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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:17 GMT (UK)

Title: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:17 GMT (UK)
Welcome to another Scavenger Hunt, it's been a while since the last one, but I'm sure everyone has their thinking caps ready and raring to go.

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara

                             ***********************************

I'm searching for the marriage of John James Earwaker to Elizabeth Pain around 1870. John was born in Southwark, Surrey (London) and Elizabeth in Bermondsey, Surrey (London).

John born 23 March 1838
Elizabeth born 1844 - I'd also like to find her birth and death and parents too!

First child born 1870 in Southwark. They lived in Southwark all their lives. John died 1898. Can't find a death for Elizabeth but she was alive in 1911 census which doesn't give the length of the marriage.

I have no idea if she was married previously.

I know her maiden name is Pain because it says so on her daughter's birth certificate.
John was known as John /James/ John James

I have found Earwaker spelled Eawaker/Earwalker/Earwaken/Sandaker. It is a really difficult name to follow. I know it is also pronounced Erriker.

I have searched under Pain/Payne

I have looked for marriages in Southwark and Middlesex and London under every variation I can think of.

If anyone out there can find it, I will be so grateful!
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:43 GMT (UK)
Simple suggestion is if the marriage can't be found then it never existed in the first place!

Am going to have a look of course, love a challenge  :D
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:45 GMT (UK)
An Elizabeth Sarah Pain died Southwark aged 55 in June 1902. This would suggest that if it's her, there may be no marriage. She was bord Dec 1846 in Brentford.

Regards


Malky
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:49 GMT (UK)
If she is definitely alive in 1911 then she didn't die in 1902  :-\
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:49 GMT (UK)
Simple suggestion is if the marriage can't be found then it never existed in the first place!

Dawn suggested here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=711010.msg5547466#msg5547466 that John might not have been free to marry
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Tuesday 26 January 16 10:51 GMT (UK)
"If she is definitely alive in 1911 then she didn't die in 1902"

Right enough, I read it as 1901. Interestingly, I am having problems with finding John's death in 1898

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 26 January 16 11:01 GMT (UK)
John James Earwaker age 59 death Mar 1898 St Saviour
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 26 January 16 11:04 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth is 67 in 1911 so maybe this death?

Jun 1918 Southwark
Elizabeth Earwaker age 75
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Happy Time Traveller on Tuesday 26 January 16 11:44 GMT (UK)
Hi thanks for looking into this for me.  I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. I might not answer immediately but am checking the thread regularly. I'll try and find ref for Johns death

Thanks
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Happy Time Traveller on Tuesday 26 January 16 11:47 GMT (UK)
Simple suggestion is if the marriage can't be found then it never existed in the first place!

Dawn suggested here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=711010.msg5547466#msg5547466 that John might not have been free to marry

Yes I looked into a possible earlier marriage but couldn't find anything.  Open to this suggestion though if anyone can find an earlier marriage
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: josey on Tuesday 26 January 16 12:07 GMT (UK)
There are baptisms of 2 Elizabeth Pains in Kennington - next to Bermondsey  ???
1842 parents Samuel & Elizabeth https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV3X-RMN
1845 James & Elizabeth https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV3F-D8B
sibs Joseph & George 1851 HO107 Piece/Folio 1567 / 403 p 50.
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Happy Time Traveller on Tuesday 26 January 16 12:30 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth is 67 in 1911 so maybe this death?

