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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: jennywren001 on Tuesday 05 January 16 19:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone and Happy New Year!
In 1841 James Rigby age 2, born Ireland is with his parents Thomas Rigby and Ann Fraser living Philorth House, Fraserburgh. In 1851 James Rigby is living with his grandad James Fraser on Mid Street in Fraserburgh showing age 12, born Ireland. I'm failing to find him on the 1861 census - I think he might be daddy to a Mary Jane Low (known by Rigby) born in the March of 1861.
Jen
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There is a Mary Jane Rigby aged 14 days living as Grandaughter to an Elenor Low aged 54, and her family at 5 Castle St, Fraserburgh.
Might that be Mary Jane? If so James Rigby is not present.
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This particular Mary Jane Rigby was the illegitimate daughter of Christian Low aged 22 and present at the same address.
I realise that this doesn't help as far as James' whereabouts!
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I'm thinking the birth of Mary Jane Low is perhaps a contributing factor in his elusiveness but on the other hand it could just be down to the quality of the census return....
Jen
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You may be right -- have you seen the birth cert on Scotlands People?
There is something written down the side of it which I cannot decipher fully. It is something like;
"Paternity of child ? by ? of Court. Vol 1 p 19 - 17 October 1861 (or 1862)"
So it looks like a Paternity suit was filed against the father. I am not sure where such records would be held for Scotland. In England they are usually in the local Archives under Affiliation Orders or Bastardy Bonds.
There may also be something in the local press if the case was heard in Court.
Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the Scottish system for such records can help here (unless you are already aware of this of course).
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I've not seen the certificate at SP but there should be something in the Register of Corrected Entries - I've got lots of those in my files - one relative has three alone and they are all different ploughmen ::)
Jen
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You just need to pay another credit to view the RCE on scotlandspeople. It will have the information you need.
flst
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Sorry, my fault, got people going down the wrong dreel with Mary Jane Low...I'm just trying to find James in 1861 a relative has suggested he might have gone to Orkney but I've found nothing there.
Jen
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If James is named as the father, his name, occupation & current address will be on the RCE.
flst
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I hadn't ignored James -- just couldn't find him.
I have searched the UK census records as a whole in 1861 - but could not find the James Rigby born Ireland (unless of course incorrect info had been supplied to the census enumerator).
This is why - when I saw the reference to a Court case on the birth cert for Mary Jane Low - I thought the Court records may well give James address.
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Me being s l o w....
Jen
off shopping at SP back with detail of the RCE shortly...
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It's him alright, James Rigby, Plasterer, Constitution Road, Aberdeen (on the 5th November 1862).
Jen
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Still not found him in 1861 for sure (although there's a James Rigley knocking around!) ----BUT - in 1871 there is a James 'Riglay' in Brunswick St, Edinburgh --- aged 33, a Plasterer born Aberdeen, Fraserburgh
He has a wife Mary G. and 3 children;
William G aged 7
Christina S aged 3
Thomas aged 1
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Just checked the marriage for James Rigby.
He married a Mary Gordon in Nov 1862 - his address 11 Constitution St Aberdeen.
Occupation Plasterer.
Father Thomas Rigby.
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Thanks Pennines, well found :) looks like he might have adopted Fraserburgh as his place of birth.
Jen
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Hi
There is a tree on Ancestry which has extensive details of James Fraser Rigby and they have attached a census for a John F Ryly Plasterer born Fraserburgh living in 26mount Hooly Street Shetland
Norma
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On the census in the same household is an Alexander Bissett born 1840 born Aberdeen also a plasterer, John Fraser born 1840 Aberdeen also a plasterer, John Laurence born 1842 Aberdeen plumber and Alexander Ingram b1838 Aberdeen Head of household and a plumber.
Perhaps you could try looking for these on SP and then looking at the original to see if it is your John Rigby who has been mistranscribed by Ancestry
Norms
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I've attached a snip of the original census (indexed Rigly at SP). I don't know about you but that looks like John F Rigby to me, age - well if I was transcribing this I'd say 26 (indexed 20), place of birth Fraserburgh. So wrong age, place of birth and first name but definitely the right guy don't you think ;D
Thanks to everyone for helping me find my elusive Rigby.
Jen
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Hello jennywren001,,
I would say the same guy. Shouldn't think there are many plasterers named Rigby with a connection to Fraserburgh.
