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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: eyshame on Monday 25 January 16 15:49 GMT (UK)
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For some 12 years now I have searched for my great grandfather and I have always come up against a thick brick wall.
My problem is I only have his marriage certificate and I know nothing else about him apart from his name which is Thomas Kavanagh - there again the name itself is a very common one.
I have tried all avenues that I could think of and asked for help here too on Rootsweb. I followed all advice and still no luck.
Should I give up or is it possible to find him with only a marriage cert? What would you do?
E.
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I know nothing else about him apart from his name which is Thomas Kavanagh -
I can understand your frustration :)
Here are links to your other threads on this topic :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702836.msg5457721#msg5457721
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701913.msg5449108#msg5449108
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734407.msg5797899#msg5797899
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721959.msg5659067#msg5659067
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Thanks JenB. I get lost in this forum so would be happy to have them merged or deleted as I can never find them anyway and most are outdated now.
Thanks.
E.
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Not sure that Family History findings can become outdated!
Havent read through all the previous work done, but just on what is in this post the obvious steps (that presumably have been taken) are : has he been found in a census after marriage? What name and occupation does he give for father on marriage cert? When/where is marriage? Who does he marry? etc etc.
In answer to your question on this thread - yes it is possible to "find" someone when all you start with is a marriage cert, because you move on to other things as listed.
But I guess in this case there is a lot more to it, presumably all usual channels have reached a full stop for whatever reason.
So I m not sure that starting a new thread is going to help. All we will can do, at least to start with to get some more info, is to go over old ground surely?
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Thanks JenB. I get lost in this forum so would be happy to have them merged or deleted as I can never find them anyway
Stan and I explained how to find them here :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734407.msg5798317#msg5798317
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When I said outdated I meant that I have followed all the suggestions and still hit a brick wall.
He has never been found on a census after 1881. He married in 1894 in Lanchester, Co Durham. His father is listed as a labourer.
All of the above have been explored so I have no clue as to where to go to from here. It is a long and complicated story as the previous posts attest to so I won't repeat here.
I suggested deleting the other posts or merging them to save space, that was all.
Thanks for your post and if you can help further it would be appreciated.
E.
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Did you ever purchase the birth certificate mentioned in earlier thread?
Found the birth of a Thomas Kavanagh registered in Stockton Oct/Dec 1864 10a 7052. Can anyone find Parish Baptismal record for him please as really need to know his mother's maiden name.
Any help so appreciated. Census say he was born Spennymoor and he was Catholic but don't know which church he would have been baptised in.
Very many thanks in advance for any help given.
E.
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Did you ever purchase the birth certificate mentioned in earlier thread?
Found the birth of a Thomas Kavanagh registered in Stockton Oct/Dec 1864 10a 7052. Can anyone find Parish Baptismal record for him please as really need to know his mother's maiden name.
Any help so appreciated. Census say he was born Spennymoor and he was Catholic but don't know which church he would have been baptised in.
Very many thanks in advance for any help given.
E.
I posed that question on an earlier thread and this was the reply
JenB, yes I phoned Stockton registras' and gave them the information I had from his marriage certificate which is only his father's name and occupation. I added the information on the 1871 and 1881 census too and the young man rang me back a few hours later and said there was no Cavanagh/Kavanagh or any other spelling of that name bon in Ferryhill in 1864.
I recall getting information about a Thomas Avanagh, the C having missed off for some reason but I cannot find that link again now and yes I recall telling them about that too but again they said no. It has been a while so maybe I could phone again. The even told me to phone Stockport where all the records are kept they told me and I did and I got the same answer - am I just unlucky and get the wrong people on the phone who either don't care or cannot be bothered to look things up properly? I have no idea but I did pursue the info. Will try to find Tillypeg's message again.
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No I didn't as I was advised to look for baptismal records and save money as it was suggested to gain further evidence before buying.
I have another marriage certificate where Thomas lists his age as 27 in 1894 which now suggests he was born in 1867 not 1864 as previously suggested. The first cert was in poor condition and I think I have mis-read the 7 for a 4.
I am trying to work on the date of 1867 as opposed to 1864 now. These things happen I know but even so nothing has still be found to find Thomas.
Perhaps I could be advised as to how to change the date of 1864 to 1867 in previous posts or to amend this somehow. All the other information I gave is still correct though.
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Jen B, many thanks for your help, it is appreciated.
Do I need to start a new thread to amend the date of 1864 to 1867? How is it best to change this date?
Thanks
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I'm sure everyone has tales of chance discoveries but I'd just like to say that I'd found nothing on a brother and sister of my husband's ggg grandfather after their teens (1851/61) but in the last few days have found both, through to their deaths, and all through pure chance (a marriage at the church where 2 of the 4 siblings were baptised suddenly jumped out at me, though they were last known some miles away; the image was online and was spot on).
So you can find new leads, especially as more and more information is coming online regularly.
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Jen B, many thanks for your help, it is appreciated.
Do I need to start a new thread to amend the date of 1864 to 1867? How is it best to change this date?
Thanks
Please DO NOT start another thread on this topic- there's already enough confusion and duplication. You can always add a post to an existing thread but in this case it might be better to ask a moderator to have a look and perhaps lock all but ONE topic (posting a link to the open thread).
It seems to me that you haven't exhausted all possible leads or followed advise given until you order the 1864 birth certificate from GRO to confirm or rule out that lead.
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Do I need to start a new thread
No, please don't start another one :)
Please don't get too fixated up on a 1867 d.o.b. The censuses were consistent in showing him aged 7 in 1871 and 17 in 1881, i.e. born 1863/4.
You know that the father's name was Thomas and, according to the 1871 and 1881 censuses the mother's name was Catherine. Have you asked Stockton R.O. to check that 1864 birth for those christian names and NOTHING ELSE? Adding in occupations and places of birth which have come from later documents is a slightly dodgy move - they might not be the same on the birth cert.
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I have contacted the support team and asked for my threads to be either locked or preferably deleted all together.
yes I contacted the Stockton reg office and the Durham office and the Stockport office all with out success.
I am not in a financial position to keep buying certificates so I was advised to look for baptismal records but no luck there either which is why I tried a baptismal search for Thomas' brother John between 1870 and 1872 as he was consistently born in Ferry Hill as opposed to Thomas who was born in both Wrexham and Spennymoor.
Information from 1871 census RG10/4953 and the 1881 census RG11/4925 plus Thomas' marriage cert of 1894 in Lanchester Co Durham to Margaret Mc Coy. This is all my information. I have followed up all leads to date. I accept this is a frustrating case as there is no one more frustrated than myself after some 12 years. Maybe I should give up.
