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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: reidfd on Tuesday 09 February 16 01:46 GMT (UK)
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Family story says Marguerite Cecilia CRAIG was born C.1889 in "Northern Ireland". Her parents (supposedly) were Marguerite (nee) White and Cecil CRAIG (from marriage record of Marguerite Cecilia in Toronto, Canada). Which direction should I be taking to find Marguerite Cecilia's birth in Northern Ireland please? Putting feelers out!
Cheers
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You've posted under Resources which isn't for queries- just click on 'report to moderator' and ask for this topic to be moved to Ireland board.
GRONI (which covers civil registration in Northern Ireland) has an online database and I searched for possible birth after not finding a Marguerite Cecile Craig in the civil registration index on www.familysearch.org. I just put in Craig as surname and White as mother's name 1887-1891 and cam up with 2 records (looks like twins?)-
William Craig, born 1 Feb.1888, Belfast district
female Craig, born 1 Feb.1888, Belfast district
Either or both can be viewed through GRONI's site for a few credits-
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
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Thank you. My query has been moved from Resources to Ireland as you suggested. I have also ordered copies of birth certificates for the twins and hope this gives me leads to verify whether this is indeed Marguerite Cecilia CRAIG. It would prove to be very interesting if Marguerite was a twin. I believe she was sent to Canada at a young age and this could explain why knowledge of a twin was lost?
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just to note this marriage in Belfast in 1883 William Craig and Elizabeth White
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/11828c7274229
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You can view the certificates online for a few credits on GRONI's own site as I said in reply #1.
just to note this marriage in Belfast in 1883 William Craig and Elizabeth White
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/11828c7274229
Which doesn't match parents as being Cecil Craig & Marguerite White :-\ Wonder why you say 'supposedly' in the original post, reidfd? What about her death certificate?
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2788-WDF
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Birth certificates for twins have now been viewed on line. Parents recorded as William Robert Craig & Elizabeth Craig (nee) White. "Supposedly" used in original query because the only evidence to date of parents names is from FamilySearch.org, re Marguerite Cecilia Craig's marriage to James Edward Fitton in Toronto, Canada. If family story is correct that Marguerite Cecilia was sent alone to Canada at an early age she may not have known who her parents were?
Transcription agent has provided me with a Death Transcription from NSW (Australia) Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages for Marguerite Celilia. Informant was eldest son. Name shown as Margaret Cecilia Fitton. Mother and father recorded as unknown. Place of birth shown as Ireland. I believe this record demonstrates a lack of knowledge of detail by son. Family Story is that Marguerite Cecilia was born in Belfast, but no proven evidence nor shipping record from Ireland to Canada.
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clutching at straws here but have you tried Scotland ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSN8-WYM
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What you've last posted puts a slightly different slant on things. When did Marguerite come to Canada? Was she a Home Child? there may be other ways to find records if we had a bit more detail.
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Dathai posting 10 Feb 16 08:28 - Don't know what to make of 1883 wedding William Craig and Elizabeth White. Surnames and date look right, but first names do not match as noted by aghadowey 16 09:44
Dathai posting 10 Feb 16 14:01 - Thank you for Family Search link. Affidavit confirms Place of Birth as Ireland (Northern Ireland formed later in 1921)
Dathai posting 11 Feb 16 08:47 - Have now searched Scottish records without success. Tried Marguerite (and variations) White and Craig for subject person and mother. Similar for Ireland. No luck. Marguerite's daughter (deceased) known to have heard Marguerite say she was born in Ireland.
aghadowey posting 11 Feb 16 09:02 - We do not know what age Marguerite was when she went to Canada. Full Window is C.1888 birth and 1915 marriage. Re your Home Child question, we have several photographs taken when she was a young lady, say 16 to 18 years. In each she is well dressed in company with serveral other well dressed young ladies. In others she is in well dressed mixed company of similar age. There is yet another photo with well dressed mixed company of young but varying ages. Marguerite is of a similar age in all of these photos. Marguerite's daughter said her mother was well educated.
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Again clutching at straws wonder would it be worth your while doing a search on this family purely because of combination of names Cecil and Cecilia
Reference to Emily Craigs Will on P R O N I Wills 1938 Dunmurray,Antrim
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx
also on search archives here granted at Dublin to Rev Cecil Henry Stewart Craig.
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search-the-archives/
http://www.geni.com/people/Emily-Craig/360186240580005399
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obviously too young to be her father
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/King_s_Co_/Tullamore_Urban/Tullamore/561145/
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Family tree for the above mentioned Emily Cecilia Craig-
http://www.featherstone.org/getperson.php?personID=I24509&tree=Featherstone_Main
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their marriage
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-298-3-14-053
his birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRWB-VH5
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Was this a straw after all? Robert Stewart Craig married Emily Cecilia Fetherstonhaugh married in 1899. Thus the union of the names occurred 10 or 11 years after Marguerite Cecilia Craig was born. The thought that Marguerite was a home child is attractive. Would this explain changes of name in that period. If so, aghadowey posting 9 Feb 16 09:48 re birth of twins may be a good bet, because the DoB fits. How to validate this assumption though? Maybe also, dathai postings are also correct if Rev Robert Stewart Craig was the father there may have been a pressing need to hide public knowledge of the births, given he was a man of the cloth.
