RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: ThomasW59 on Thursday 04 February 16 21:34 GMT (UK)
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Hello.
My great grandfather´s father´s uncle with the name Johan (John) Andersson settled in Middlesbrough England sometimes between 1850-1900. In my greatgrandfather´s book, he mention his father´s uncle visiting their home once in Kungshamn Sweden. If his name is mention in England, it most be in connection with Gothenburg, where he studied sea navigation. He was member of the methodist church in Middlesbrough and sailed as far as to Black Sea with for example oil. I can imagine it was a cargo tall ship, not sure. His elderly brother Anders was born 1826, he could been born around 1830-35.
If someone know anything about him, or where else to look, it would be highly appreciated. I have already contact Methodist church in Middlesbrough, and they dont know anything so far.
Thanks, Thomas W.
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The John (Johan) Andersson you are looking for could be a John Anderson who is in the 1861 Census of England. He is living in the village of Norton in County Durham which is just North West of Middlesborough. He is described as John Anderson, occupation Seaman , born in Sweden, age 31 (so his date of birth would be 1830.)
He is married to a woman named Susanna Atkinson and they appear to be living with her parents William and Susanna Atkinson . John and Susanna have a 1 year old child named William. Susanna Atkinson married John Anderson in 1858.
In the 1871 Census Susanna is married to John Mason, son William Anderson is with his mother and stepfather. Susanna married John Mason in 1865 so it is likely that John Anderson died sometime between 1861 and 1865. There is a death record for a John Anderson in Stockton in 1862, Stockton is just west of Middlesborough and I believe is the registration area for the village of Norton.
This may not be your John but at least worth eliminating or investigating further.
Hope this is a start for you
Phil
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John Anderson married Susanna Atkinson registered Stockton in 1858. If you get his marriage your will find who is father was and his occupation, most likely Anders something. If you can tie his father's name with some of the names you have with rough birthdates the Swedish records are a dream come true to family historians-like yearly census with birth dates, and where, marriages, etc.
I doubt there were many Lutheran churches in England as that was the state church of Sweden so most likely Susanna's was.
BTW Susanna's second marriage to John Mason was at West Hartlepool Christ Church and she was a widow, age 25, father William Atkinson a tanner by trade.
Janis
grandfather from Sweden
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Thank you so much, Phil and Janis, for your response.
The likeness is almost spot on; date of birth, name, occupation, and living place. I so wanted it to be true.
The town in the west-coast of sweden from where he was the church burned down with all the books of records, which make it hopeless to find any roots on this side of my family-tree.
If my great grandfather write in his book about a visit from a ageing sea captain Johan Andersson, the time would be 1889-1890 and that would rule out this John Anderson settled in Stockton. And you, Phil, find the death records to be of 1862, which unfortunately halted my hopes.
I truly appriciate your reply. Thomas
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Hi Thomas
Have you found anything of your great grandfather and family in Kungshamn, dates, marriage etc?
I presume you have checked out the Swedish Church Books. There are some records online. I can take a look if you want.
Regards
Ian
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Do someone over there in England have the oppertunity to look into this person mention in Captains registers of Lloyd´s of London:
ANDERSON, John b.Gothenburg 1842 C87239 London 1870 (1871 vol.16)
vol.1 1871-1873; vol.16 1876
The Lloyd's "Captains Registers" are now held by London Metropolitan Archives.
jamcat95, I think that the only records of him would be in England, since the local church from where it supposed he was born, burned down with all information 1600-1900.
I can find roots back to Scandinavian Jarls 1200 century, through other relative, but a recent existing uncle is like 'gone with the wind'.
Thanks and take care, Thomas
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Hi
Yes, true, but Arkivdigital have a number of records to go through from Kungshamn, including censuses, births and deaths. Worth a try. I have a subscription.
Which parish did he come from?
Ian
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Hello Ian.
I have looked through a partly restored census called "KUHAM", meaning Kungshamn. Only Johan´s brother Anders Andersson´s date of death and his wife and children is mention. Anders Andersson, which is my ff ff f, whereabouts is rather unknown. No one amongst my living relatives know anything except for what is in my grandfather´s book. I think Johan, Anders and their parents are from parish closer to Norwegian border.
What I try to search for is the mentioning of Anders wife, Karolina Johannesdotter b.1831, coming further north of Bohuslän - Hamburgsund.
Ian, you said you have subscription. Do you have family connections to west coast Sweden?
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Do you have family connections to west coast Sweden?