I hope the support team do delete all threads as I would prefer that now.
Very many thanks to everyone who has tried to help, it was all appreciated. I am not upset but prefer to eliminate the confusion and deletion seems the best way.
E.
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It's really not fair on everyone who has tried to help to get all the threads deleted :-\
Checking baptismal records sometimes only works if you do find the correct record but not all are online. For the surviving records there may be gaps, missing or illegible pages or the clergyman may simply have neglected to record the one particular baptism you need.
I certainly wasn't suggesting that you purchase lots of random certificates- just that one due to the location and date. If the local registry offices cannot locate it then the GRO reference should make it easier to order through them.
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There is a JOHN KAVANAGH birth registered in Stockton.... Dec quarter 1872. If his father is Thomas and mother is Catherine then you at least have her maiden name. (Durham, vol 10a, p 65)
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There is a JOHN KAVANAGH birth registered in Stockton.... Dec quarter 1872. If his father is Thomas and mother is Catherine then you at least have her maiden name. (Durham, vol 10a, p 65)
This has already come up on another thread.
As John is on the 1871 census aged 1 an 1872 birth isn't feasible
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Apologies I didn't read all the old posts :-[
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Very many thanks indeed. The father's name was John, mother Catherine and sons Thomas and John.
I am not trying to be unfair to anyone - really I am not, I am simply trying to eliminate all the confusion that seems to have arisen from my posts - that's all.
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You could order the THOMAS CAVANAGH birth registered in Stockton in Dec quarter 1864 from the GRO specifying you only want it if the parents details match. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
If you apply online, say 'no' to the question about the reference but enter 1864 and Stockton and the parents names and they'll search 1863 to 1865 OR ring them and ask them if they'll look for that Dec quarter 1864 birth (I think it's called a reference search), giving them the quarter and parents names.
It's worth remembering tat if you apply online asking them to look for Cavanagh, they'll only send it to you if they find Cavanagh - they won't look for Kavanagh or other variations. Personally, I'd ring them.
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I suggested that in reply 12. :)
You know that the father's name was Thomas and, according to the 1871 and 1881 censuses the mother's name was Catherine. Have you asked Stockton R.O. to check that 1864 birth for those christian names and NOTHING ELSE? Adding in occupations and places of birth which have come from later documents is a slightly dodgy move - they might not be the same on the birth cert.
Please see eyshames reply #13 :)
yes I contacted the Stockton reg office and the Durham office and the Stockport office all with out success.
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I don't know the area and assumed they referred to the local records offices not the GRO.
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This is likely to have been suggested on previous threads, but if you order online via the GRO website and specify only the father's name, if this does not match, your money will be refunded, so you will not be out of pocket.
If that happens, you can try reordering with for example, mother's name only, and so on, using a process of elimination.
As already pointed out, they won't issue the certificate if only one thing does not fit in with what you have specified, eg, spellings slightly different. That is why the less information given is generally better. You need to use the exact spellings and details as given in the GRO index even if you believe them to be wrong.
Good luck.
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I don't know the area and assumed they referred to the local records offices not the GRO.
No, I'm sure eyshame was referring to Stockton, and Durham Register Offices and by Stockport meant the GRO :)
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Ordering a birth certificate from the GRO without using a reference number but stating his parents names is the best way to go forward at this stage. It does take longer, about 15 working days compared to 5, but if the GRO find any possible entries and the information doesn't match you will get a refund.
However, as the birth was beforew 1874, there is a chance it wasn't registered.
Catholic baptisms are difficult to find as very few of them are online and most registers remain with the church.
There's a list of churches here, you could work through them to try and find which ones were open in the 1860's
http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/churches07/churchtowns.php
As to deleting the topics, Rootschat policy is not to do that unless there are serious breaches of copyright or requests for information on living people.
It's amazing how many people find old topics on here through internet search engines and make contact with distant relatives.
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There's a list of churches here, you could work through them to try and find which ones were open in the 1860's
http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/churches07/churchtowns.php
Hi Dawn, on this subject please see the posts by Stan and myself here :) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702836.msg5804553#msg5804553
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just googled Spennymoor area for RC churches.
the parish of St Charles was established c1858 at Tudhoe.
address; St. Charles Rd., Spennymoor DL16 6JY
apologies if this has been mentioned previously but it may help a baptism search. We had a similar problem with an RC ancestor who was baptised but apparently not registered.
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Very many thanks taffie01. I cannot find him registered anywhere so a baptismal record is what I am interested in.
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My personal feeling is that from his marriage in 1894 you only know that when he married he was 27 (bc.1866/67), that he was a Coal Miner, son of a John who was a Labourer and as he can't be found in 1891, I suspect he was probably born in Ireland.
Because there a couple of 'possibilities' living in Durham I feel you are trying to make the pieces fit but both of these people are younger than someone born 1866/67.
Although I can't prove a word of it, it's possible he joined the army and took part/was killed in the Boer War thus making Margaret a widow and enabling her to remarry. Unfortunately, there are umpteen people with his name who were born around 1866/67 in Ireland and joined the army.
I do appreciate your frustration but with just the marriage certificate to go by, and his absence in 1891, you really do not know where he was born.
Annette
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"you only know that when he married he was 27 (bc.1866/67), that he was a Coal Miner, son of a John who was a Labourer"
My great grandmother - from Scotland - married in England. Her marriage certificate has the wrong age and father on the cert. He is actually her grandfather- she was illegitimate.
If TK did come from Ireland he could make up anything if he so wished......
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I do appreciate your frustration but
have you read the numerous previous threads on this topic ? Advice has been given over and over again that the OP has not followed. How can you help in a situation like that ?
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;) because we are all lovely on here :D
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I suspect he was probably born in Ireland.
Hmmmm :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449757.msg3118649#msg3118649
My great grand father was Thomas Kavanagh sone of John and Catherine nee Carton, born Annamoe 1865 with brother Lawrence born 1866 and later a brother John but no idea where he was born as yet.
John and Catherine came to England but don't know when and Thomas married in Co Durham in 1894 but, after over 10 years, i have never been able to find his death anywhere.
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I do appreciate your frustration but
have you read the numerous previous threads on this topic ? Advice has been given over and over again that the OP has not followed. How can you help in a situation like that ?
Indeed I have , davidft. I had to in an effort to find out all that was 'known' about said Thomas and what had been said before. Not a good idea to keep starting new threads about the same thing.
Have just read even earlier threads in 2009/2010 - feel I'm going round in circles. So, back then,
I suspect he was probably born in Ireland.
