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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Jill in Oz on Sunday 31 January 16 03:37 GMT (UK)
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Herbert Rowland Hamilton and his wife Alice Phyllis just disappear from Hastings, Sussex,England in the early 1920s. They are mentioned in Newspapers there in 1921. Herbert R was born in south
London in 1892 and his wife in 1894. Can't find them in immigration records.
I have found a Medal Card for an H.R.Hamilton, at TNA UK. It mentions an Application for WW1
medals sent from Dept of Marine, Digby Island,Prince Rupert, British Columbia, Canada in 1924.
I cannot find Herbert or his wife in any Canadian records I have tried but I am not experienced in
searching in Canada. Does anyone have any ideas? Jill in Sydney
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Hi,
Can't see a marriage of Herbert R Hamilton to Alice Phyllis but could it be Herbert R Hamilton to Alice P Burleigh - Hastings - September 1915 - 2b 97 ???
Sandra
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UK Incoming Passenger List - H R Hamilton (Captain) - 1892 - aged 27 years - St Johns New Brunswick to Liverpool arriving 24 January 1919 - Scandanavian. Military party - Supernumerary Staff, Canadian Army Pay Corp Argyll House London
Canadian Passenger List shows a H R Hamilton (Capt) C A P C - Liverpool to Halifax Nova Scotia - 5 February 1919 on the Baltic. Think it says "not perm Cand or Cond staff" (paymaster ???
Sandra
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Thanks for the replies to my post. Yes Herbert R was married to Alice Phyllis Burleigh who is
also an enigma. No father on her marriage certificate - born Bermondsey London on the 1911
census but no birth or baptism found despite much searching.
You have cleared up the possible move to Canada for which I am most grateful. Herbert was
not a Mariner as he was a china and glass repairer master - but it was worth asking.
Back to the drawing board.
Most helpful,
Jill in Oz
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Those passenger lists show a Captain in the Canadian Army Pay Corp not a Mariner. Not convinced that was your Herbert though.
Sandra
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:) :) :) ;)
Thanks,Sandra!!!
Just knew you would find something. I did suggest to Jill that she try over here.
Jill's one of my erm..."older" gene buddies. ;D
(ducks for cover)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
i.e. a good friend from the London/rootsweb/list
Maureen
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Hi Sandra
I agree with you - he was not Captain material! Thanks again.
Where did he go? Not anything likely for him and Alice in the UK deaths, nor the
1939 census. He had a brother in the US and two uncles but I can't find him there,
an uncle in Chile of all places and his brother (my grandfather) in Sydney. They were
a migrating family as it were.
As for that crack from Maureen - you will keep!!?? Age catches up with all of us but
I keep running anyway.
Cheers
Jill
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Could you get an exact date of birth for your Herbert ??? It might help tracing him in the USA, in case he also followed the brothers ???
Sandra
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Which brother was in the USA - have you found an obituary for him ??? Just wondered if it might mention Herbert ???
Sandra
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Hello Sandra
Herbert Rowland Hamilton was born on the 3rd Sept, 1892 in Walworth, Surrey (south London) the
third of seven sons to Arthur Ainslie Hamilton and Ada Jane Rogers. Arthur was a compositor (printer).
The family lived around the area until just after 1900 when they returned to Hove Sussex where
Arthur had been born and reared. Another child a girl was born in 1904 and Ada then died followed
by the child. The boys were scattered and 4 ended up with a Maskell family where the householder
was a China and Glass repairer (master). Herbert Rowland Hamilton was apprenticed to him and
became a Master. He was still in the area of Hastings Sussex in 1921 with his wife Alice Phyllis Burleigh. He had lost a business due to ill health and went to prison for passing a cheque when he
had no funds but was busking on Brighton Beach to raise them. He then disappears along with Alice.
His brother Lesley Arthur was sent to Canada as a child migrant, fought in WW1 and then brought
back a wife and migrated to the USA where he ended up in Salem, Oregon. He had two uncles in
the US. William Herbert Wentworth Hamilton was a Mining Engineer and registered inventor, who
lived in Parker, Baker, Oregon, California, and Sulpher Springs, Arizona. He had three wives and
at least five children. I have the details of these three people, but I do not have any cemetery
details. I have found about three possible death notices for William H. W. and sent for one but
it was not correct. I can't find the families (other than Lesley) on immigrations material.
Any information gratefully received. Jill in Oz
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This appears to be William Herbert Wentworth Hamilton ....................
