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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex Lookup Requests => Sussex => England => Sussex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: petmas on Monday 08 February 16 09:49 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone identify this tower? It is on a PC posted Eastbourne 1905 so presumably local to there, Thanks P
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A complete guess - but maybe Beachy Head?
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Possibly or I thought maybe Holywell, hoping for a definite
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I would think there are too many trees/bushes for Beachy Head. Any chance of making that notice any clearer as that might give a clue?
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My thoughts too on the landscape, notice doesn't come any clearer -how about Crows nest opposite Chesterfield Rd? Must have been a reason for the name
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Have you tried Googling the publishers of the postcard? If they are still in business they may have records. I recently tracked down the subject of a picture postcard this way but only going back to the 1930s. Still it may be worth a punt.
Clive
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nice idea Clive, sadly no publisher/photographer
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It looks like an observation platform? But observing what?!
It isn't very tall (maybe 20 ft) so I wouldn't think it was (for example) on the east side of Eastbourne, as that's flat! Not much of a view from that height.
That's why I thought of somewhere like Beachy Head - it would afford a safe view, withut getting too close to the cliff edge?
What else is there near Eastbourne that people would need to be 20 ft high to view?
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I agree it looks like some sort of Observation Tower, but I know that area quite well and the vegetation doesn't look right to me. Beachy Head is short grass and very little else, especially near the edge!
Might be worth contacting these people to see if they know where it was
http://www.eastbournehistory.org.uk/
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Good evening,
Beachy Head is 531 ft so hardly any need for a tower to see anything. Even if you stand back from the edge a bit.
the area near the wish tower is a little more likely or somewhere away from the seafront. Have looked at all the old photo's I can find online but it doesn't appear.
The card may have been purchased away from Eastbourne but posted after return to home or hotel/guesthouse.
John915
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I wish we were able to read what the notice was warning about! I wonder whether anyone on the photo restoration board could make it clearer?
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Good evening,
Beachy Head is 531 ft so hardly any need for a tower to see anything. Even if you stand back from the edge a bit.
the area near the wish tower is a little more likely or somewhere away from the seafront. Have looked at all the old photo's I can find online but it doesn't appear.
The card may have been purchased away from Eastbourne but posted after return to home or hotel/guesthouse.
John915
Me too John, been looking since this first went up, can't find anything remotely similar. :(
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http://maps.nls.uk/view/101436270
The "Crow's Nest" is marked on this 1898 map. It's not a building - so what is it?
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http://maps.nls.uk/view/101436270
The "Crow's Nest" is marked on this 1898 map. It's not a building - so what is it?
It's part of the cliff I think and the path along it
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1404834
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Good morning,
Quite a few sites about crows nest walk, leads from the wishtower area up past hollywell. There is something opposite chesterfieldrdas mentioned before. Could be the tower was sited there but can't find any reference to it.
I will e_mail my cousin to see what he knows about it. He worked at the council planning office before he emigrated to Wales😂😂😂😂.
John915
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In the link follow the skyline of the hill top, there is a house then further to the right on the skyline is a smaller construction that could be a wood tower. Click on the photo to enlarge
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Postcard-Holywell-Retreat-Eastbourne-Sussex-posted-1907-/181993428984?hash=item2a5fa757f8:g:o50AAOSwuYVWmlqi
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I'm certainly no expert here, but how about doing a higher res. scan, then cropping out the notice, and posting.
Undoubtedly you other clever people will know if this could make the notice a bit clearer?
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No, definitely not Beachy Head, or anywhere in that vicinity.
It looks to me to be along the path that runs up to the Downs from the town of Eastbourne. There is a place called The Crow's Nest as someone has pointed out. This is a feature today and is raised above the path with a sort of view point and seats.
http://ukbeaches.guide/photos/uk-photos.php?photo=1404834
The background of the photo looks to be similar to that area.
Otherwise, the Holywell area would be another possibility. There was a monastery up there until the early 1900s when it was destroyed by fire. Could this have been set up in that area? I tend to think it is lower down as the views from the higher elevations are good enough as they are at the lower levels of the South Downs.
I imagine the wooden structure would have been taken down some time ago. You can try this:
http://www.eastbournemuseums.co.uk/
Jo.
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Thanks for everything so far folks. I'm favouring Crow's Nest as the tower is on a little tump. The notice is illegible no matter how it's played with :( . As to being bought elsewhere- very possible, I've got a nagging idea of a tower at Heathfield Park tho' I doubt it was open to the public in 1905
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The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
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Thanks for everything so far folks. I'm favouring Crow's Nest as the tower is on a little tump. The notice is illegible no matter how it's played with :( . As to being bought elsewhere- very possible, I've got a nagging idea of a tower at Heathfield Park tho' I doubt it was open to the public in 1905
Pictures of the Gibralta Tower, Heathfield Park on tinternet...it's round and made of stone though :-\
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The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
That has to be some sort of clue to the location doesn't it? Can't think where though.