Hmmmm :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449757.msg3118649#msg3118649
My great grand father was Thomas Kavanagh sone of John and Catherine nee Carton, born Annamoe 1865 with brother Lawrence born 1866 and later a brother John but no idea where he was born as yet.
John and Catherine came to England but don't know when and Thomas married in Co Durham in 1894 but, after over 10 years, i have never been able to find his death anywhere.
1. Where has the information re. both his parents names come from?
2. Where has the information of his birth of 1865 in Annamoe, Wicklow come from? (OP is now looking at Thomas' born Durham?? - says marriage certificate gives John as a labourer in 1894 but states in other threads he was a Coal Miner and I'm getting more confused by the minute)?
There is no trace of Thomas on 1891 Census so have only the given marriage details to go by - we need the exact details given at time of his marriage - is this just from the GRO marriage certificate or is it the actual RC marriage entry which gives more detail I believe.
Back to basics I feel - starting with what is 'known' (or stated). I'd love to be able to help but conflicting information is making it so difficult.
Annette
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Thanks Annette7. In truth all I do have evidence of is his marriage certificate, a real one. He was married to Margaret Mc Coy in April 1894 at Lanchester Co Durham. Father John listed as a labourer. TK is said to be aged 27 and could read and write while she could not hence and X for signature. This is in reality my only true evidence the rest I admit is supposition on my part but I had to follow something as I was on my own at the time and had not found this forum.
From there, I searched the census records and came up with the 1871 census RG10/4953 and then the 1881 census RG11/4925 as they seemed a good fit. I followed John K, sibling, to Gateshead where he married. If indeed this is TK's sibling as I now in total doubt myself and questioning everything again myself.
TK's wife remarried in 1902 to a Patrick McIntyre so TK was either dead or it was an illegal marriage, both possible but I cannot find a death cert for TK. The 1911 census has Patrick and Margaret married for 20 years which is untrue. Marriage cert reads she is a widow but found no death to fit.
I bought a birth cert from Ireland taking a chance hence the Carlton name which I hoped I could follow and accept or reject.
Happy to go back to basics as I have plodded alone and may have missed something. I too am now confused and very frustrated and wanting to give up all together as a bad job.
Many thanks Annette7.
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Can we take it back a step further?
You say all you have is the marriage cert. So what led you to get this marriage cert? What is your interest in Thomas? Presumably you didn't just stick a pin in the marriage index and say "I'll order that one!", so presumably you know something about Thomas's family.
(I haven't read the previous threads to see if this has already been addressed, I do confess)
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He is my great grandfather. My great grandmother, Margaret McCoy, remarried as said to Patrick McIntyre and before my dad died he told me he wished he had found his real grandfather TK, hence the interest.
I have followed Margaret's family and found her father born in Armagh Ireland but no luck with TK so I wonder why. Wish I didn't like puzzles so much.
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I agree with Annette, back to basics is a good idea.
Eyesham, you have stated your grandmother was called Catherine Bridget Kavanagh. There appears to be only one registered in Gateshead District September Q 1896.
Do you have her birth certificate?
Is her father's name the same on her birth certificate and her marriage certificate?
What evidence led you get the marriage certificate of Thomas and Margaret?
Have you found Catherine in the 1901 Census?
Many people have started down the wrong path because they have not nailed down all the available evidence. You have to purchase certificates or examine original records to make sure you have not been led astray by incorrect information. Since you don't know exactly which churches the family may have used purchasing certificates is the most efficient way to proceed.
You answered one of these questions while I was typing this. Your Dad told you his dad was call TK.
That leads me to suspect you are relying on oral evidence.
Venelow.
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In order not to confuse this thread any further (if that is possible) I've posted new information on the Kavanaghs of Brockagh, Co. Wicklow on that thread-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449757.msg5864294#msg5864294
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Thanks venelow, That is my grandmother and yes I have her birth cert and yes Thomas is listed as father however, on her marriage cert John Thomas is listed as father. To sort this out I fond a JT who died in 1900 aged 1 year. I then found his burial place and followed that to the address he was buried from, it was a known family address and Marg was living there at the time so I am happy this was her son and my grandmother's brother.
I bought JTK's birth cert and Thomas K is listed as father with mother being the same. I can only guess that as she was only 6 years old when her mother remarried she did not know of her brother so mixed the names up in later life, but I am happy with the evidence that John Thomas K is son of TK and brother to CBK as mother's name and address are the same.
Since I knew Margaret's maiden name from the birth cert of my grandmother I then found the marriage cert for TK and M.McCoy.
I found CBK on the 1911 census in which Marg and new hubby Patrick state they have been married 20 years when they have not. I got the marriage cert of Marg and Pat and she says she is a widow. They married in 1902.
My dad told me his granddad was Tk, not his dad. While it was originally oral info I followed through by buying and double and triple checking the evidence I have so far.
Maybe I mislead myself with the 1871 and 1881 census as TK's father on them is John and a labourer as stated on TK's marriage cert.
I am told after investigation that the Irish naming system is that the first son is to be named after the father's father and so Thomas would have been named after his grandfather. TK's daughter I am told, Catherine Bridget, would have been named after TK's mother. The second son would have been named after his own father, in this case John.
Finally Marg was married three times and I have her death cert and she was buried from my grandmother's CBK's address.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks aghadowey, I am sticking with this thread only from now on but I have replied to the Kavanagh Carton thread and thanked the person who posted the information for me.
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I'm the person who posted the Kavanagh details on the Wicklow thread and linked the 2 threads ::)
I am told after investigation that the Irish naming system is that the first son is to be named after the father's father and so Thomas would have been named after his grandfather. TK's daughter I am told, Catherine Bridget, would have been named after TK's mother. The second son would have been named after his own father, in this case John.
I'm not sure who 'told' you this but I think you are taking bits of information so that they fit what you want to find.
A typical naming pattern was 1st son of paternal grandfather, 2nd- maternal grandfather, 3rd- father and 1st daughter- maternal grandmother, 2nd- paternal grandmother, 3rd- mother. However, not all families stuck to this pattern and even if they did there are many circumstances which can throw off the results.
Assuming for just a moment that the Kavanaghs did so (and there is absolutely NO evidence that they did) then if this statement and so Thomas would have been named after his grandfather is correct then Thomas would need to have been the eldest son.
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aghadowey, I cannot dispute what you say here.
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Hi Eyesham
It appears there is only one Catherine Kavanagh born around the time of 1895/6 and she is the one Registered in Sep Quarter 1896 at Gateshead.