Jun 1918 Southwark
Elizabeth Earwaker age 75

Thank you , this looks like her death. Now to find her birth! The various census records record her birth as Bermondsey or Westminster or St George the Martyr (Southwark)
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Happy Time Traveller on Tuesday 26 January 16 12:53 GMT (UK)
another thought is that Elizabeth was not free to marry. I don't know if she was married before. On the birth certificate of her children it just asks for her maiden name, I guess she wouldn't have to declare if she'd been married previously, especially if she was not married to her current partner.
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 27 February 16 09:12 GMT (UK)
There is a baptism for an Elizabeth Paine, april 18th 1841 at St Mary, Bermondsey.  Parents William and Hannah, address Loxton's Court, profession Salesman
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 27 February 16 09:19 GMT (UK)
Possible siblings to the above Elizabeth Paine, all baptised at St Marys, Bermondsey:

Sarah Paine  26 Feb 1837  abode West Street, Labourer
Mary Paine  16 Jun 1839  abode Newington, Green Grocer
William Paine  11 Jun 1843  abode Laxons Court, Salesman
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 27 February 16 09:35 GMT (UK)
Cos, well, I've got nothing else pressing to do (housework can wait a bit longer!!), I might have a look to see what happens to those Paines.

In 1841, they are at Laxon Court, Long Lane, Bermondsey
William Paine  35  Salesmen  Born in county
Hannah Paine  35  Born in county
Sarah Paine  4  Born in county
Mary Paine  2  Born in county
Elizabeth Paine  3 months  Born in county
HO107; Piece: 1047; Folio: 50; Page: 16
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Happy Time Traveller on Saturday 27 February 16 09:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks spider monkey, housework is overrated anyway!

I'll look them up next week. Shame I can't find that marriage so we can def confirm her father.

Thanks
Kirsten
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 26 February 17 15:03 GMT (UK)
Cos, well, I've got nothing else pressing to do (housework can wait a bit longer!!), I might have a look to see what happens to those Paines.

In 1841, they are at Laxon Court, Long Lane, Bermondsey
William Paine  35  Salesmen  Born in county
Hannah Paine  35  Born in county
Sarah Paine  4  Born in county
Mary Paine  2  Born in county
Elizabeth Paine  3 months  Born in county
HO107; Piece: 1047; Folio: 50; Page: 16

There are deaths in Bermondsey district for William Q4 1832 and Hannah Q2 1844 which would be a reasonable match for their ages on the 1841 census.
There is also an Elizabeth Pain living with George and Mary Ann Charlton in 1851. She is right age and born Bermondsey. Relationship: orphan. George was born Northumberland and Mary Ann born Kent, so probably not related to Elizabeth.

Piece: 1561 Folio: 251 Page Number: 4

I did find a possible marriage for sister Sarah to James Stewart, but it seems to be eluding me now.
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: iolaus on Sunday 26 February 17 16:01 GMT (UK)
There's a John EARWAKER marrying an Elizabeth PRICE in Bethnal Green in Mar 1859


In Jun 1856 theres a potential marriage between
William Parry PRICE and Elizabeth Dartheney PAYN in E London

There are a few William Price deaths around the London area between the two marriages
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 26 February 17 16:08 GMT (UK)
There's a John EARWAKER marrying an Elizabeth PRICE in Bethnal Green in Mar 1859


In Jun 1856 theres a potential marriage between
William Parry PRICE and Elizabeth Dartheney PAYN in E London

There are a few William Price deaths around the London area between the two marriages

Isn't that James Earwaker.?
James married Hannah Rose and Elizabeth Price married William Hart
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: iolaus on Sunday 26 February 17 16:10 GMT (UK)
buggar read James as John
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: iolaus on Sunday 26 February 17 16:13 GMT (UK)
Just a thought - using the spelling of Payn searched for Elizabeth Payn - there is a marriage in 1866 in Hackney where they seem to be missing one of the men

Henry Bell
James Carr
Sarah Monks
Elizabeth Payn
Eleanor Storer
Title: Re: Happy Time Traveller Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 26 February 17 16:49 GMT (UK)
Just a thought - using the spelling of Payn searched for Elizabeth Payn - there is a marriage in 1866 in Hackney where they seem to be missing one of the men

Henry Bell
James Carr
Sarah Monks
Elizabeth Payn
Eleanor Storer

There's a marriage for an Elizabeth Payn to John Laythorn on 20 May 1866
Looking for John Laythorn on GRO, he's on his own 1b page 615. I think Elizabeth Payn may have wrong GRO refeence