1881 & 1891 Census, James, Mary & family are living in Rutherglen, Lanarkshire. 1901 Census, Mary (Rigley) is housekeeping for sons James & John.
There is a death for a James Rigby at Rutherglen in 1893 & Mary Rigby other name Gordon, 1902. (Scotlandspeople)
Regards, Dod.
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Jen -- I agree with you that the age on the 1861 census snippet is 26.
Interesting to read that the tree on Ancestry names him as John Fraser Rigby -- and there is also a John Fraser living at the same address as your particular John in 1861.
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He starts out (I think) as plain old James Rigby but becomes James Fraser Rigby over time. I needed a break from my Fieldings so decided to return to my neglected Frasers. The James Fraser with his grandson James Rigby in 1851 is my 5xs great grandfather - James Fraser's son Andrew (also a butcher) is my direct line, Andrew's sister Ann is mother to James Fraser Rigby.
I have seen trees on Ancestry for this family but to be honest unless I work through myself and gather all the evidence and join all the dots I'm never happy :-[
The wee Rigby lad sparked my interest so now I'm following through on all of the children born to James Fraser and Jean Lorimer. So much for sticking to my direct line!
Jen
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That Rigby boy has a lot to answer for! I've attached a family sheet on all nine children of James Fraser born Rathen 1776 and Jean Lorimer just in case anyone else is looking at this family.
The only puzzle I'm now left with is a James Fraser born January, 1834, Fraserburgh a year after his parents (John Fraser and Mary Falconer) marry. I can't find him in 41 or 51 but he turns up in 61 age 27 living with his cousin another James Fraser - son of Andrew. I'm pretty sure it's him as in 1866 he gets married in Fraserburgh, lists his parent as John and Mary and his occupation as a cooper (same trade when with his cousin in 61). James the cooper and his brothers would appear to leave Scotland for new Zealand in the 1860s....
Jen
Edit: Adding this link http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=521806.0
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Do you think before the birth of Mary in 1861 James did a runner to Edinburgh? and by changing his name tried to avoid the paternity suit against him by Mary jane Low? its interesting to note after he left Aberdeen he went to Edinburgh(as shown by the birth of his daughter Louisa in 1871) before moving through to Rutherglen. I've been searching for James in 1861 for years now and I think the John F Rigley is our man, do you think the John Fraser is related to Anne Fraser, James's mother?.
Many thanks to all for solving this mystery any questions on the Rigbys, that anyone is stuck with I will try and answer. Fraser Rigby.
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William Rigby, son of Thomas Rigby and Anne Fraser, married my 1st cousin 3 times removed, Janet Marshall. I have quite a lot of information about their descendants.
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Hi FraserRigby and welcome to Rootschat,
"Do you think before the birth of Mary in 1861 James did a runner to Edinburgh? and by changing his name tried to avoid the paternity suit against him by Mary jane Low? its interesting to note after he left Aberdeen he went to Edinburgh(as shown by the birth of his daughter Louisa in 1871) before moving through to Rutherglen."
James Rigby and Mary Duncan appear to have had two children in Aberdeen in the late 1860s before leaving for Edinburgh so I can't see the birth of Mary Jane Low as being the cause but who knows?
"...do you think the John Fraser is related to Anne Fraser, James's mother"
This would be the John Fraser who was married to Mary Falconer...yes I think this John is Anne Fraser's brother for the following reasons.
John Fraser died in 1846 age 36 according to father's death certificate.
I believe the John Fraser with Mary in the 1841 living Fraserburgh is this John.
When John's son Charles is born in 1838 a James and Andrew Fraser sign as witnesses.
John calls his first born son James.
John's youngest son John has the middle name Davidson – John's sister Margaret married Charles Davidson
John's oldest son James is living with his cousin in 1861 – Another James (my 3rd GGF) – son of Andrew (my 4th GGF) who is sister to Anne Fraser
I'm not sure about the 'name' changes - James/John Fraser Rigby - he does not use Fraser as a middle name when he marries but it is on his death certificate. I don't have his childrens birth certificates perhaps they indicate when 'Fraser' was added.
I'm stuck at John Fraser and Isabella Henderson in Arglessie in the 1770s....
Jen
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by changing his name
Has anyone looked at the original of the 1861 census to check whether he really did change his name, or whether it is one of those mistranscriptions for which A******y is so justly notorious?
