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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: vhowie on Friday 15 January 16 00:19 GMT (UK)
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I have found William Pentecost in the 1841 census Middlesex, St Marylebone, St John, District 9living at 13 Hardington Street with his wife Phoebe and two children William and Elizabeth. I cannot make out his trade. Also at the front of the census I cannot make out the streets named in this census book.
I am doing an assignment which involves googling the streets where ancestors lived. I cannot find Hardington Street on a current google map which suggest a name change. Also William lived at Grave Lane in 1836 and Little Alie st in 1838. I would love to find a map with these streets that could be superimposed onto todays maps. If this is not possible I would like an idea of where the streets were or still are. I would also like any references to life in this area in the 1840s.
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Hi
I am open to correction here, but it looks like the initials M.S
which could be Man/Male Servant
claire
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Agree with MS - Male servant
The road before Hardington Street on the census schedule is Great Carlisle Street (page 13 of census) if that helps
This link
http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/Marylebone/CarlisleSt16.shtml
suggests some of Great Carlisle Street became Manning Street.
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Links to a few nicely detailed maps -:
Cruchley 1846:
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1846map/1846map_linkc.htm
(click on an area to enlarge)
[excellent] Stanford map of London 1862:
http://www.mappalondon.com/london/north-west/map.htm
(continue to click on appropriate area to zoom in further)
I'll have a look to see if I can find any of the streets you mention.
Added: Found Hardington St in the centre of map on the left:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=51.5229&lon=-0.1727&layers=176&right=BingHyb
Sadly it no longer exists (use your cursor to compare locations of streets on old and new maps)
If you scroll around the map a bit you can see the surrounding streets as mentioned in the 1841 census eg Carlisle St, Church St, Princess St ...
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Re: Grave Lane and Little Alie Street
Are they also in Marylebone?
Where did these street names come from (eg baptism record)? (am trying to put them into some kind of context).
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Little Alie Street:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=17&lat=51.5150&lon=-0.0700&layers=6&right=BingHyb
(big old mess there now and bears no resemblance to when your family lived there) :(
I can't find any reference to a Grave Lane.
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It's not Gravel Lane is it?
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=19&lat=51.5149&lon=-0.0772&layers=168&right=BingHyb
(it's in the vicinity) :)
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Thanks Ruski you are a champion. I would have searched and searched and never found the map with Hardington St. The other streets were Gravel St. (Sorry, I incorrectly wrote Grave St) in 1836 this is recorded on son's baptism and Little Alie St 1838 recorded on daughter's baptism. Residence Marylebone.Thank you to others who have contributed. I now have plenty of information to work on.
Once again thank you.
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On looking at son William's Baptism record again I perhaps have the wrong location for Gravel Lane.
William was baptised in the Parish of St Saviour, Southwark,in the county of Surrey in 1836.
Abode Gravel Lane, Father's occupation Groom.
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As the baptism is in a different area, are you sure this is the same Pentecost family? It is very possible but still worth double checking in case there was a second William and Phoebe in Southwark.
Perhaps your family lived in Southwark before moving to Marylebone for example? Did William and Phoebe marry in Southwark?
Was William a Groom on his other children's birth certificates?
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Using the information found here about the location of Zoar Street and Gravel Lane:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol22/p93
I found the appropriate streets here:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=51.5066&lon=-0.0992&layers=168&right=BingHyb
The area has changed a lot.
I don't know if there would be any other Gravel Lanes in Southwark ...... as this one is a long time before 1836, and there were probably changes in the area even in those days.
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Here is Gravel Lane on the 1746 Rocque map:
http://www.locatinglondon.org/
(As usual you can zoom in and out) You can also drop the little google maps man to see the location on a modern map. This takes you to Great Suffolk Street. Hopton street continues north towards the river so presumably this is the location of Gravel Lane.
I do wonder if this Gravel Lane would still have existed in 1836. :-\ Maybe the locals still called it Gravel Lane even if the streets and names had changed? :-\
More maps required I think. :)
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A map of 1826:
http://users.bathspa.ac.uk/greenwood/map_e6u.html
(a little difficult to see the street name, but it is just to the right of Great Surrey St (now the A201))
Gravel Lane in 1826 is now Great Suffolk Street. (I think I might have confused myself by finding it on the Rocque map as Gravel Lane at that time went further north towards the river.)
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There will be lots of information about life in London in the mid 1800s. I'm sure google will give many results.
This may be useful though may be later than you want:
http://booth.lse.ac.uk/
And the maps:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guv/
(you will probably need to fiddle to find the correct location)
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Hi I have posted extracts from Ancestry. I did wonder at the difference in Districts, however I am sure this is the same William son of William and Phoebe Pentecost who were my GGG grandparents.
William Snr's occupation was not always listed as groom ,however when he migrated to Australia in 1849, he is listed as occupation groom. Perhaps times were hard and he had to work at various occupations eg labourer and male servant. I have been able to complete my assignment with the information you have given me. Thank you so much. I will leave post open for a few days to track down any further information.
William Edmund Pentecost
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 23 May 1813
Father's Name John Pentecost
Mother's Name Elizabeth Pentecost
Parish or Poor Law Union St Marylebone
Borough Westminster
Register Type Parish Registers
William Pentecost
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 4 Dec 1836
Father's Name William Pentecost
Mother's Name Pheebe Pentecost
Parish or Poor Law Union Southwark St Saviour
Borough Southwark
Register Type Parish Registers
Elizabeth Pentecost
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 29 Jul 1838
Father's Name William Edmund Pentecost
Mother's Name Phabe Pentecost
Parish or Poor Law Union Whitechapel St Mary
Borough Tower Hamlets
Register Type Parish Registers
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Have you looked at the original for Elizabeth's 1838 baptism?
The abode looks like Little Prescott St to me .... :-\
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Hi , I got the Little Alie Street from Find my Past record.
First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name PENTECOST
Birth year 1838
Birth date 24/07/1838
Baptism year 1838
Baptism date 29 Jul 1838
Father's first name(s) William Edmund
Mother's first name(s) Phoebe
Father's occupation Labourer
Address Little Alie Street
Parish St Mary, Whitechapel
Notes -
Church address Whitechapel High Street
County London
Country England
Transcriber note -
Archive reference X024/095
Record set London, Docklands and East End Baptisms, 1558-1933
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That is a transcription. I believe it is incorrect. In fact I don't know how whoever transcribed it saw Little Alie Street as it looks nothing like that to me. :-\
I will attempt to send you the image via PM as I am unable to do so here.
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I have located Little Prescott Street. It was difficult to track down as it's not marked on a lot of maps I have. It is actually just south of Little Alie Street.
Just north of the 'a' in Royal Mint Street on this map:
http://london1872.com/stanford37b.htm
It was a narrow alley running north/south along the path of the current Mansell Street, between the Goods Depots in the left hand map:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=51.5108&lon=-0.0725&layers=176&right=BingHyb
Added: Am having trouble sending you the snip of the street name from the baptism register via PM. If you want to PM me your email address I can try emailing it to you.