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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Famtreebuilder on Sunday 24 January 16 01:21 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to decipher this death record - it's very faded so it's difficult.
So far I've got:
Archibald Sommervill (Collier)? Widower
died 1859 June Second ? ? ? Poorhouse (death was registered in New Monkland but I can't make out what's above poorhouse)
M 59 years
James Sommervill Labourer Deceased Margaret ? Deceased - the thing I'm most keen to work out is the mother's maiden name but I have a feeling that line has been rubbed out :(
Dysentery 3 weeks ? ? MD June 2nd
New Monkland Churchyard - James Hendry B?
William Sommervill his x mark son ? ? ? ?
Any help greatly appreciated! Thanks.
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Hi ft,
Surname for Margaret looks like Frame?
Can you post what the headings say please on the columns.
What is the heading for where it says New Monkland Churchyard?
Annie
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Here are the headings Annie - the one for New Monkland is Burial Place.
I wondered about Frame and someone also thought Irvine. Thanks :)
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You can adjust the image yourself, or if that does not work, contact them, and they will improve it.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Static/JavaApplet/daeja_manual/olmanual12.html
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&458
Regards
Malky
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Above Poorhouse looks like 9 Hrs 30 M(ins) PM?
Annie
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Thanks Malky - I was thinking of asking them to re-scan. Sometimes when they re-scan it's light and day.
Yes I see 9h30mins PM now Annie - thanks!
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Name below Churchyard looks like James Hendry Beadle being his full name?
Annie
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William Sommervill his x mark son looks like John McArthur but below that I can't hazzard a guess unless the last word is witness?
Annie
EDIT.....Could it be Nephew, Witness?
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Did Archibald have any children with a middle name as this can be an indicator of mother's maiden name.
Do you know if Archibald had any siblings whose deaths you can check for parents?
Annie
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Thanks Annie - I see Beadle now too and John MacArthur is right but it's registrar not nephew. I had another look at the entries above and one of them has "John MacArthur, Registrar, Witness" on it.
I don't know if Archibald had any siblings since I'm not sure on his parents - that's what I'd love to try and find out. The only baptism for an Archibald Sommerville in the right time period and right place to a James and Margaret took place 22nd Jul 1798 in Old Monkland and the mother's maiden name was Henry which doesn't match the death. Either that's correct and the death cert is wrong or my Archibald's baptism wasn't recorded (quite probable).
Thanks again.
Edit to add - yes he did have children with middle names (two I can link to his wife's mother but there is one that I don't know about and that is Frew).
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Quite often children don't know their grandmother's maiden name.........I've had it a few times myself.
It is also possible that Archibald's father married a 2nd time & only her maiden name remembered?
Worth looking for children of Archibald with both womens names & compare dates if any are found?
Also the surname could be a link with the James Hendry Beadle mentioned although a variant of Henry???
www.familysearch.org
Annie
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I wonder if what looks like Frame could be Frew ???
Annie
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Yes that's very true - I've seen many mistakes on mother's maiden name on death certificates so I don't look on them with any certainty unless there are other primary records that confirm the same maiden name. Also true Archibald's father could have married twice.
I've searched for children of a James Sommerville with a Margaret Frame, Margaret Frew and Margaret Irvine but there's nothing - of course that's not to say such a couple didn't exist, just that there are no baptismal records online. The only one that yields anything is James and Margaret Henry but it's definitely not Henry on the death cert - again that doesn't mean she wasn't Archibald's mother and William just got the name wrong. There could have been confusion as Archibald wife was Agnes Henry and perhaps William didn't know or realise his grandmother's surname was the same as his mother's. No way to prove it though.
James Hendry (Beadle) was what passes for the "undertaker" in that column so unlikely to be related but you never know.
I've wondered if it could be Frew too but it really doesn't look like it ???
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Hello Farmtreebuilder,
I would ask SP for a re-scan because the one part impossible to make out is the maiden name of Archibald's mother. Death Certificates would normally give the mother's married name followed by her maiden name but there appears to be just one name here. I don't think anything has been rubbed out. Any changes on a Certificate would have a note in the margin initialled by the Registrar.
Here's my attempt. Not sure of the first letter in the Doctor's surname.
Sommervill, Archibald, Collier, Widower.
1859, June, Second. 9h 30m P.M. Poorhouse.
M(ale). 59 Years.
James Sommerville, Labourer, Deceased.
Margaret ------, Deceased. (Might be Irvine)
Dysentery, 3 Weeks, Simon ?urrock, M.D. June 2nd.
New Monkland Churchyard. James Hendry, Beadle.
(Signed) William Sommervill, His X Mark, Son. (Signed) John Macarthur, Registrar, Witness.
1859, June 3rd. At New Monkland. (Signed) John Macarthur, Registrar.
Regards, Dod.
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Thanks Dod - I think we've got pretty much all of it now (apart from being sure on Margaret's maiden name). I'll definitely ask them for a re-scan.
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I've searched for children of a James Sommerville with a Margaret Frame, Margaret Frew and Margaret Irvine but there's nothing
Frame may have been an error, knowing her maiden name began with "F"
Have you searched for a death of a Margaret, surname Sommervile (soundex) other name Frew/Frame?
Annie
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Yes I've searched Annie but there's nothing - this is not surprising though. She had Archibald in the 1790s so her death is highly likely to have occurred pre-1855 and pre-1855 Scottish death records are sparse.
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Margaret IRVINE
Simon STURROCK
:)
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If it turns out to be too difficult to work out the name of Archibald's mother from this certificate, there is one other thing you might do. As he was illegitimate (if he was legitimate, his mother would be recorded here as Margaret Sommervill MS .....), you could find the parish of his birth from the 1851 census and look at the minutes of its kirk session for that time. The session would probably have investigated the birth and details of the parents would be given.
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Agnes HENDRY, dau William & Jane WALKER is a sister of my ancestor James HENDRY m Katherine McFARLANE.
We know she married Archibald SOMMERVILLE, see this from 1999 - where the poster has both parties died before 1855.
<https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/lanark@rootsweb.com/thread/15748444/>
The Archibald who died a widow in 1859 - how is it known he was the widow of Agnes HENDRY?
Regarding the mystery of his mother's maiden name. Perhaps SHE re-married a FREW, hence Daniel FREW SOMMERVILLE b 1827
Regards, Don McArthur
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Name below Churchyard looks like James Hendry Beadle being his full name?
Annie
Hello,
Beadle will be James Hendry's occupation/role, not his surname. He would have been an assistant in the parish and kept records etc.
Best wishes
Rockford
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I have found AN Archibald SOMERVILLE in the 1861 as 'father-in-law' of his son William SOMERVILLE [m Ann WALKER]. I presume Ann gave the relationship to the enumerator.
<https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBWB-WQH>
He was not the Archibald who died in Anderston in 1866 at 72y.
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Name below Churchyard looks like James Hendry Beadle being his full name?
Beadle will be James Hendry's occupation/role, not his surname. He would have been an assistant in the parish and kept records etc.
Thanks Rockford, makes more sense now!
Annie