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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Joseph_K on Monday 25 January 16 16:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Joseph_K on Monday 25 January 16 16:29 GMT (UK)
Hello,

I am looking for basic biographical information on some early male Australian lawn tennis players, who were all active before World War One. I'm just looking for a first name or first names, date and place of birth (and date and place of death, where known).

Here are the players I'm interested in:

S.P. England
--

R.J. Goodman
--

A.L. North
--

J.A. Raws
--

R.H. Reid
--

A.F.R. Scott
--

H.M. Turner
--

R.C. Whitelaw
--

Any help would be appreciated.

J.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 18:45 GMT (UK)
Are you familiar with, or checked, Australian newspapers on line - Trove.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

I searched for "S P England" which threw up a huge number of hits - mainly post WWI when he was a coach.But I hadn't used date filters.

But trying to find his given names from this is proving somewhat elusive (tho' I do know he had a nephew Bob England!!)
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 18:50 GMT (UK)
J A Raws - there's a death notice in the Shepparton Advertiser, 25 Sep 1916. Again, no given names.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 19:25 GMT (UK)
R J Goodman

http://www.tennisforum.com/25414826-post741.html

Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 19:37 GMT (UK)
On the Trove site the marriage of Ralph Goodman to Minnie Atkins can be found in the Cumberland Argus & Fruitgrowers Advocate 25 March 1905. (What a great name for the local rag).

His occupation "dentist" leads to other newspapers reports about a legal case involving a "Ralph Joseph Goodman, Dentist".
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 19:41 GMT (UK)
J A Raws

https://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2014/02/04/good-fearless-soldiers/
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 25 January 16 19:44 GMT (UK)
What are you doing..... writing a book?? Actually this site is about finding peoples family tree, their ancestors. Not research for someones book!!

I don't mean to be pickie, but if you decide to write a Biography of tennis there are tennis associations like the Australian Lawn Tennis Ass. They have information on registered players throughout the years. The professional Tennis Players Ass may also have a potted history going back before WW1.

Happy Australia Day

Neil ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 25 January 16 19:46 GMT (UK)
This is only one of many similar posts under at least 2 different user names  ;)
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 19:57 GMT (UK)
R H Reid

See Trove site, newspaper is "Referee 2 Oct 1918"
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 25 January 16 20:05 GMT (UK)
Think his full name might be Reginal Harper Reid
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 25 January 16 20:05 GMT (UK)
See aghadowey's summary here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=568745.


33 threads under user-name newmark401
2 threads under lucy2
and now a thread under Joseph_K

Persistent, isn't he?! ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 25 January 16 22:51 GMT (UK)
A bit much.... Rootschat Research society for the Lawn Tennis association... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Happy OZ Day Everyone ;D ;D ;D
Off for the mandatory luncheon with family at the beach.  ;)

Lucky Phillip didn't land in July. How cold is it in the water in July in Oz Land. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Neil
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Monday 25 January 16 22:53 GMT (UK)
I am fairly sure that in July, there's chance of snow on the Wimbledon tennis courts, at least at the courts at Wimbledon NSW, out near Bathurst.   :)  so I think the water would be icy.  :) 

Cheers, JM
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: DavidG02 on Monday 25 January 16 23:48 GMT (UK)
See aghadowey's summary here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=568745.


33 threads under user-name newmark401
2 threads under lucy2
and now a thread under Joseph_K

Persistent, isn't he?! ;D
Surprised he hasn't tried Nettie_01 yet
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 04:59 GMT (UK)
Re:
S.P. England
R.J. Goodman
A.L. North
J.A. Raws
R.H. Reid
A.F.R. Scott
H.M. Turner
R.C. Whitelaw

I realise the list does not ask for details of champions, but I am doubtful if the above list is actually a list of early male Australian tennis players (pre 1914) with enduring history to share.....

I have just checked with the historic results for State and National Tennis Championships across Australia as per the 1993 Tennis Australia Handbook.

Australian Champions Men's Singles commence 1905.  None of those names are listed.
Australian Champions Men's Doubles commence 1905.  None of those names are listed.
May I mention (for Neil Todd to enjoy  :) )  that this was the era of NE Brookes, HM Rice, AF Wilding, and in 1915 HM Rice and CV Todd were victorious in the Men's Doubles.    :)  :)  :) (Horace Rice & Co, sporting equipment suppliers comes to mind)

There was no play in the Australian Championships 1916-1918. 

NSW Champions Men's Singles commence 1885.   
No play 1905, 1916-1918.  None of those names listed.