There must also be a shipping record for Marguerite's transfer to Canada. I have previously assumed she was about 5 or 6 years of age, but this may be a gross error and I will have to widen the age period from birth to marriage.
I will be away for a few days.
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Family story (from Marguerite's daughter now deceased) has it that Marguerite's husband was not very civil towards her and that she was excluded on occasions from having input on the pretext that she was "only a bastard" (in the true meaning of the word). Accordingly, there is a high probably that although there are parents nominated on Marguerite's wedding documents, they were not married. Sorry I have not thought to offer this before.
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Wonder if her marriage cert might give more info re address that you could trace back to possibly find her on a census or her schooling where she was educated.
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Your last post greatly changes what we might need to be searching for. If Marguerite was illegitimate then her birth should be registered under whatever her mother's surname was at the time
Do you have Marguerite in any Canadian census records?
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h2l/
note the witness George Walter Pym and Ellen Pym
they got married in 1913 and note the witness Marguerite White something funny going on ? at least there is an address 430 Parliament ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKM5-MPP2
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Very interesting, dathai. Notice that Ellen Shephard/Sheppard born Portadown, Ireland- could she be a link to Marguerite Cecilia Craig? Marguerite also listed as Methodist when married.
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Here's Ellen's family in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Portadown_Urban/Bridge_Street/1028859
and 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Portadown_Urban/West_Street/301101
Walker Shepherd, wife Sarah & daughter Ellen to Canada in May 1912. Ellen Pymm died 1966 British Columbia.
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aghadowey & dathai. Looks likely that Marguerite may have used her mothers maiden name at some stage and lived in 430 Parliament and friend Ellen Shepard lived in 420 Parliament prior to Ellen's marriage to George Pymm. Both buildings can be viewed on Google Earth at street level. I am more and more convinced that Marguerite and probably Ellen Shepard were Home Children. But I have not found them in the records I have searched.
I have found a Margaret Craig in the 1911 Canadian census, born 1888 in Scotland. This person was a single lodger in a large family of Scot's (Stephens), so being listed as being born in Scotland would be logical error. But even if this is Marguerite, it is difficult to see this getting us closer to determining where she came from in Ireland. Link as follows:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27X3-5TX
I have spent much time looking at shipping records from Ireland to Canada and some Canadian sites listing children in care, all to no avail.
Thank you for your efforts. Looking more and more unlikely that the origin of Marguerite Cecilia Craig will remain a mystery.
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Correction to last line of my previous communication.
"Thank you for your efforts. Looking more and more likely that the origin of Marguerite Cecilia Craig will remain a mystery."
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I am more and more convinced that Marguerite and probably Ellen Shepard were Home Children. But I have not found them in the records I have searched. ... but Ellen Shepherd was NOT a Home Child- she came to Canada with her parents-
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Walker Shepherd, wife Sarah & daughter Ellen to Canada in May 1912. Ellen Pymm died 1966 British Columbia.
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aghadowey, my apologies, I forgot your earlier comment when writing. I have found no further information since writing.
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Have you tried posting on the Canadian Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=654740.msg0;boardseen#new
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Have now posted on Canada Board. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Have found Cecilia Craig on Findmypast which provided the following details:
First name - Cecilia
Last name - Craig
Registration Year 1891
Registered quarter/year - July - September 1891
Registration district - Londonderry
Volume - 2
Page - 132
Mother's last name - blank
County - Donegal, Londonderry (Derry)
Country - Ireland
Record set - Irish Births 1864-1958
Category - Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory - Births & baptisms
Collections from - Ireland
Would appreciate advice on how to look deeper into this record to determine where this is the correct person. Hope I am not going in circles!
Thank you
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The same record is on Family Search- although it gives Londonderry as the registration district it's not coming up in GRONI's index-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBDY-R4Q
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aghadowey
I feel that there is a good chance that these records refer to Marguerite Cecilia Craig. Thanks for trying.
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aghadowey
I feel that there is a good chance that these records refer to Marguerite Cecilia Craig. Thanks for trying.
"I feel that there is a good chance" ... before you make that leap, be aware that a Cecilia Craig was born on 24 August 1891 to father (farmer) Charles Craig and Mary Green with the address Carnaghan Inch.
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Definitely not her then. Thank you
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Definitely not her then. Thank you
Okay.... good luck going forward...