FIND A GRAVE
William H Hamilton - 3 April 1863 - 1934
Burial Mount Hope Cemetery Baker City Baker County Oregon.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=138340650&ref=acom
William Herbert Wentworth Hamilton, Born April 1863 in 22 Western Street, Brighton, Sussex, passed away Feb 11 1934 in Baker, Oregon.
http://www.tribalpages.com/family-tree/robertshistory
If you require additional information on people buried in Mount Hope, please contact the person listed at the bottom of this link
http://www.oregongenealogy.com/baker/mount_hope_cemetery.htm
Sandra
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Thanks so much Sandra. No progress on Herbert Rowland Hamilton but to find the grave of
William Herbert Wentworth Hamilton in Mt Hope Cemetery, Baker City is a great bonus as I
have been chasing his death notice for years. I will now try and apply for his Death Certificate
in the hope of further information on his families. I have applied for a photo of his gravestone.
The Roberts/Hamilton link is known to me. Paul Roberts and I have worked together on the
Hamilton family and he has my detailed history.
I have joined the Find a Grave site, and hopefully will have more wins.
Regards
Jill in Oz
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No progress, just nibbling ;)
BMD recorded 3 births records in 1892 for Herbert Hamilton (March 1892 Chorlton) , Herbert Otho Hamilton (Eastbourne September 1892 - passed away 9 November 1915) ) and Hamilton Rowland Hamilton (December 1892)
There is a possible death record which might fit Herbert - not sure if you have looked at this one before ???
Herbert Hamilton born 1892 and passed away December 1974 - Fulham London - Vol12 Page 0756
Sandra
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Hi Thanks Sandra,
Yes - I too do a lot of nibbling. I know that the Chorlton Civil Record for Herbert Rowland was the
correct one and have the Cert. for that and his vaccination record which gave me his birth date.
I have the Fulham 1974 index record but didn't call it up as I have done with so many others
in a wasted exercise, as I can't find him anywhere between 1921 and 1974 - and what happened
to Alice!?! I have tried divorce records etc too. All odd. Probably should get the death record
and be done with it. Herbert Otho Hamilton Eastborne does not seem to be one of mine.
The thing that has saved me with this family is the constant use of second and often third forenames which are often quite distinctive. The William Herbert Wentworth Hamilton whose
burial record you found is a classic example and apart from Alfred Seymour there is another
brother who went to Chile who was Walter Frederick Exuperius Hamilton!?! but I suppose that
was typical of an educated Schoolmaster and his Schoolmistress wife in the 1860s. William
Hamilton the father of this brood married Louisa Charlotte Wentworth, a Schoolmistress,
but thats another story.
Appreciate your knowledge and your help.
Thanks
Jill in Oz
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Hi Sandra
I cannot get the Death to come up that you quote for Herbert Hamilton, d 1972 in Fulham,
on Freebmd. Could you please clarify.
Many thanks
Jill in Oz
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Hi Sandra
I cannot get the Death to come up that you quote for Herbert Hamilton, d 1972 in Fulham,
on Freebmd. Could you please clarify.
Many thanks
Jill in Oz
Sandra's post said 1974 in Fulham.
Jacquie
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Sorry Jacquie
Thats what I thought I had typed. Can't get him up on Free BMD at any time in the 1970s.
Jill
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That's strange. It's listed at Family Search and Ancestry. Here's a link to the Family Search entry: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCB-6JHN (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCB-6JHN)
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie
I agree it is odd - normally freebmd is very accurate. I didn't think of going to Family Search.
I intend to apply for the cert. although I don't think I will learn much. Oh for an Aussie death
cert. which is so full of useful information.
Thanks Again
Jill
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Searched 1939 Register, which opened to findmypast subscribers today, and found no trace of Herbert.
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Thanks so much Manawakian,
I have also gone through it with a fine tooth comb and can't find anyone who fits
either party, but a second pair of eyes is very helpful.
Looks like I will have to try other obscure countries. He had an uncle in Chile!?
with a business. Perhaps he went to join him.
Regards
Jill in Oz
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Jill in Oz, your throw away comment about Alice Phyllis being an enigma- what do you know or not know about her please.
John
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Jill in Oz, your throw away comment about Alice Phyllis being an enigma- what do you know or not know about her please.
John
John, I couldn't see a 1894 birth listed for Alice, Alice Phylllis or Phyllis Burleigh during my searches ??? Wondered if she had been married previously perhaps but sure Jill would have said if that info was on the marriage cert.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra, looking at "ALICE PHYLLIS" births 1894/5 brings up 2. One I can trace the other appears to disappear. Alice Phyllis Virgo mar q 1894 Brighton 2b 239. If Jill's marriage cert has no details how is it established she was born c 1894 - Bermondsey on 1911 census- how do we know it's her?, unless iv'e missed a posting somewhere.
