
Probate index entry:
Alice Ellen Saxton of 77 Church Drive Daybrook Arnold Nottingham spinster died 29 Nov 1940 Probate to Midland Bank Executor and Probate Trustee Company Efffects £1555 11s 11d
[/quote]
Hi Liz, Have got the copy of Alice Ellen's will now. Main points are:- (a) One hundred guineas to my sister Carrie Holbrook. (b) Fifty guineas to my nephew Jim Holbrook. (c) Ten guineas to my cousin Bertha Lacey. (d) Five guineas to the son of my cousin Bertha Lacey, Gordon Lacey.
(e) Two guineas to Frank Lacey for the Red Hill Chapel.
The residue of my estate after payment of just debts, expenses and legacies to my sister Elizabeth Saxton for her own use and benefit absolutely.
No mention of her neice Sheila Sedivy nee Holbrook? I am waiting now for the will of Elizabeth to see what it has to offer!
Regards mavowl