You did not say if you had found her in 1901 but I note did you said you could not find Thomas after 1881.
There is a girl who could be Catherine in the census at Gateshead. Her father is stated to be John born at Ferry Hill. He is a coal hewer. Her mother is Margaret born in Durham. Her name is Kate Cavanagh and she is stated to be six and born at Gateshead.
It seems to me she is the only child in the 1901 census that could be Catherine Bridget.
(A challenge for other Roots Chatters to find another candidate)
However there are other children in the household that should be investigated. Thomas and Hannah born in 1886 and 1888 whose children are they? John is stated to be 31. (Although the age is a bit obscured) That matches him up with John and Catherine's son (and Thomas' brother) but makes him rather young to be the father of a child born in 1886.
There is a gap between Thomas and Hannah and the next child Margaret born about 1893. (She is aged 8 but stated to be three in the index.) Also born before the Cavanagh McCoy marriage in 1894.
And then comes Kate aged 6 and John aged 7 months (Sept Q 1900). Who is John's father?
All the children in this household are stated to have been born in Gateshead but this may not be the actual case.
Also is the Margaret in 1901 the same one who married Patrick? In 1911 Margaret is 37 born about 1874 in 1901 she was 34 born 1867. I am struck by the fact that in 1901 the Margaret living with John is Margaret J. whereas the one living with Patrick is Margaret E. Could there be two Margaret McCoys?
Venelow
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In view of the fact this thread has been complicated enough already I don't really want to throw any more into the mix BUT the 1901 'Kate' with John and Margt. J. Cavanagh as reported by venelow is not Catherine Bridget and felt I had to mention that.
It's somewhat bizarre as I've looked at the census' before and after 1901, studied subsequent BMD's and the scenario is this: in Dec.1882 Durham an Anthony Joyce married a Margaret Jane Grace (in 1891 family listed as Joice) - Mary b.1883 Thornley (birth Sept.1883 Easington) and the remaining 5 in Gateshead - Thomas Sept.1885, Hannah Sept.1887, Anthony Mar.1890, Margaret June 1893 and Catherine Sept.1894 (the latter being the 1901 'Kate'). Anthony Joyce senior died Newcastle upon Tyne in 1895 and by 1901 Margaret Jane and her children are with John Cavanagh (who may or may not be the one mentioned earlier in the thread) and they are all listed as Cavanagh (cannot find Anthony born 1890 but he appears later). There is no marriage between Margaret Jane and John although the 1 year old in 1901 is clearly a child of John Cavanagh. The following census lists the whole family as 'Joyce', including John himself who signed as such (see what I mean about bizarre). His child with Margaret Jane is shown as son, but 3 of her earlier children shown as 'Boarders'.
You can no doubt see why I didn't want to elaborate on this but needed to prove as best I can why 'Kate' Cavanagh wasn't Catherine Bridget Kavanagh, never believing it would turn into such a saga. At the moment we are back to square one in that Margaret E (for Elizabeth) and Catherine Bridget are still missing on 1901 census although I am thinking they should probably be in Newcastle upon Tyne as that is where son John Thomas died in 1900 and where Margaret married Patrick McIntyre in 1902.
So, eysham, after you've read the last 2 posts put them out of your mind as we are only concentrating on Thomas now in an effort to unravel that particular tangle (we sure don't need another one).
Annette
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Annette7, all the information you have given above is correct. I found it while following John. Anthony like John was in the mining business and I was told when one miner died and left a wife with children another miner often married her for various reasons but John's only child was the last one.
I never found an entry for Margaret, Catherine or Thomas on the 1901 census.
When the baby died Margaret was living in Gateshead and the baby was buried from there and lies in a Gateshead grave but I never found a trace of them again until the 1911 census when Marg is married to Patrick and says she has been married 20 years, which puzzled me as to why they needed to lie.
Thanks Venelow for your post too. I think Annette's post explains it as it is what I found too.
I agree with Annette about concentrating on only Thomas, as it is he who I wish so much to find. I have hoped for years now that I could find him and stand at his grave before I take residence in my own.
I only followed John in the hopes of finding Thomas but that has proven not to be the case so far. I then decided to try to find John's baptismal record to find mother's maiden name again in the hopes of finding Thomas and or his grandparents etc.
Very many thanks Annette for your help, it is appreciated.
E.
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If your Patrick Mcintyre on the 1911 census is correct- he also seems to have been married before.
1891 census Durham Escomb
Patrick Mcintyre Married 28 coal miner b Woodside Durham
Susan wife 26
Ann dau 5
Patrick son 2
Patrick father widower 76 Conby Longh Ireland
Marriage March 1885 Auckland 10a/262 Patrick McIntyre and Susannah Tyson.
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Larkspur, we are on the same wavelength - I was just looking at that :D
the 1911 census when Marg is married to Patrick and says she has been married 20 years, which puzzled me as to why they needed to lie.
I wouldn't assume they lied. It is possible Patrick misunderstood the form. :-\ He has certainly done so in respect of the number of children 'from the present marriage' which is also incorrect - he has entered '6', but two of them are from his previous marriage and one from Margaret's previous mariage.
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Jen have you found Patrick on the 1901?The only one coming up for me is
Class: RG13; Piece: 4756; Folio: 91; Page: 16
His age is listed as 34 but looking at the image it clearly says 54. So don't think this is the correct one.Plus the parents birthplaces are both Ireland.
There is also this
Marriages Jun 1903 Gateshead 10a 1604
Davis William
McIntyre Susannah
McMahon Alexander
Sharp Martha
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Jen have you found Patrick on the 1901?
No ::) I can only see his sons Patrick and Owen who are with their uncle William in Benwell.
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I looked at Patrick McIntyre last night - he had 4 children with Susan/Susannah: Ann b. Mar.1886, Margaret b.Sept.1887 (you missed her off the 1891 census larkspur), Patrick b.Mar.1888 and an Owen (I think Owen Henry b.Dec.1894). Think his wife died 1895 and by 1901 these 4 children not with him - the 2 girls are in St. Marys Home, Tudhoe, Durham although for some reason both shown 2 years younger than they were - the 2 boys are with paternal uncle William McIntyre and his family.
In 1901 there is no trace of Patrick McIntyre, nor Margaret Kavanagh and daughter Catherine - so unknown if they were already together or not.
All I have found is that a T Kavanagh of the Leinster Regt. no. 5566 died in the Boer War of Disease on 20/1/1901. Service records for soldiers that died do not appear in service records listings I believe so another dead end.
