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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tracey NZ on Saturday 06 February 16 05:06 GMT (UK)
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William HALL (born Winchester) and Ann Annie BARNETT (born Westminster) had their first child Charles in 1900 (born Buckinghamshire).
In the 1911 census, William noted that he and Annie had been married for 12 years. They were now living in Croydon, Surrey.
I cannot find, however, their marriage through BMD UK. Ann was 5 years older than William (although recorded as only 3 years older). I wonder if she might have married at a young age and not divorced therefore William and Annie might have lived in name only.
If there are any suggestions, I would be grateful.
Tracey NZ
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The pertinent question on the 1911 census asks how many COMPLETE years of marriage?
So a marriage ought to be found c1898-1899? ;D
Therefore, this looks a possibility:
June qtr 1899
Newport Pagnell Registration District vol 3a, page 1490
Hall, William Josiah
+ and on the same page +
Jerman, Annie
Looking at their children in a 1911 index:
Charles William's birth was registered in Chesham, Buckinghamshire in 1901.
Cyril Leslie and Maisie Beatrice were registered in Sevenoaks in 1907.
Leonard's birth was registered in Stoke Hammond, Buckinghamshire in 1903.
It looks like William was a boarder living in Lewisham in 1901?
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Hi
How do you know that she was 5 years older?
What documented evidence do you have?
? Is this what you are basing it on . . . . .
Birth 1870 QMar Westminster, St. M. 1a 415 Ann Mary E Barnett
Ray
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Compiled from free indexes of 1911 census:
Annie Hall, Wife, 39 b Westminster
William Hall, Head, 36 b Winchester, Huntingdonshire
Charles Hall, Son, 10 b Chesham, Bucks
Leonard Hall, Son, 8, b Stoke Hammond, Bucks
Maisie Hall, Daughter, 4 b Brasted, Kent
Cyril Hall, Son, 4 b Brasted, Kent
I presume the "Hants" has been mistranscribed as "Hunts"? ::)
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For info the family in 1901 Living in Mortlake Surrey - No birth places are listed on the census
William Hall 26 Gardner
Anne M E Hall 29
Charles W Hall 9 months
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+++++ Amended this post +++++
"There is a tree" maintaining that the family including Charles Cyril Leonard Maisie
has a mother from this marriage . . . . .
Marriage 1898 QDec Sevenoaks 2a 1414 William Hall / Emily Annie Smith
Added
Birth of Son Charles Hall(1901)
1901 Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England
Birth of Son Leonald Cecil Hall(1903)
1903 Stoke Hammond, Buckinghamshire, England
Birth of Son Cyril Leslie Hall(19071969)
1907 Brasted, Kent, England
Birth of Daughter Maisie Beatrice Hall(19071992)
30th March 1907 Basted, Kent, England
Death of Son Cyril Leslie Hall(19071969)
20th September 1969 Auckland, New Zealand
Death of Daughter Maisie Beatrice Hall(19071992)
1992 Hove , Sussex, England
William's parents
Richard Hall 18341906
Bessie Hyde 18461914
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Some of that seems to stack up
1881 13 The Weirs Winchester
13 150 1232 page34
Richard Hall 45 Gardener
Bessie Hall 34
Elizabeth J. Hall 12
Ellen M. Hall 10
Edward H. Hall 8
William Hall 6
Louisa E. Hall 4
John Hall 1
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Therefore, this looks a possibility:
June qtr 1899
Newport Pagnell Registration District vol 3a, page 1490
Hall, William Josiah
+ and on the same page +
Jerman, Annie
William Josiah Hall b 1875 Loughton, Bucks married Lilian Kate Puryer
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? Is this what you are basing it on . . . . .
Birth 1870 QMar Westminster, St. M. 1a 415 Ann Mary E Barnett
Ray
This birth does look interesting, especially if Barnett is her known maiden name from a child's birth cert (?). This Ann seems hard to trace in her early censuses.
Possible death as Ann Mary E Hall aged 70, Mar qtr 1941 Croydon. (Edited to correct typo in date).
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Therefore, this looks a possibility:
June qtr 1899
Newport Pagnell Registration District vol 3a, page 1490
Hall, William Josiah
+ and on the same page +
Jerman, Annie
William Josiah Hall b 1875 Loughton, Bucks married Lilian Kate Puryer
That looks a much better bet! ;D
And I did say a possibility :D
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1841 death? s/be 1941?
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1841 death? s/be 1941?
Yes! Will correct. Thanks Ray.
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Thank you Ray, Kay and all
The census information provided is correct, including Annie's death date.
As I cannot find a Barnett/Hall marriage 1899+/- 10 years, the BMD marriage provided for William J Hall and Annie 'Jerman' is as you say, a possibility. All I can think is that she married previously and remarried under a different name. I see that the district they potentially married is about an hour's drive away, in today's world, from Charles birthplace. I would have to purchase the marriage certificate.
I have discounted the marriage in Seven Oaks provided in the public tree, which I have seen before but has had some inconsistencies and no verification attached.
Thanks for your time, much appreciated.
Tracey
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Hi Tracey
You may have to buy a certificate or two just to rule them out.
Just think of it that you have to buy an extra round just to keep a friend (in this case a relative) :-{
When something changes, please post the new/amended info?
Ray
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the BMD marriage provided for William J Hall and Annie 'Jerman' is as you say, a possibility
There was no such marriage, as Kay99 has already pointed out. They just happened to be on the same register page, marrying other people.
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Hi Tracey
You have a thread from 2014 discussing the same topic.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=697743.msg5410929#msg5410929
I assume that you have made the connection to Barnett from that thread?
Please comment?
You point to 1891 census? Why do you agree with it?
Please give us the benefit of the specific reference, so we too can take a look?
We can possibly help you more if you help us
Rootschatters can get very animated when they find out that they have ( attempted to ) duplicate research work already done ( whether info accepted as correct, or not ) .
Cheers!
Ray
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Thanks Shaun J, I hadn't picked that up in entirety.
Ray, Just read your post; looking back at the thread referred to, I agreed with the possibility of the information, linking up as it did with census timelines and locations. I subsequently bought a 'round' as your say and verified that Annie was indeed 'Barnett' through my grandfather's birth cert. I am therefore now back to looking for a marriage for 'William Hall and Annie Barnett' as stated in my opening post, nothing further than that.
I am at a total loss as there are no Hall/Barnett marriages on BMD UK from 1899 +/- 10 years. I hadn't thought of looking for a marriage in Buckinghamshire for a 'Hall' only around that time, with possible alternate bride names so that was helpful. I will buy another round to discount the Sevenoaks marriage, or who knows, possibly verify. Other than that it may be they lived in name only.
Cheers
Tracey NZ