The 1871 looks like another mistranscription of Rigby.
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Attached is the 61 census - Looks like John F Rigby to me. I think the John with him will be his cousin John Fraser - son of James Fraser - eldest son of James Fraser and Jean Lorimer! I don't know about a name change as he was born in Ireland and I've never looked for his birth record.
Forfarian if you have a connection to these Rigbys that means you have a links to the branches of three of my four grandparents is that a tad unusual?
Jen
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Hi All thanks for the info, when you hit a wall it can be so frustrating, James Fraser Rigby is my 3rd great Grandfather and I have been researching the Rigbys for over 30 yrs now so the brick walls are starting to become a regular thing for me now. Something that I have noticed is that depending on who writes down the info depends on how it is spelt, James fraser Rigbys marriage cert. gives his name as Regby!
James Fraser Rigby had a child Maryjane Low(1861-1932) and a paternity suit against him by Christian Low(1839) was accepted by the courts but it seems James had nothing to do with her because Maryjane was listed as staying with her Grandparents George(1804) and Ealenor(1807) Low in the 1861 and 1871 census. James married Mary Gordon(1836-1892) in Old Machar in Aberdeen 1862 and they had 8 children the first 4 were born in Aberdeen, William(1864), Maryanne(1868), Christina(1867) and Thomas(1869) the next 2 were born in Edinburgh, Louisa(1871) and John(1873) the last 2 James(1878) and Georgina(1879) were born in Rutherglen my family runs down through Williams line. I still think James left Fraserburgh with John Fraser to seek work in Edin. or he was avoiding the paternity suit whatever the reason he makes his way back to Aberdeen and settles down with Mary. An interesting point to note is the Rigbys have used Fraser as either a first name or a middle name in every generation in my tree right down to my son so James Rigby must of thought highly of his Grandparents James and Jean Fraser to continue using the Fraser name. I too cant get further back the Frasers than John Fraser and Isabella Henderson and don't have any info on either of the two. I cant get a hold of James Fraser Rigbys birth cert. but it is in the census as Ireland N.K. which I'm led to believe is not known, wheather this is not known if he was born in Ireland or not known where about in Ireland who knows. Another mystery is why his father and mother (Thomas and Anne) went over to Ireland (during the potato famine) for a few years had James then came back to Fraserburgh??? I'm still baffled by that one as I cant find any info at all about this. I do know that the Rigbys originally came from Brixworth and Pitsford in Northamptonshire and when my Rigbys were up in the 'Broch' there was another set of Rigbys living in Aberdeen (George Rigby a gunsmith) but these Rigbys are unrelated to ours. Any info gladly accepted and given out. cheers Fraser Rigby.
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Fraser, you are making all sorts of assumptions that you cannot justify from the facts you have.
Something that I have noticed is that depending on who writes down the info depends on how it is spelt, James fraser Rigbys marriage cert. gives his name as Regby!
Spelling wasn't fixed or 'correct' until about the early 20th century. Until then, any old method of spelling could be used and it's not unusual to find the name of one person spelled in different ways at different times on different documents. Sometimes, also, it is quite hard to decipher what the person intended to write.
James Fraser Rigby had a child Maryjane Low(1861-1932) and a paternity suit against him by Christian Low(1839) was accepted by the courts but it seems James had nothing to do with her because Maryjane was listed as staying with her Grandparents George(1804) and Ealenor(1807) Low in the 1861 and 1871 census.
If the court found that James was her father, then you can be pretty sure that he was. It was absolutely the norm for an illegitimate child to live with and be brought up by grandparents, most often the maternal grandparents. The fact that Maryjane was not living with her father tells you absolutely nothing about her parentage. Maybe James' wife refused to take on his illegitimate child, or maybe Maryjane's mother didn't want her to be handed over to a stepmother. You can never know the reason.
I still think James left Fraserburgh with John Fraser to seek work in Edin. or he was avoiding the paternity suit whatever the reason he makes his way back to Aberdeen and settles down with Mary.
Almost certainly for purposes of work.
In 1861 he was in Lerwick with a cousin, using his real name. In 1862 the court noted that he was in Edinburgh. Later that year he married in Aberdeen. If he was trying to do a runner, he made a pretty lame job of it!