Having spent a great deal of time on this knotty problem, my opinion - for what it's worth - is that it is not possible to trace Thomas Kavanagh from the limited details we have from the marriage certificate. No trace in 1891 - no death in UK records - no trace in 1901 (when probably already dead), no idea of his birthplace........
Not what you want to hear, I know, but have exhausted all the online sources I have access to and honestly cannot think of any other avenue to try. There are just too many unknowns.
Sorry!
Annette
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the limited details we have from the marriage certificate.
Eyshame, did you get the marriage certificate from the GRO, or have you got the details from the church register?
If you haven't got the register details I think it might be worth spending a small amount of money to get them from Durham Record Office. Roman Catholic marriage registers occasionally contain additional details of parentage. You might just be lucky ::)
I think I'm right in saying that they married at The Brooms at Leadgate? The registers for The Brooms are held by Durham Record Office. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gy6/
You know the exact date of the marriage so there would be no problem in getting a copy. The table of fees is here. I have found the staff at DRO to be most helpful in the past.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gy7/
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Everything said since my last post is correct regarding Patrick McIntyre etc.
Regarding the Boar War entry, I found that too along with a J Kavanagh and wondered if the 'bothers' had joined up together with only John returning. I contacted not only the Leinster regiment which I am now told is the Green Howards, without any luck as I contacted them too, but I contacted the Boer War Museum in Johannesburg. There is a grave there apparently but the person wanted several hundreds of pounds from me to go look and take one photo - I had to decline.
I was told I could get this information from Kew as it is listed there and it would tell me where he was living at the time of enlistment - not sure if this is true as wasn't able to follow that one up.
I do have the proper marriage certificate, copy from GRO. Married on 7.04.1894 at Lanchester. TK is 27, a bachelor and a coal miner and she is 21 a spinster and domestic servant. The address is Flint Hill Dipton, no street listed. TK's dad is John a labourer and her dad, Owen, is a coal miner. TK signs his name she puts an X. The witnesses are Edward Crenston and Eliz Kennedy. Priest is A. Magill.
I will contact the Durham Reg office tomorrow and see if I can get a church copy.
I have contacted the Durham Mining museums and there is no listing for TK anywhere in my area and only one for Cumbria but there is for Patrick's son/s.
TK did exist but what happened to him?
I am now frightened to start a thread to look for my maternal grandmother's father who has a very similar story attached to him in that I only have his marriage certificate too.
Am I just unlucky?
I hate to give up hope after all these years and hard work along with all the help I have received here, surely there is a way around this- is there?
My very many thanks indeed for all the help from everyone, it truly is appreciated.
E.
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http://www.the-dicksons.org/Leinster_Regiment/soldiers/leinster_soldiers.htm
Not sure if this will be of interest to you eyshame.....or just another complication ???
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Thank you Annette for your explanation about the true identity of Kate and Margaret in 1901. A truly bizarre situation. I did recommend that the whole family be investigated but was unaware that this candidate had already been eliminated.
Eysham I'm sure you have thought about emigration. Miners went all over the world. Did you check with the Mining Museum or Local Archives to see if any particular place was advertising to Durham miners in the 1890s? Might give you a place to check. He could have met with an accident or disease before Margaret could join him.
Like Annette, I have tried all the sources I have access to so I can only wish you good luck in your quest.
Venelow
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Venelow, I haven't checked migration. Didn't think of it given he had a small daughter at home and probably other family somewhere nearby I think. I wouldn't have a clue how to do that as I have no access to anything really unless free at the moment. It is an idea though so thanks.
Larkspur, i recall reading that site - thanks.
Hoping the Catholic Marriage cert will have more information on than the GRO one. What does it usually contain? Any chance it will give any info on mother of TK?
Does no one feel that a link to the 1871 and 1881 census mentioned is connected to TK or was I really grasping at straws?
E.
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Hoping the Catholic Marriage cert will have more information on than the GRO one. What does it usually contain? Any chance it will give any info on mother of TK
There is absolutely no guarantee in this particular case, but there are examples of the officiating priest giving the names of the mothers as well as the fathers, even in some cases the mother's maiden name.
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Does no one feel that a link to the 1871 and 1881 census mentioned is connected to TK or was I really grasping at straws?
E.
I personally feel that the 1871/1881 census details already mentioned are not connected and that, as these were a couple of possible TK's (both younger than your TK) in Durham you were convincing yourself 'it must be him' and trying to make things fit.
Annette
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Does no one feel that a link to the 1871 and 1881 census mentioned is connected to TK
The problem is that it's now clear that (as yet) there's no evidence linking 'your' Thomas Kavanagh who married Margaret Mc Coy in 1894 back to the Thomas you found in the 1871 and 1881 censuses.
It is possible its the same person, although ages don't tie up, but equally possible, as Annette has said, that your Thomas was an Irish immigrant.
Clutching at straws..... I see that John Thomas's death was registered in Newcastle upon Tyne, but he's buried in Gateshead. Durham Records Online gives the residence as 28 Upton Street Gateshead. What was the address in Newcastle for place of death? Who was the informant?
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the residence as 28 Upton Street Gateshead.
1901 census shows 28 Upton Street Gateshead 'to let' ::)
I wonder if this might be Margaret in 1901, using her maiden name (I'm clutching at straws again ::) ) Birthplace is the same as in 1911 :-\
RG 13 / 4760 / 102 / 11
High Street, Gateshead (can't make out the number)
in the household of William Watson
Meggie McCoy, serv, s, 26, housekeeper domestic, Durham Leadgate.
And if it is her, where is Catherine?
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Thanks for the information.
JTK died in Walkergate hospital Newcastle upon Tyne of an infectious disease but buried from 28 Upton Street Gateshead as you say. Mother was the informant. I haven't been able to track down a baptismal record for him (JTK) so wondering if he was baptised in hospital. His birth cert says his father is 'A GATESHEAD MINER' no name given which I thought very odd but mother's name is Marg Kavanagh.
JenB, your find is interesting. I know Margaret's brothers, Mathew and Michael, were living in the same area certainly on the 1901 census at 21 Walker Street Gateshead, Cath B was born at 12 Walker street Gateshead in 1896. The librarian told me that as Marg was not a rent paying person she wouldn't be listed and children were not listed either under a certain age and Cath B would only have been 5 then. The age would fit too as Marg was born 1874 Daisy Hill Leadgate Durham to Owen and Ann Mc Coy. Why would she be using her maiden name? Even if Thomas was dead then would she not keep his name? It would be way too much of a coincidence to have two Marg Mc Coys' living at the address with the same ages and being born at the same place surely?