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Good evening,
The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
That has to be some sort of clue to the location doesn't it? Can't think where though.
Wouldn't have thought you needed a parachute from that height ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
John915
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Back again,
Just picked up e-mail from my cousin, he doesn't know anything about it or it's location, He does however still have contacts in the research section of Eastbourne Historical Society.
Will let you know if they come up with anything.
John915
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Good evening,The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
That has to be some sort of clue to the location doesn't it? Can't think where though.
Wouldn't have thought you needed a parachute from that height ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
John915
But EVERYTHING'S gone up so much sine 1905!! ;D ;D ;D
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Don't they practice jumping from low heights and landing properly? If that notice is real, I would think the tower must have been somewhere near an airfield or training camp. You don't see that sort of notice on other structures do you?
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"I imagine the wooden structure would have been taken down some time ago".
I hope so. The Solicitors would salivate at the sight of it. It is a tremendous liability in 2016. Even when it was new people could still vandalize it or fall off it. Unless we can find out what it was, and it served a useful purpose, it seems a little pointless to me.
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Don't they practice jumping from low heights and landing properly? If that notice is real, I would think the tower must have been somewhere near an airfield or training camp. You don't see that sort of notice on other structures do you?
Get real- this is 1905! parachutes had been used by balloonists but aircraft were still flying at head height
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"I imagine the wooden structure would have been taken down some time ago".
I hope so. The Solicitors would salivate at the sight of it. It is a tremendous liability in 2016. Even when it was new people could still vandalize it or fall off it. Unless we can find out what it was, and it served a useful purpose, it seems a little pointless to me.
It looks sturdy and well build, also has ornamental finials, it does not need a purpose as such, could it not be classed as a folly. Something someone built just for the sake of it. Viewing his land or garden perhaps?
Suey
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Hello
My Husband remembers,when he was a kid ,a Structure looking like that at North Seat,Hastings, Sussex which is the highest point in Hastings.Not sure if its still there .Not to far from Eastbourne.
omega
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Thanks Omega, thought we had it cracked, found a photo of the tower at North Seat , similar but a larger overhanging platform and the stairway comes in from the back at an angle. http://www.1066online.co.uk/gallery/old-photos/north-seat-viewing-platform (http://www.1066online.co.uk/gallery/old-photos/north-seat-viewing-platform)
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"I imagine the wooden structure would have been taken down some time ago".
I hope so. The Solicitors would salivate at the sight of it. It is a tremendous liability in 2016. Even when it was new people could still vandalize it or fall off it. Unless we can find out what it was, and it served a useful purpose, it seems a little pointless to me.
This picture is from those halcyon days before the parasites on society (aka solicitors) got their teeth into everyday life! ;D
And also before those horrendous people at Health & Safety were imagined! ;D
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You beat me to it Petmas,found the same Web Site.
Maybe Judges Postcards can help.
omega
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Just when it was looking good, seems North Seat was built 1929 (which looks right for the cloche hat in the photo) and rebuilt post war so unless there was one pre 1929 the hunt goes on.
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I think it is a military observation tower, used by the Royal artillery to observe the fall of shot, possibly on a military testing area.
Seemingly Royal artillery observers used tethered balloons also for this purpose, filled with hydrogen they caught fire very easily, the observers then abandoned the balloon by parachute.
Still don't know the location tho.
Mike
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Good evening,
My cousin has had one reply from EHS. Not recognized as being in Eastbourne but may have been on Firehill at Fairlight. It overlooks part of Hastings and has had several different towers built on top.
John915
PS, it looks too fancy to be military, by design they were usually much more utilitarian.
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I still think that notice must be a clue - it must have been somewhere near a training ground, otherwise why bother to post it?
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Back again,
A little research shows that balloon observers first used parachutes in WW1. So 9 years after the card was posted.
These were fairly primitive, the men wore a waist harness which the lines were attached to. The parachute itself was store in a bag hanging from the balloon. When they jumped the lines were pulled from the bag followed by the chute. I guess which way up you landed was anybodies guess.
John915
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The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
Are you winding us all up, Malky?
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The notice says,
NOTICE
Do not use for parachute training.
The tower is out of bounds to the military.
By order, The War Department.
Regards
Malky
Are you winding us all up, Malky?