Qld Champions Men's Singles commence 1889
No play 1916-1918.  None of those names listed

South Australia Champions Men's Singles commence 1890
no play 1916-1919.  None of those names listed

Tasmania Champions Men's Singles commence 1930

Victoria Men's Champions Singles commence 1880
no play 1915-1918 None of those names listed.

West Australian Champions Men's Singles commence 1895
no play 1915-1918, None of those names listed

I also checked the French, Wimbledon, and USA, none of those names listed as Men's Singles champions. 

I checked the lists of Australian Davis Cup Players.  None of those names.

I also checked the 1896, 1900, 1904, 1908 (both indoor and outdoor) 1912, Olympics. None of those names are listed. 

Perhaps the list of names is for local club players, or perhaps from early rounds in championship tournaments, or perhaps it is  not even a list of tennis players  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ...

Could it be table tennis perhaps ???

Cheers,  JM 
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 06:01 GMT (UK)
England and Goodman were club players in Sydney NSW Australia.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/115242973
Evening News 21 May 1910.

Our OP may like to research the rest of those names himself.  Here's the link to the free to search digitised newspapers.  http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y   May I suggest our OP uses key words "lawn tennis" and the surnames of the players  .

Goodman was a Dental Surgeon in Sydney, who played tennis, Ralph Joseph GOODMAN.    Here is cutting regarding his father, a CPS, a JP, a Mason, an Alderman, and a man who also played tennis.  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/159792922 Sydney Mail 29 July 1931.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Neil Todd on Tuesday 26 January 16 07:37 GMT (UK)
JosephK, aka newmark40, hasn't been back on to check the state of play, although it may be a dead rubber, it would be nice to know that he/she, has all the information to do some great research on a possible list of unknown tennis aces. 6.0.- 6.0, - 6.0...

Neil
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Tuesday 26 January 16 08:08 GMT (UK)
2 threads under lucy2

How did Lu a regular on the NZ board get dubbed as an aka for MARK RYAN  ???
Lucy2 - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=49708

All I can see is Lu giving information on this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=622270.0
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 08:18 GMT (UK)
I have no idea Merlin, how anyone would confuse Lucy2 from the NZ board for either of those two/one person/s seeking tennis bio materials.  Perhaps the RChatter mentioning Lucy2 was confuddled by the OPs various threads across many boards.

See aghadowey's summary here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=568745.


33 threads under user-name newmark401
2 threads under lucy2
and now a thread under Joseph_K

Persistent, isn't he?! ;D


http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/163150447   Here's Roy  :)


 

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Joseph_K on Tuesday 26 January 16 17:35 GMT (UK)
Hello,

Many thanks to hanes teleu and majm for the positive replies.

I had a good look in ancestry.com for a Roy C. Whitelaw, but couldn't find him.

A.L. North is listed in the "Schola Grammatica Sydneiensis" published in March 1915, but no first names are given.

I searched for S.P. England again, but still without any success.

J.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 26 January 16 18:17 GMT (UK)
Agreed - "S.P" proving very elusive, especially considering his coaching career post WWI.

Trust you took advantage of Trove as initially advised. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:31 GMT (UK)
Strange - no comment on the remarks made re: you are Newmark401 posting under a different name.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:37 GMT (UK)
Extract from reply 22 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=731019.msg5759138#msg5759138

Quote
Here are just 4 examples of "hobby posters"

A prolific poster who had an interest in participants of a well known sport and was a subscriber to it's website where he was thanked and applauded for the info he posted.  No mention that the info came from RC. 

See

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?members/newmark401.60520/

http://www.tennisforum.com/59-blast-past/696890-four-great-early-german-female-lawn-tennis-players.html
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:48 GMT (UK)
Yes, and no explanation as to the connection to the names.   

The OP has indicated they have access to Ancestry.com  :) and on one of the other threads I had suggested offline ways to seek out early Australian tennis information.

If the OPs are tennis coaches, then they should consider using their own association's resources to contact the equivalent associations in each of the Australian states and territories.

Perhaps the OP needs to consider explaining the purpose of the requests, they are certainly different from the usual family history requests on the Australia Board.   

Cheers,  JM   

Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:50 GMT (UK)
WoW 

stunned.



Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:56 GMT (UK)
Perhaps Joseph has many Tennis Playing rellies....or he has lost his way and ended up here ;D
Carol
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 January 16 23:39 GMT (UK)
May I mention that there's a stickied thread on this Board.  It is "How To ....."

Re Roy ..... I have previously suggested Trove.   I am amazed that the OP makes no mention of success with searching there.   It is NOT a subscription site.   It is part of the National Library of Australia.   Trove includes digitised newspapers, but it is more than that. 