On the 1911 census Cath Bridget is listed as a McIntyre living at Anfield Terr, Catchgate, Durham. Why not use her real name of Kavanagh?
My head is suggesting that perhaps Thomas, as you say, was an immigrant, a navie, and they married but maybe he did die, or left her for some reason, maybe returning to Ireland himself somewhere between Cath Bridget being born in 1896 and the son JTK be conceived or dying in 1899/1900. Again guess work on my part.
I have never found any records for Thom Kavanagh working as a miner and Durham Mining have long lists going back a long way which is how I found Patrick McIntyre's sons working in Lanchester as miners. I have never found a death or any other records for Thomas other than a marriage cert. If I can get mother's maiden name from the marriage cert maybe I can trace that link - I hope.
I have never had access to immigrant records so not followed that lead up as no idea how to or where to start.
I have contacted Durham records office and will find out tomorrow - I have everything tightly crossed that the priest listed mother's maiden name or an address or something I can follow.
Again many thanks to you all for the information, it is interesting.
E.
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Ireland was part of the U.K. so no records were kept of people travelling between Ireland and England, Scotland and Wales.
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So migration as someone suggested earlier is not possible?
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On the 1911 census Cath Bridget is listed as a McIntyre living at Anfield Terr, Catchgate, Durham. Why not use her real name of Kavanagh?
I've seen a lot of examples in various censuses of children taking on the surname of a stepfather. It's not unusual.
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The fact that TK is not named as the father of JTK - just 'A Gateshead Miner' says to me that TK was not the father at all! TK could have 'disappeared' a lot earlier than you think.
Annette
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So migration as someone suggested earlier is not possible?
Migration is absolutely possible. It's just that, as Aghadowey said, there are no records of movements between, say England and Ireland.
There are lots of records of men called Thomas Kavanagh travelling out to the USA. But proving that any of them was 'your' Thomas just about impossible I'd imagine :(
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The fact that TK is not named as the father of JTK - just 'A Gateshead Miner' says to me that TK was not the father at all! TK could have 'disappeared' a lot earlier than you think.
My thoughts exactly. Patrick could equally well have been his father.
Added - please see my reply #69 below.
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JenB, your find is interesting. I know Margaret's brothers, Mathew and Michael, were living in the same area certainly on the 1901 census at 21 Walker Street Gateshead, Cath B was born at 12 Walker street Gateshead in 1896. The librarian told me that as Marg was not a rent paying person she wouldn't be listed and children were not listed either under a certain age and Cath B would only have been 5 then.
My understanding was that a census included everyone (or should do) and that it didn't exclude certain categories, such as non rent payers or very young children.
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Have looked at all the T/Thomas Cavanagh/Kavanagh's of the right age leaving the UK 1895-1899 and most were single and labourers, one an agricultural labourer and another a Clerk, one with a wife named Ann. Nothing fits with the little we know (plus he could have lied anyway).
Annette
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JenB, your find is interesting. I know Margaret's brothers, Mathew and Michael, were living in the same area certainly on the 1901 census at 21 Walker Street Gateshead, Cath B was born at 12 Walker street Gateshead in 1896. The librarian told me that as Marg was not a rent paying person she wouldn't be listed and children were not listed either under a certain age and Cath B would only have been 5 then.
My understanding was that a census included everyone (or should do) and that it didn't exclude certain categories, such as non rent payers or very young children.
Eyshame are you saying that the librarian told you that, for the reasons you stated, Margaret and Catherine wouldn't appear on the 1901 census ? Surely not!
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Eyshame, I am getting very confused.
Earlier today you said that John Thomas's birth certificate did not give a father's name
JTK died in Walkergate hospital Newcastle upon Tyne of an infectious disease but buried from 28 Upton Street Gateshead as you say. Mother was the informant. I haven't been able to track down a baptismal record for him (JTK) so wondering if he was baptised in hospital. His birth cert says his father is 'A GATESHEAD MINER' no name given which I thought very odd but mother's name is Marg Kavanagh.
However in an earlier reply you said that the father was named
Thanks venelow, That is my grandmother and yes I have her birth cert and yes Thomas is listed as father however, on her marriage cert John Thomas is listed as father. To sort this out I fond a JT who died in 1900 aged 1 year. I then found his burial place and followed that to the address he was buried from, it was a known family address and Marg was living there at the time so I am happy this was her son and my grandmother's brother.
I bought JTK's birth cert and Thomas K is listed as father with mother being the same. I can only guess that as she was only 6 years old when her mother remarried she did not know of her brother so mixed the names up in later life, but I am happy with the evidence that John Thomas K is son of TK and brother to CBK as mother's name and address are the same.
Which is correct - is Thomas named or not? If not, as Annette has said, this means that he could well have vanished from the scene shortly after Catherine's birth, which could account for non-appearance in 1901.
We are all more than willing to help, but in order to do so we really do need consistent information :)
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i have been following this post with much interest as i myself have a gentleman who is much more recent in terms of dates, but i cannot find where he went. nothing adds up and ive been searching for a LONG time. every so often i will come back to it and find another tiny little piece of information about him online. remember records are being added online all the time. i just wanted to tell you not to give up. let it lie a little, then come back to it and go through it all piece by tiny piece only writing down what you know as fact, rather than guess or hopes. you never know something might come to light later on.
also i know you are all far more experienced than me and some of you have probably looked but has anyone checked online newspapers? with my man i looked for just the surname (it was anusual one to be fair though) and a county in the search box. 3 or 4 times i over looked the article that was the key to some of my research. my man had an alias which was used in the paper, but his mother didnt which the paper also refered to in the same aritcle.
dont want to confuse everyone search more, but just thought to suggest it. i have no credits left to do any searches in online newspapers.
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Was Thomas Kavanagh the informant on Catherine's birth certificate? If not he could have disappeared 9 months before she was born.
I have found the death of JTK age one registered in Newcastle district, but can't find a corresponding birth on the index (tried both freebmd and FindMyPast)
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I have found the death of JTK age one registered in Newcastle district, but can't find a corresponding birth on the index (tried both freebmd and FindMyPast)
Birth: John Cavanagh, 3rd q. 1898, Newcastle on Tyne 10b, 163.
4th q 1898, John Thomas Cavanagh, Gateshead 10a, 887
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I have found the death of JTK age one registered in Newcastle district, but can't find a corresponding birth on the index (tried both freebmd and FindMyPast)
Birth: John Cavanagh, 3rd q. 1898, Newcastle on Tyne 10b, 163.
4th q 1898, John Thomas Cavanagh, Gateshead 10a, 887
Thanks - so it was spelt with a "C" and I did a phonetic search on surname on FreeBMD too. But it only came up with alternatives starting with K.