An interesting point to note is the Rigbys have used Fraser as either a first name or a middle name in every generation in my tree right down to my son so James Rigby must of thought highly of his Grandparents James and Jean Fraser to continue using the Fraser name.
Giving a child a family surname as a middle name was pretty standard practice from the middle of the 19th century onwards. It's also fairly common for a child to acquire in later life a middle name that isn't on the baptism record or birth certificate.
I cant get a hold of James Fraser Rigbys birth cert. but it is in the census as Ireland N.K. which I'm led to believe is not known, wheather this is not known if he was born in Ireland or not known where about in Ireland who knows.
In 1841 his parents told the enumerator that James was born in Ireland.
Another mystery is why his father and mother (Thomas and Anne) went over to Ireland (during the potato famine) for a few years had James then came back to Fraserburgh???
the 1841 census lists them at Philorth House, Fraserburgh: Thomas Rigby, 20, male servant, born England; Ann Rigby, 20, born Aberdeenshire; James Rigby, 2, born Ireland. (there is also a Jean Rigby, aged 1, born Aberdeenshire, with James and Jean Fraser in High Street, Fraserburgh in 1841). So it looks as if they moved from Ireland to Fraserburgh between James' birth in 1838/9 and Jean's birth in 1839/40.
The 1851 lists James Rigby, grandson, aged 12, in Fraserburgh with James Fraser, 73, retired flesher, born Rathen and his wife Jean, 50, born Fraserburgh. (I would want to check Jean's age by checking the original of that 1851 census, as it it so much at odds with her being 60 in 1841. Or is she a different Jean altogether, a second wife of James Fraser?)
So I don't think there can be any doubt that James was born in Ireland in 1838/9.
The Irish potato famine started in 1845, so James was born well before the famine. Thomas might have gone to Ireland to work, or, just possibly, he might have been in the Army, which might explain why he moved around so much before finally settling in Moray.
The 1851 lists them at Darglans, Knockando, which is in Moray, about 10 miles south of Elgin: Thomas, 33, gamekeeper, born England; Wife Ann, 34, born Fraserburgh; children Ann, 9; Mary, 7; William, 6; Thomas, 4; and Lucy, 2, all born in Fraserburgh. So you know that they moved from Fraserburgh to Knockando between 1848/9 and 30 March 1851, and that if they did go to Ireland at any time during the famine, it must have been for a very short time.
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Forfarian if you have a connection to these Rigbys that means you have a links to the branches of three of my four grandparents is that a tad unusual?
Yes, I think so. A bit spooky, really.
Must do some work on your 4th grandparent :)
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Just want to add a couple of things...I don't think the John Fraser with James F Rigby in Orkney is a close relation to James. I followed John through and his parents were a John Fraser (plasterer) and Isabella Reid - this family can be found living on Ministers Lane, Aberdeen in 1851.
In 1861 I suspect the Low family living in one room at 5 Castle Street were in pretty desperate straits. The two nieces listed are the orphaned children of William McKay and Mary Wilson - I know this as they happen to be on the same page of the poor records as my Martha McKay. The head of the household was widowed and Christian Low the daughter had an illegitimate 14 day old daughter to look after on her income as a washerwoman. Hardly surprising money was sought from Mr Rigby.
George Low little Mary Jane's uncle is also a plasterer...in 1881 he and his family are back in Fraserburgh after a spell in the USA - hmm wonder where that was?
Forfarian, you'll have to do some work on my Grandpa Russell's side unlike my other three grandparents his relatives range across multiple counties - Perthshire, Angus, Kincardineshire and Aberdeenshire - probably multiple connections ;)
Jen
Edit:Followed George Low and family and it looks like they leave Scotland for the final time in 1885 on the Caspian sailing to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
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Forfarian you make some very valid points, I have to agree that a lot of information that I cant prove is just assumptions but sometimes an educated guess can get you through the brick walls, I know I said that Mary Jane Low might not of had anything to do with the Rigbys but why then would she be named as Maryjane Rigby on her husband George Tochers (1857-1920) death cert? If she kept the Rigby name rather than staying with Low did the law decide this or was it common for illegitimate children to take on their fathers name if proved? I don't know, which is why I will readily accept any info from other geneologists who do know. James Fraser Rigbys father Thomas was born in Northamptonshire in 1818 then he marries Anne Fraser in Fraserburgh in 1837, how does a 19yr old English lad get from Northamptonshire to Fraserburgh? we'll probably never know or am I wrong? does anyone know?