I have no connections from the west coast apart from the fact that I know the area pretty well. We go there every year for a weekend on holiday.
Can you give me some dates and parishes for Anders and family please. I need to have a starting point.
Ian
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Is this your Anders Andersson...... born 14 July 1827 and died 19 April 1871 and married to Carolina Johansdotter born 14 April 1830?
Ian
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Johan (John) Andersson´s brother Anders Andersson b.1826-06-20 (parish, which place of birth will be the same as John; ?), d.1871-04-19 in Kungshamn (Gravarne). Marriage; Karolina Johannesdotter b.1831-10-14 Hamburgsund, Bohuslän. Their child Johan Alfred Andersson (patronymikon the same for him), which is my great grandfathers father, b.1858-04-03 - d.1896 Bäckewik, Kungshamn. They had another child, Paulinus, who only lived for 4 years.
To add; Gravarne, Tången and Bäckewik merge to a town which after 1910 got the name Kungshamn.
I am quite sure Johan was much younger than Anders. He could have been born around 1830. Anders was a carpenter and fisherman, and Johan took off in early years to learn sea navigation...and the meeting with his nephew and family was briefly appr. 1895.
This Sea captain John had also with him "English marmelades and nicely decorated English canned food. Was also active in the English Methodist church".
I am planning a book about what I found about my relatives, so John Andersson would be a nice add.
Thomas.
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The birth number I got from my greatgrandfathers book. Whereas the date of death I got the same as yours, from the census. I question the birth dates I have given of Anders and Karolina (Carolina) since I do not sit with the census information.
Thanks
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Your dates are not correct according to the Books.
Ian
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They had 6 children including Johan Alfrid b. 3 April 1858. No Paulinus that I can see.
Ian
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What book are you refering to? That information seems correct.
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I have the whole family now. The parish Anders arrived from to Kungshamn was Askum. Anders may have been born there but the books were also destroyed in a fire.
Ian
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What book are you refering to? That information seems correct.
I have access to the Swedish Church Books and many other databases.
Ian
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Askum, hm. Right infront my eyes and I didnt give it a chance. I waiting for information from another source concerning sea navigation students from Gothenburg.
Thank you very much Ian
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What info would you like and what do you already have. I have traced Johan Alfred to 1905 and can go further if required.
Ian
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Thats ok, thanks. I have all info from Johan Alfred and up to date.
I now checked and saw that a update has been posted for further info on Kungshamn, meaning I had rather weak data since before.
I try to find Anders Andersson´s origin - paternity and maternity. From there I might trace Johan Andersson easier.
Thanks for your kindness.
Thomas
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According to Anders Andersson's Inventory/Will his brother Olof Andersson from Askum is to be the trustee for the underage children.
So it looks like the Anderssons came from Askum.
Ian
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You might not have all these.
Anders Andersson's children:
Olof - b. 18 Sept 1860 - d. 20 Jan 1861
Johan Alfrid - b. 3 Apr 1858
Josephina Emilia - b. 5 Nov 1861
Claes - b. 29 Oct - d. 24 Jan 1869
Claes Albert - b. 3 Sept 1870 - d.20 Jan 1871
Albertina - b. 1 July 1864
Julia Christina - b. 20 July 1867 - d. 12 Oct 1867
Ian
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You might not have these:
Anders Andersson married 30 Jan 1857 in Kungshamn.
Carolina Johansdotter died 8 March 1876 in Kungshamn. She died of oedema.
Ian
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Even though most of the records from Askum were destroyed there are some remaining and some transcribed.
All I could find was that Anders was living with Olof Mattias and family in Östra Rörvik. They both owned the farm up until 1856 when Anders left for Kungshamn. I cannot find any names of parents unfortunately or even John for that matter.
I have 2 transcribed records (Husförhörslängder) of Olof and Anders in the same dwelling Dalarne. One from 1850 and the other 1856 in Askum.
Ian
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Absolutely fantastic, Ian.
Thank you very much. No, I didnt have all the childrens name. Great.
Olof Mattias and Rörvik is something to investigate further.
I now looking if there are a connection between Johan August Andersson born 1844 in Askum (no info. about death), and Johan August Anderson b.1844 (Sweden), mention in London Lloyd Captain register.
Thomas
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Hi
Hmmm. I did see a Johan August Andersson in the Askum transcribed books somewhere........
This is the record:
Utrykes flyttade - 1869 04 06 - Seaman Johan August Andersson born 1844 05 15 - till England - far Anders Olsson.