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His birth cert says his father is 'A GATESHEAD MINER' no name given which I thought very odd but mother's name is Marg Kavanagh.
he was only married in 1894 and Marg. had two children who on their birth certs of 1896 and 1898 he is named as father of both.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cumberland/2009-08/1251287499
Which is correct please?
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Returning late to this party ;D & having read through all this thread ¬ finding a reference to it [but NOT having read all the other threads], can I just double check that the death certificate suggested to eyshame by 'Steve' on rootsweb archiver [JenB's find] has NOT been obtained & analysed?
3) Most likely and you won`t like this
Marriage June Q 1894 Lanchester Margaret Mcoy
Death Sep Q 1894 Thomas Cavanagh age 28 Gateshead
Margaret as a young widow has two kids naming her deceased husband as the
father
Josey
PS you're all welcome to shoot me down if it has been obtained & I've miissed it - time to leave the party again possibly ;D
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Ha!!
I was just musing on exactly the same posting on Rootsweb (dated 2009)
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cumberland/2009-08/1251287499
Did you get the death certificate as suggested?
That Thomas Cavanagh's burial is on Durham Records Online. Age at death 28, i.e. born c. 1866.
Address Mulgrave Terrace.
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Well done Josey http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cumberland/2009-08/1251299975
Beat me to it Jen!!
Name Thomas Kavanagh
Gender Male
Birth Date 20 Mar 1866
Baptism Date 01 Apr 1866
Baptism Place St. Joseph's, Gateshead, Durham, England
FHL Film Number 2046403
Reference ID item 3 v 3 p 155
Parents Thomas Kavanagh and Catharina Ginty
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(.....in a whisper as embarrassed not to remember :-[) can anyone remind me if the address Mulgrave Terrace features on any census or child's birth registration for Margaret's children?
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Death Sep Q 1894 Thomas Cavanagh age 28 Gateshead
There are some newspaper articles about the manslaughter of a Thomas Cavanagh in Gateshead in August 1894 :o
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this was the newspaper article that got me thinking had anyone looked? i saw it but couldnt read the full story as i have no credits.
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Well done Josey http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cumberland/2009-08/1251299975
Beat me to it Jen!!
Name Thomas Kavanagh
Gender Male
Birth Date 20 Mar 1866
Baptism Date 01 Apr 1866
Baptism Place St. Joseph's, Gateshead, Durham, England
FHL Film Number 2046403
Reference ID item 3 v 3 p 155
Parents Thomas Kavanagh and Catharina Ginty
Children of Thomas Cavanagh & Catherine Ginty-
1. Thomas (1866 Gateshead) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLDP-39R
2. Maria Joanna (1868 Gateshead) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLDP-D44
3. Catharina (1870 Gateshead) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTRV-YQC
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The Thomas who died in 1894 was a cartman :-\
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this was the newspaper article that got me thinking had anyone looked? i saw it but couldnt read the full story as i have no credits.
I can only find a brief account in the Middlesbrough Gazette of November 1894. No details whatsoever about the victim.
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Wasn't the father of the Thomas we're looking for called John, the one who died in 1894 was the son of Thomas
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Wasn't the father of the Thomas we're looking for called John, the one who died in 1894 was the son of Thomas
Think the father's name was John according to 1894 marriage certificate.
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Wasn't the father of the Thomas we're looking for called John, the one who died in 1894 was the son of Thomas
Yes.
Thanks Annette7. In truth all I do have evidence of is his marriage certificate, a real one. He was married to Margaret Mc Coy in April 1894 at Lanchester Co Durham. Father John listed as a labourer.
So the Thomas Kavanagh born Gateshead 1866 to Thomas Kavanagh and Catherine Ginty cannot be the one we are looking for.
Still need to find out who the Thomas Kavanagh was who died in 1894 - was he Thomas and Catherine's son or 'our' Thomas?
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The newspaper reports state that Thomas was killed during a quarrel.
His residence was 20 Mulgrave Street.
There is no clue in any of the articles that I can see as to his family connections.
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I thought I recalled him being killed at work but obviously not. Not my TK given CBK's birth. PHEW.
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I thought I recalled him being killed at work but obviously not. Not my TK given CBK's birth. PHEW.
Please can you reply to my post #70 and clarify the confusion about the details on the birth certificates?
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Was Thomas Kavanagh the informant on Catherine's birth certificate?
Has LizzieL's question been answered since her posting - or earlier or elsewhere?
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I thought I recalled him being killed at work but obviously not. Not my TK given CBK's birth. PHEW.
And where on earth does this come from? several of us have been running around in circles trying to help and you don't seem to given us all the information you had to start with :-\
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My last post didn't post.
This is all my evidence.
Marriage cert GRO for TK and M. McCoy 07.04.1894 Lanchester Durham. I will find out about a Church wedding cert tomorrow and can only hope it gives some mother's info - fingers crossed.
Birth cert for CBK and Baptismal record lists TK as father on both with mother as the informant.
GRO for JTK has 'A GATESHEAD MINER' listed no name given. No Baptismal record found to date so not sure if he wasn't baptised or baptised in the Newcastle Infirmary where he died in May 1900 aged 18 months, the hospital is no longer there.
This is all the evidence I have to-date.
Thanks for the post Rachaelralf, I won't give up - I have tried but can't do it.
As a side line and please don't shoot me - I linked Ferry Hill John to my TK as Patrick Mc Intyre was godfather to Ferry Hill John son, they obviously knew each other and lived close to each other too. I have the Baptismal record of this child.
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GRO for JTK has 'A GATESHEAD MINER' listed no name given. No Baptismal record found to date so not sure if he wasn't baptised or baptised in the Newcastle Infirmary where he died in May 1900 aged 18 months, the hospital is no longer there.
So - please confirm there is NO FATHER'S NAME on John Thomas's 1898 birth certificate. But there is a father's occupation?
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Confirmed JenB.
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Confirmed JenB.
Therefore, as Annette7 observed in reply #64, Thomas could have vanished from the scene several years before his birth.
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If he wasn't the informant on CBK's birth cert, he might have disappeared 9 months before her birth. He needn't be actually present to be named as father if he is married to the mother.
What was CBK's birth date?
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If he wasn't the informant on CBK's birth cert, he might have disappeared 9 months before her birth. He needn't be actually present to be named as father if he is married to the mother.
Exactly. And taking it one step further he didn't actually have to be the father to be named as the father ::) as was suggested here http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/cumberland/2009-08/1251286260
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Any thing is possible I totally agree.