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I know I said that Mary Jane Low might not of had anything to do with the Rigbys but why then would she be named as Maryjane Rigby on her husband George Tochers (1857-1920) death cert?
That does suggest that whoever registered George Tocher's death knew that her father was James Rigby.
If she kept the Rigby name rather than staying with Low did the law decide this or was it common for illegitimate children to take on their fathers name if proved?
No, the law didn't decide which name she would use. It's not uncommon for illegitimate children to be known by both their father's and their mother's surname, and to be recorded with a different surname in different documents. Also, a child may be known by its father's surname even though there was never any documented proof.
I don't know, which is why I will readily accept any info from other geneologists who do know. James Fraser Rigbys father Thomas was born in Northamptonshire in 1818 then he marries Anne Fraser in Fraserburgh in 1837, how does a 19yr old English lad get from Northamptonshire to Fraserburgh? we'll probably never know or am I wrong? does anyone know?
That is certainly a bit of a mystery. Could he have come with parents who died before the 1841 census? Or could he have been in the Army? Did the then owners of Philorth own any estates in Northampstonshire? Sometimes the reason for someone moving is that they are employed by a big landowner who has an estate near where they were born, and the employer then offers them a job on another of their estates. Did the owners of Philorth own land in Ireland too?
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That is certainly a bit of a mystery. Could he have come with parents who died before the 1841 census? Or could he have been in the Army? Did the then owners of Philorth own any estates in Northampstonshire? Sometimes the reason for someone moving is that they are employed by a big landowner who has an estate near where they were born, and the employer then offers them a job on another of their estates. Did the owners of Philorth own land in Ireland too?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Philorth House is the family seat of the Frasers of Philorth. The incumbent at the time that Thomas Rigby was employed at Philorth was Alexander George Fraser, 17th Lord Saltoun (1785 - 1853). He was a general in the British Army and travelled extensively in that role - including fighting at Waterloo. Interestingly, he died in Rothes in 1853 - which isn't a million miles away from Knockando, where Thomas was working as a gamekeeper in 1851 - so perhaps the Frasers had a connection to the Knockando estate as well?
Ruth
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George Tochers death cert was signed by his son James Tocher, Maryjane used Rigby as a surname on her marriage cert as well, on her birth cert she was a Low because James was not named as the father it was signed(X) by her Aunt Sarah Mcleman who was present at the birth. James was however named as the father on Marys Wedding cert.
Thomas Rigby came to Scotland by himself he left all his family in pitsford (or Pisford as it was formaly known) William Rigby(1792-1847) James Fraser Rigbys grandfather worked as a head gardener at Sulby Hall in Northamptonshire which was owned by George Payne(1803-1878).
I contacted Flora Marjory Fraser 20th Lady Saltoun Chief of Clan Fraser and got a very nice reply from her regarding Philorth, it seems the Frasers sold Philorth before or around the time that Thomas was employed as a gamekeeper and it belonged to a family who ran tea clippers out of Aberdeen(The Frasers however bought back Philorth and still own it today). Maybe this family knew George Payne through his connection with horses and gambling?
Whilst a gamekeeper at Dunlugas Thomas Rigby with John Munro gamekeeper to Mr James McKay, Banff, were fined for trespass on Lord Fifes lands they were fined £1 with £4.10 expenses, given 3 days to pay(they couldn't) and were imprisoned for 10 months with hard labour. This was in December 1857.
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it seems the Frasers sold Philorth before or around the time that Thomas was employed as a gamekeeper and it belonged to a family who ran tea clippers out of Aberdeen(The Frasers however bought back Philorth and still own it today). Maybe this family knew George Payne through his connection with horses and gambling?
I had read somewhere that Philorth was sold in 1613; that it passed to Lord Aberdeen in 1775; that it was ruinous until bought in 1863 and restored by the shipbuilding Duthie family from Aberdeen, and finally bought back by Lord Saltoun in 1934.
In the period we are looking at, Philorth belonged to John Gordon, an illegitimate son of Lord Aberdeen.
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I think I need to spend some time with Christian Watt's account, some records I have on Philorth and the census data as not a lot seems to be adding up in my heid!
Jen