:o :o Surely not! ;D ;D
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It would seem that Parachute Training begun with very low jump practice. Below from a Japanese article, I don't imagine British training would have been so very different! Interesting!
" In the second stage of training, jumps from tables are begun, with the height gradually increased to 12 feet. Methods of hitting the ground and rolling are mastered, preparatory to undertaking jumps with training parachutes, from platforms 12 to 235 feet in height, which feature the third stage of training. During the second and third stages, much attention is paid to instruction in the proper folding, maintenance, and routine inspection of parachutes. Jumps also are made from model plane fuselages at varying heights. Familiarization flights in planes also are made. Aerial acrobatics after the second flight serve to eliminate trainees prone to airsickness or otherwise physically or temperamentally unfit.
Parachute jumps from towers 350 to 400 feet high feature the fourth stage. The chutes are opened by static lines, and oscillation control and steering by manipulation of the shrouds receive suitable emphasis. Control of the parachute also is taught by dangling, with the trainees suspended from the roof of a hangar.
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Lets forget the parachute story which is so obviously tongue in cheek and get back to the facts. Photo is 1905, the structure is ornate so not likely to be military. It is seemingly not Eastbourne nor North Seat Hastings. The notice is illegible. Posted in Eastbourne to an address in Hurst Green by a 21 yr old disabled girl to her mother saying she had arrived safely. Is Firehills a goer?
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"Lets forget the parachute story"
Yes, lets forget that one. It went down like a lead baloon!!
My initial thought, considering the date, and the 4 individual compass point platforms, was a upper class (Estate) raised shooting platform for Pheasant and Partridge shooting.
But I could be wrong.
Regards
Malky
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Good morning,
I couldn't find any pictures of this tower at firehill, only a reference to one of that sort of height built near the coastguard lookout. It sometimes takes a while to find all pictures, it depends on how you search. Just putting in "pictures of ?" Doesn't always bring results.
Having worked as a beater on a large shoot in my younger days I would discount that theory. You would need a great many of them, one for every gun repeated on each drive. Pheasant, grouse, partridge etc are shot by guns in a line at ground level with the birds being driven towards them by the beaters.
If Malki was able to blow the notice up large enough and clear enough to read perhaps he could post the blow up 😁😁😁😁😁.
John915
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Would be it worthwhile sending this photo to a local paper in Eastbourne? There may be someone who can help identify the location.
There is The Eastbourne Herald and Eastbourne Gazette.
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/
Since the card was posted in Eastbourne, I imagine the location must be within travelling distance of there, bearing in mind in 1905, travel would be limited.
Jo.
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Look what was on Ebay, is that your postcard, it is addressed to Mrs Baldock in Hurst Green?
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/401006913533
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Note that it is postmarked Eastbourne, July 15, 1905.
Jo.
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That s the one ;D. It features on a long running post on Sussex History Forum.
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Good afternoon,
My cousin sent me a little more info from his contacts. Norths seat at Fairlight was suggested.
http://www.1066online.co.uk/gallery/old-photos?page=97
It is not the correct one but when you look both could have been built by the same carpenter. Or maybe the one was the first remodeled. The similarities are there in the styling.
If not the same place then the postcard tower may not be far away, Eastwards maybe?
John915
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Thanks John, that's the same one I refer to on page 4. Apparently built 1929 and nothing similar recorded there before.
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The facts suggest it was taken at a location near to Eastbourne. The card must have been bought in Eastbourne and the written contents indicate the sender had only recently arrived there. It is unlikely the card would be for somewhere miles away.
I suggest an approach to the local paper as posted previously.
Jo.
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That s the one ;D. It features on a long running post on Sussex History Forum.
I suggest an approach to the local paper as posted previously.
Jo.
We might be flogging a dead horse here if it has already been on a Sussex History forum and no one from that area recognised it! It does seem odd that it appeared on a postcard, yet no one can find its location.
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One thought-that as it has no printers name etc on was it a photo taken at the time by say a beach photographer? not unusual for a photo to have a postcard printing on the back of that size paper. I have belonged to SHF since the start and there aren't too many Sussex members as it started in Kent and has gradually grown Westwards to include Sussex, Surrey Hants & IOW
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Have you tried contacting this site?
http://www.sussexpostcards.info/
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Good evening,
If we assume the sender also came from Hurst Green then she most likely travelled by road to Eastbourne. Or by road to Etchingham then on by train to Eastbourne.
So the card could have been purchased on route, maybe a lunch stop halfway or so.
By main road it would be via Hastings and along the coast. Or via Heathfield then southwards. Maybe they were more adventurous and went cross country on minor rds. Whichever route it leaves open a whole load of possibilities now.