This date could be the time when the minister wrote him in the "obefintliga boken" and not necessarily the date he left Sweden.
Ian
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Here are 3 records from Askum for the same family:
1830-1840 Prästbacka
Anders Olsson - 1790
Olof - 1821
Anders - 1826
Inga - 1824
bror Olof Olsson - 1805
bror Kristian Olsson - 1810
1840-1850 Långemyr
Anders Olsson - 1790 02 15
Maria Jakobsdotter - 1806 07 15
Johan August - 1844 05 15
Edvard - 1847 06 06
Anna Kristina - 1839 02 12
Albertina - 1849 03 08
1850-1860 Långemyr
Anders Olsson - 1790 02 15
Maria Jakobsdotter - 1806 07 15
Johan August - 1844 05 15
Edvard - 1847 06 06
Anna Kristina - 1839 02 12
Emmanuel - 1854
Albertina - 1849 03 08
Ian
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A notation beside Anders Olsson at the side of the 1840-1850 Långemyr:
fr. Fintorp via Gravarne n:o 12 Nov 1856.
Fintorp is in Tossene and the date coincides with the date that Anders arrived in Kungshamn which was 6 Nov 1856.
Ian
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You mention a connection with Middlesbrough?
There is a John A Andersson born Sweden living in Middlesbrough in the 1891 and 1901 census. He is a Master Mariner, birth date circa 1845.
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This could be our man JenB. I just got caught up with John Andersson from the 1861 Census thinking this is still our man.
Good find.
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The same Johan August Andersson born 15 May 1844 has 4 records on Ancestry...
http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=2271
Masters and Mates certificates listing all the ships he has been on etc. living in Middlesborough and Sunderland.
Ian
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1891 Census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7RSF-NPZ
1901 Census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSSC-FYT
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The address on the 1901 Census coincides with the address on one of the Master Certificates: 97 Russel Street, Middlesborough.
Ian
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And low and behold I have found his naturalization record and it states that he was from Askum. His parents are Anders Olson and Maja Jakobson.
All his children are listed so this is your man.
Ian
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All his children are listed so this is your man.
That's great :D
With John in 1901 are his mother-in-law and brother-in-law, surname Winton, so this looks like his marriage:
John Auguste Anderson and Margaret Winton, 1st q 1878, Sunderland 10a, 666
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My, I did enjoy looking for him Thomas. I did find Johan August yesterday in the Swedish books but his date of birth threw me a little. Good job I copied the records for further reference.
I think your book will be a thicker one now.
Regards
mvh Ian
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Here's Margaret with her family, the Wintons in 1881
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKX5-VNKP
But please note her son Arthur aged one month is entered as born in Scotland, however the original clearly shows him born in Middlesbrough
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Hi.
My hair stand on end (or how one say in english?). Great job.
I hope I have the permission to add this forum chat as a important note in my book?
It will be a quite thick book of roots back to for example king Haakon IV of Norway and roots to a mad boatsman fighting the Russians ships on the sea outside Finland, etc.
Thank you so very much Ian and JenB (and others)!!!!
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Cheers Thomas and good luck. (och varsågod!)
Ian
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Johan's probate is on Ancestry too. He died 3 May 1919.
Ian
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Not finished yet!
I just found John in the 1881 census, he is 1st Mate aboard the SS Ayresome of Middlesbrough, at (if I read it correctly) Latitude 48 degrees 50m North, Longitude 5 - 10 West ;D.
He is entered as aged 36, birthplace Gothenburg.
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We might need the gps for that one.
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We might need the gps for that one.
It's enumerated in Middlesbrough Registration District. Is that because the ship is registered in Middlesbrough?
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I have now found all three Inventories/Wills for Johan Alfrid, Anders and Olof Mattias.
Ian
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Johan August's mother Maria Jakobsdotter died 12 Nov 1856.
Ian
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Hi Thomas
I wonder if you have you seen my 2 personal messages?
Ian
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Anders Olsson's first wife Ingeborg Nilsdotter died in 1830. So this is why Johan August was born later in 1844.
The Olsson family owned Prästbacka from around 1750 so you will be able to follow the family all the way back to 1750.
Quite a lot of info to be had even when the books were destroyed.
Ian
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Yes, I noticed that Anders and Johan was half- brothers. Anders Olsson´s next wife would have been too young for Anders and Olof.
I joined in on an account for the FamilySearch.org to see if I could take a closer look at the Anderson fam. as well as the Winton fam.
I hope you recieved my e-mail adr.
Thomas