Anyways, here's a cutting or two about Roy.  It contains biographical information (his age, his place of birth, his Dad's name etc).   http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/95242715 Port Pirie Recorder and North Western Mail 30 November 1910     Here's another, likely giving the denomination of the family .....  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/95339572 21 December 1907

I found it simply by using the keywords "roy whitelaw" at the following live link. 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/  .


Here's a live link re How To Request a Look Up http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368728.0  And there's the sentence "Firstly be sure to check the Australia Resources Board. where you will find so many wonderful links listed to help you in your journey"

So, at the South Australia Resources Board is the following live link  https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

And there you find a birth indexed in 1890 for Royston Calder WHITELAW.

I leave it to the OPs to use their own research techniques to determine what further information the seek about the other names listed.

I see that I had responded on the thread about hobby posters.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=731019.50
And I had commented:

May I mention one concern.   I think if after we have contributed to a thread, we later become concerned about a particular RChatter's intentions perhaps being less than honorable, then I think we should simply let the moderator know of these concerns. 

Of course, it would be very easy for any person who has been 'named and shamed' so to write, to simply obtain a new email address and come back in disguise.



Cheers,  JM   





 
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 January 16 00:13 GMT (UK)
Source: Who’s Who in Australia  1944

Royston Calder WHITELAW,  Inspector, Qld Div Union Bank of Aust Ltd. : son of R Calder Whitelaw, Port Pirie, S.A.; b Aug 8, 1890, Port Pirie; ed. Port Pirie West and Tech Schs,; held positions Branch Mgr., Union Bank of Aust Ltd., all States;  memb S.A. Interstate tennis team 1910-14; m. June 1 1915, Winifred, d Edward Hall, Norwood S.A. 1s., 1d., recreations tennis golf bowls, club Queensland and Brisbane address c/- The Union Bank of Aust Ltd, Bris. Qld.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 27 January 16 00:30 GMT (UK)
Royston Calder WHITELAW

Who is so easy to trace... birth/marriage/death/burial/children+  ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 January 16 00:41 GMT (UK)
Who is so easy to trace... birth/marriage/death/burial/children+  ;D

armchair effort with fingers doing the walking  :D 



Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 27 January 16 00:49 GMT (UK)
See aghadowey's summary here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=568745.

33 threads under user-name newmark401
2 threads under lucy2
and now a thread under Joseph_K

Persistent, isn't he?! ;D

Oh really ???  ;D     Can you provide direct links to the " 2 threads under lucy2 ", please KGarrad ??

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 27 January 16 01:22 GMT (UK)
A.L. North is listed in the "Schola Grammatica Sydneiensis" published in March 1915, but no first names are given.

Another who is easy to find... birth/marriage/death/burial/children+   ;)
Also photos in the State Archives   ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 27 January 16 02:19 GMT (UK)
armchair effort with fingers doing the walking  :D

Of course JM  ;)
You don't think I'd be anywhere else in 40° heat  ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 January 16 02:23 GMT (UK)
40°   ::)

any breeze ? 

overcast here.
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 27 January 16 02:29 GMT (UK)
40°   ::)
any breeze ?

Light E/NE   :(
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 January 16 02:37 GMT (UK)
Well, if any on that list were still young enough to toss a ball into the air and then to strike it and put it into court, they would need to be keen observers of the weather.

It is my understanding that THE DON was actually on his way to White City to play representative tennis for  a NSW Country team in the 'Country Week' carnival in around 1921 when the train was brought to a standstill at one of the Metro stations in THE SHIRE, and the guards found THE DON and handed him a telegram sent to advise he had been selected to represent Australia.  I understand he was selected to play in a team in the top division of the tennis tournament, and he had played rep tennis for NSW previously and that he paused before getting off the train.   What if they had not figured out which train to stop  ;D
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 January 16 05:31 GMT (UK)
Joseph,

have you considered that some of these people on your list may not have been born in any of the colonies, but may have been born in Britain?

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 January 16 08:12 GMT (UK)
Oh really ???  ;D     Can you provide direct links to the " 2 threads under lucy2 ", please KGarrad ??

   ~  Lu

Profuse apologies! :-[

I did a RC search on all threads with "early lawn tennis players", and it appeared that your name came up - and that's what I reported.

I did it in a hurry, as I thought it was important for people to know what this charlatan had been up to.

I was caught out, when I did a lot of research for him! >:(
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 27 January 16 09:52 GMT (UK)
Joseph,
Did you eventually spot death of S P England? - The Courier Mail, 14 Dec 1951. Eventually led to Samuel Percival England - Brisbane Telegraph 31 May 1952
Title: Re: Some early male Australian lawn tennis players (pre-1914)
Post by: sarah on Wednesday 27 January 16 11:20 GMT (UK)
This topic is locked for the time being