John
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Alice Phyllis Virgo birth Jan 1894 died July 1894.
Sandra
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Alice Phyllis Timms - 27 August 1894 - Father William Arthur Timms and Mother Ellen Phoebe Channell - Alice married John Weaver Ellis - 18 December 1918 - ST Clements Chruch Oxford.
Appears on a UK Return Passenger List - Santos, Brazil to Southampton 29 May 1922 on the Corinthic. Think that one can be discounted as well.
Sandra
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Sandra, sorry I missed the death of Alice Virgo. I too followed Timms and dismissed her. I'll have a rethink!!!
John
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Hello Sandra and Johnhood,
Thanks for the suggestions. I will append the 1911 census, which shows the details of
Alice P's place of birth. I will also append the marriage cert. on another post as it is
seeminly too big to add.
Regards
Jill in Oz
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Hi Sandra
Herewith the Marriage Cert of Herbert Rowland Hamilton and Alice Burleigh.
Doesn't help much.
Jill in Oz
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Thanks for confirmation of marriage details Jill. Unfortunately you need to remove the 1911 census, it is not allowed on Rootschat due to copyright. If you don't remove it, a moderator will do it for you.
Regards
Sandra
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Sorry about the census, I hope I have removed it. It is for Hove, Sussex and shows a 16 year old
Alice Burleigh, a Nursemaid and domestic worker, born London Bermondsey, working for Frank
Derbyshire, a Boarding House Keeper. No more to go on sadly.
Jill in Oz
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Sorry about the census, I hope I have removed it. It is for Hove, Sussex and shows a 16 year old
Alice Burleigh, a Nursemaid and domestic worker, born London Bermondsey, working for Frank
Derbyshire, a Boarding House Keeper. No more to go on sadly.
I noticed the housemaid listed above Alice has her birth place listed as "Fife Cupar Angus" which makes me wonder how accurate the information is for the staff.
Jacquie
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Thanks Jacquie, The 1911 census was filled in by the householder, who in this instance had been
born in London. I think he should have Bermondsey right, but probably wouldn't have a clue
about Scotland. Alice Phyllis is a real problem. No birth, no death and nothing in the 1939
census either. I have sent for a Death Cert. for a Herbert born 1892 but am not holding my
breath hoping for answers on what happened to him. No Alice deaths seem to match in England
and Wales.
Regards, Jill on Oz
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As discussed I did send for the only Herbert Hamilton Civil Death Record in England which
fitted the right age for my Herbert, and was in an area (Fulham) where he may well have
lived but once again it was not my Herbert. Yet another dead end. I do think he migrated
somewhere with his wife Alice Phyllis but so far no real links. Thanks everyone for your
suggestions and contributions.
Jill in Oz
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Just had a look through this post.
Have you had a look at this 1939 entry.ref FindMyPast.
Alice Hamilton married, dob 19 Nov 1896,at 4 Henry Street Littlehampton Sussex.Domestic.
The image shows 1896 birth but the transcription shows 1891.
She is with another married lady and two entrys blacked out.No menfolk listed.
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Thanks so much Brionne, I have been on and looked at this 1939 census entry but
there is nothing for me to get my teeth into. Alice Phyllis was 16 on the 1911 census making her birth
c1895, and she was 21 at her marriage in 1915 making her birth c1894 - so a birth date of
either 1891 or 1896 is a bit out. If this was her where was Herbert Rowland Hamilton? He doesn't
come up -and she lists herself as married. Still very confusing as this one's occupation is unpaid
domestic duties - and the two blacked out names in Number 4 don't help much and you would wonder who is supporting her. I have been through all the Herbert Hamilton entries in the 1939 census again but none of these fit at all. He is not in the death records either. I hope that one day all will be revealed but I am not holding my breath!!?! Appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Jill in Oz
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Hello
I have just joined Rootschat and as I was looking for the Hamilton side I came across your query.
I am in NZ but my ex brother inlaw was a Hamilton from Oakham, and believe he is related to Arthur Ainsley Hamilton, I have just started to check this side of the family so wonder if there is a connection.
Cheers Carol
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Hi Carol,
I am amazed that you have popped up with information after all this time. My grandfather William
Ewart Hamilton was the first child and son of Arthur Ainslie Hamilton. The children had a rough
life and after their mother died and they moved back to Brighton and Hove, William migrated to
Australia as a young man about 1910 and apparently didn't have any contact with his siblings after this. He married twice here in Sydney and had two sons one of whom was my father.
I have scads of information on the Hamiltons but was trying to tie up the "lost" brothers with Herbert R who seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth. I would be very pleased to receive any information you may have. Jill in Sydney