CBK's birth is 01.08.1896.
Patrick's first wife, Suzanna, nee Tyson, died in 1897 in Durham but being coal miner too and from what JenB says maybe Patrick was the father and she just named TK as such. But why would she do that?
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When the (married) mother of a child went to register the birth it was assumed that the husband was the child's father (I think this has perhaps already been said?).
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But as she reported TK as CBK's father isn't she running a risk of being found out lying?
OK, she could have had an affair with Patrick and CBK could be his and she just named her hubby to divert talk - guess that is possible too.
Patricks and Marg's grandchildren and great grandchildren live near by but they won't help as they found out their mother, Suzanna, born after CBK, was born out of wedlock and they, being Catholic, won't accept that so won't help at all - I tried. they have photos of Marg and Patrick but won't share at all. Shame they feel like that but...
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Have poor law records been looked at? If Thomas died/left her she may well have had to apply for parish relief and these records can often show why said person is having to apply to the parish. Whilst this could reveal what happened to Thomas i.e. death or abandoning her, it is not going to give his birth details. At best it will only be known what became of him.
We keep coming back to where it all started - a Thomas Kavanagh bc.1866/67, Coal Miner (literate), son of John Kavanagh, labourer married to Margaret McCoy in 1894. It is not known where he was born and he wasn't around in 1891. If the church record of the marriage does not reveal any further details then I don't think it's going to be possible to learn any further details of his roots.
Annette
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For elimination purposes this looks like the Thomas who died in 1894. We know he was a cartman.
1891 census
RG 12 / 4181 / 25 / 6
in the household of Frank Bush
6, Lambton Street Gateshead
Thomas Carannah, lodger, un, 24, Cartman, Durham Gateshead
RG 11/ 5033/126/33
11 Cato Street, Gateshead
Katherine Cavannah, head, widow, 42, general servant, Ireland
with four children Michael aged 19, Mary Jane aged 12, Catherine aged 10 and
Thomas Cavannah, son, unm, 15, Labourer Machiners, Durham Gateshead
RG 10 / 5054 / 78 / 21
Veitch's Buildings Gateshead
Thomas Cavanagh, head, mar, 38, labourer, Ireland
Katherine Cavanagh, wife, mar, 33, Ireland
with four children, michael 9, Mary Jane 3, Catherine 1 and
Thomas Cavanagh, son, 5, scholar, Durham Gateshead
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Annette7, I know nothing of the Poor Laws and no idea how or here to start but yes, it might give a clue. Even if we find out death or abandonment it would be something.
I am waiting for the Church wedding info from Durham and will write as soon as I find out - even if there is no information.
Many thanks again
E.
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Durham records office have confirmed they have the Church marriage papers of TK and M. McC but will not give any further information at all so another dead end. Was told it will take about two weeks to have it posted to me so thought someone on Look-ups might be quicker for now. I will also ask any friends if they will be going to Durham in the near future but for now another let down.
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i think if someone was able to look up the marriage they would have done so already. you might have to wait the 2 weeks for it to be posted to you.
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Durham records office have confirmed they have the Church marriage papers of TK and M. McC but will not give any further information at all so another dead end
another let down
My suggestion of contacting Durham Records Office was based on the presumption that you would be willing to pay their very reasonable copying cost to obtain the marriage record from the church register.
There was never any suggestion on my part that they would give you the information over the phone.
I am amazed that you aren't willing to pay this and expect someone to go and do a look up for you.
I and others have given a lot of time to this search, which makes it all the more disappointing and demoralizing to realize that you are unwilling to pay this small amount of money for a record that might possibly be of assistance.
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I must agree with JenB. I've noticed in other threads you've often said you phoned somewhere and they wouldn't/couldn't give you any information. In todays world, if the records you seek are not online (and right now, what you need isn't) then unless you visit the place yourself you are not going to be able to learn the details of what is in the document. Record Offices, Register Offices will not give specific information over the phone and you will need to pay their charges to obtain copies of a certain document.
As to Poor Law records - no doubt they are at Durham Record Office too BUT these will not be indexed and would mean trawling through the various years records which will no doubt take some considerable time. A lot for a 'volunteer' to take on for you in a lookup and there's no guarantee they'll be anything there if she never applied for relief from the parish.
I notice that you only use 'free' sites but when the information you want is quite specific and not available online then I'm afraid you have to pay for the service.
Annette
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Well said & politely put, JenB & Annette.
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If I read Durham record office scale of charges correctly it would be £3.60 for 1 x A4 sheet including postage. It would be a lot if several sheets were involved, but I would expect this to be only one sheet, possibly two at most. So the cost would be less than 1 BMD cert from GRO.
The only downside is the form has to be sent by post with a cheque. When I ordered some copies from West Sussex RO recently I could scan and email the form and pay by card over the phone, which speeded up the process. The copies arrived very quickly and looked like they'd taken some trouble to get good copies of what was probably quite a faded and small book.
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If I read Durham record office scale of charges correctly it would be £3.60 for 1 x A4 sheet including postage.
That is correct, and in my opinion it's very reasonable.
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Sorry JenB, I have looked at my recent posts and no where have I ever said I am, or would be, unwilling to pay for the cert, I guess you presumed that.
The cost is £3.60p., and they are sending me the forms. I can do nothing now but wait and am happy to pay the costs. Indeed over the years I have spent quite a lot of money on certificates after deciding to research my family tree with one branch leads to another as I am sure you are all aware of hence the cost involved in this type of research is not cheap.
I simply thought that if someone could do a look up it would be quicker so I would know quicker and not have the agony of waiting another two weeks as I was getting quite excited at the possibility of a new, hopefully positive lead.
Yes I have phoned places in the past as my phone and the internet are my lifelines. I now use free sites as I once paid for all the necessary sites and it cost a fortune, I am sure you all agree that the costs can be quite high but again, no choice - you have to pay if you want the service and I do. Since I only really have Thomas to find, and never ever being able to find him when I paid for sites. I did loose heart and tried the free sites - again without luck.
I am very well aware of the help I have received on here and am very grateful for it too and no way would I want anyone to feel disappointed or demoralized and I am upset that you have suggested that people are JenB. I believe you read me wrong and maybe you are not alone but I am not a mizer, however, disability often prevents a lot of things therefore people like me have no choice but to pay.
Through out my posts I believe I have always expressed my gratitude for the help I have received and do not withdraw it now not shall I ever but I do feel some presumptions have been made, and made wrongly.
My kindest regards to you all and once again my grateful thanks to everyone who has helped me.
E.