John915
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This might be silly, but what about putting something on the Armed Forces Board.
If as it seems, this type of installion is similar to others around the coastlines, it's possible that someone on that forum has a bit of knowledge about them that may help to track it down??
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I just saw a post on The Lighter Side, thread "So where Are You From", post 21 today.
This Member Clairec666 says Eastbourne is her home town, where she spent her entire childhood!
She may be able to cast some light on the whereabouts of the tower?
You might like to PM her and refer her to this thread?
Jeanne
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Please do and if anyone else wants to spread it about please feel free. P
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OK! I've sent her a PM. Be great if she has something that might help you!
Cheers
Jeanne
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Had a reply from my PM to Clairec666. She is not familiar with the photo, but is going to show it to her parents and see if they can shed any light on it. Fingers and toes crossed!
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Had a reply from my PM to Clairec666. She is not familiar with the photo, but is going to show it to her parents and see if they can shed any light on it. Fingers and toes crossed!
I do hope so...
My family used to spend their holidays in Eastbourne, my brother who is a lot older than me says he can't remember anything like it...along with "blimey sis I'm not that old ::) ;D"
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Hi folks, I've not been able to find anyone who recognises the tower, but I'll have a flick through the local history books that my parents have, and see if it appears anywhere.
Also I can report that the photo appeared in the local paper yesterday with an appeal for information. Good luck!
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Thanks Claire, that's very good of you, and really prompt action on your part! I'm sure Petmas will be tickled that it's gone into the local paper!
Fingers crossed they'll get some responses.
Jeanne 😄
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Petmas is indeed tickled ;D Thanks for doing that Claire, hopefully get some results
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👍👍👍👍👍😃
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Earlier this week I sent an E-Mail to The Eastbourne Herald with the postcard of the tower (and the obverse) together with a request for information.
I lived in Eastbourne recently and have knowledge of the town for some decades but have never come across anything resembling this, or mentioning it. Some years ago, I took an interest in the history of the town and surrounding area. Again, I cannot recall anything like this.
The only query I have is what were the origins of the "Crow's Nest"? This location would fit with the background in the postcard photo. It also sits in a position with a good viewpoint of the coast and sea for miles. Could the structure have been named "The Crow's Nest|" as it had such a strange appearance?
Jo.
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The Crows Nest shows on the 1899 OS map but not on the 1875 or 1879
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I'm wondering if it could have been a gun placement of some sort. Just read an interesting Wiki about the Redoubt, and how different elements of it were used later!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbourne_Redoubt#The_World_Wars_and_later
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I don't think so, too flimsy & elaborate for artillery use even as an observation post
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I think it is the old Lookout Platform that i was told at The Stage, Silverhill, Hurst Green. Lived their during the war. Never saw it myself,but was told about a viewing platform built by the Victorians. Hope that helps
Jimf
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No image but possibly "The Stage". About half way down in the article" Paragraph Number 4
http://www.theargus.co.uk/magazine/sussex_walks/9996723.Hurst_Green_circular/
There is a possibility that Jimf can recognize the area from the walking paths that are described.
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Hurst Green is looking good https://www.flickr.com/photos/ttelyob/4997919053
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Looks identical to me, well done jimf.
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I think that is it. Hurst Green. Two photographs taken form opposite sides. The spiked globes clinch the deal.
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So it looks as if she took the postcard with her ready to post as soon as she arrived! That fooled everyone. ;D ;D
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So it looks as if she took the postcard with her ready to post as soon as she arrived! That fooled everyone. ;D ;D
But we always gave our daughters a pre-written and stamped postcard when they went away, once
one of them remembered to post it. ;D ;D
Mike
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Well done!
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FANTASTIC!!! Thanks everyone
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So pleased the mystery is solved..
Don't you just love the power of Rootschat ;D There's always "a man who knows a man" to answer a question ;D
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The Chief Reporter with The Eastbourne Herald has contacted me to say a gentleman recognised the photo as a landmark called The Stage. She says it was situated near Bodiam, people from Hurst Green and other local villages would visit it as you could see France from it.
The gentleman has offered to make all the information he has available and they have said they will post it to me. Should anyone like to see this I will take them up on their offer. Otherwise, I shall decline it.
Jo.
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Yes please Jo, nothing else on the net really. I'll post it on the Kent & Sx Forum I've pm'd you my email if you want to send it direct Cheers Pete
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Hello Petmas,
They want to post the material to me and I have sent you a PM about this. I can scan and send to you, or post it all if you prefer.
Jo.
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Hi Jo,pm'd you Cheers Pete