RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: clairec666 on Tuesday 05 January 16 15:43 GMT (UK)
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I'd love to hear people's stories about distinctive names that appear in their families, and whether you have found their origins.
I've found a girl called Providence, one called Jubilee (born in 1887), boys in seafaring families called Ocean and Seaman, and two boys (in different families) named Royal and Prince. Other names, such as Sackville, Wyndham and Seymour, look like they are taken from surnames.
Two of my ancestors had the first names Barnabas and Israel - while not unique, they were certainly unusual and the names were carried on for a few generations.
I have a some mysteries in my family though:
My great-grandmother's name was Dorothy Selman Oliver. You would imagine Selman could be her mother's maiden name, but it's not, or for the previous three generations. And it's not misread from Selma - it appears as Selman in the birth index, on her christening record and in the 1911 census. Her three brothers have the surnames Henry, William and James. So where did Selman come from?
My great-great-grandfather had a brother called Weymouth Nunn Moul. Nunn was his mother's maiden name, but I don't know where Weymouth came from! Obviously it's a town in Dorset, but the family lived in Essex, and his father was not a mariner.
My Frazer family often use the middle name Lovat/Lovett for their sons. There is a Scottish clan Fraser of Lovat... maybe they're connected, but my Frazers are in Worcestershire. The family also use Gilbert as a middle name long before it became popular as a first name.
Can anyone shed any light on my mysteries? Or just share your own stories of weird names!
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My 2xgt. aunt Annie had Hughes as one of her names.....not her mother's name... but tracing back her aunt had married well to a Mr. Hughes; I guess the family were hoping for a legacy in later life. Sadly Annie died aged just 15 months. :'(
Nanny Jan
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My tree doesn't have much in the way of interesting names, but my husband's has a few. There were a few generations with the first name Ranger, starting with his great-grandfather's brother. I don't know where that came from. It doesn't seem to be a family surname, but it made the family easier to find in the census.
There were also two males that seemed to be named after counties. One was named Westchester, which was the county the family was from in New York. He showed up as Chester sometimes. Another male, who I only learned of from a newspaper notice of his very early death, was named Cumberland. Cumberland's father was from Cumberland Co. in England.
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I named my son Morgan twenty years ago before I started my family history, only to find that was my great grandmothers maiden name
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I vote for one I've found - Caesar Augustus (born in Devon, not Rome).
Septimus was helpful - he encouraged me to look for an older brother who I didn't know about before.
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I'd love to hear people's stories about distinctive names that appear in their families, and whether you have found their origins.
Other names, such as Sackville, Wyndham and Seymour, look like they are taken from surnames.
Surnames as given names (not just middle names) were common for Victorians. My gt-grandfather Charles Kinder Liversidge was the son of Kinder L. who was himself the son of William L. and Hannah Kinder, from the Huddersfield area of Yorkshire. Wilkinson was a fairly common first name, and my wife (whose roots are mainly on Tyneside) has inherited the middle name Whitfield - not very girly! That comes from the Alston area, where it was both a common surname and first name. In fact there were some Whitfield Whitfields.
And of course there was Robinson Crusoe ....
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A few of mine I found were given middle names as recognition of friends of family or sponsors.
John Tordoff Gibbins was named after a Wesleyan preacher of the time John Tordoff. It is possible ( unproven as yet ) that he may have married the sister of JTGs mother.
The one I am having trouble reconciling - even looking back through the family as best I can. Henry Symington McKie Kirkpatrick. The McKie is fairly straightforward as it is his mothers surname. Yet I cant find a reason for the Symington
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My Mum's name was Jessie McMillan Mason McAughtrie, her sister, Mary Houston McAughtrie.
Her mum's (my Nan's) name was Elizabeth Walker BOYD Watson. Married Robert Houston McAughtrie.
So that set me up with my maternal ancestry very nicely -thank you Nanny! Further research found that those middle names are all those of my great etc etc etc maternal grandparents.
(She even had my Mum and Dad's birth and marriage certificates, her own and my Grandad's marriage cert, her parents marriage certificate, . That wee wooden box of treasures that was away in her top cupboard, is what inspired me to start the journey! Even better was the fact that they were all Scottish, so plenty of info got me off to an amazing start!
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Dowdeswell appears as middle name in my Pine's in Australia, and Luke Hogarth Henry, or variations of, crop up in different branches in England and NZ. The Dowdeswell was easy enough; it was my great grandfather's mother's maiden name. The Luke Hogarth Henry combination first appears with my 2x great grandfather, but where it originated I have no idea.
Even slightly less common first names can be a boon to tracing ancestors; I think every Jonathan and Benjamin Dowdeswell fits into my tree somewhere.
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I have a 1st cousin with (7 removes) ::) named.....
Greenwell Jude b 1778 named after his mother Alice Greenwell.
I have a 3 x g grandaunt named....
Philadelphia Duff b 1801 (Edinburgh)
I have no info. except her parents Alexander & Elizabeth Paterson (mother's m/s Anderson)
It would be great to know where the name came from ???
Annie
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Philadelphia was a city mentioned in the Bible, meaning "brotherly love" in Greek. Perhaps your ancestors were pious, Annie.
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On my wife's side, there is a Timewell Bentham, who was a grocer in Kent. I have seen connections between the Timewell family, and the Gregory family, who also connect with the Bentham's. There are also some Naval connections. Haven't pinpointed it yet though.
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Philadelphia was a city mentioned in the Bible, meaning "brotherly love" in Greek. Perhaps your ancestors were pious, Annie.
Pious ;D
I wouldn't think so, her siblings have everyday names, Alexander (2), Elizabeth, Jean, Margaret, Rachel, Janet (variation of Jean) & William ???
Annie
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Septimus was helpful - he encouraged me to look for an older brother who I didn't know about before.
A prominent Jones family in Victorian Liverpool named their last two daughters Octavia and Nina ... :-\
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Hopefully there were the requisite number of older siblings......
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I have a 3 x g grandaunt named....
Philadelphia Duff b 1801 (Edinburgh)
I have no info. except her parents Alexander & Elizabeth Paterson (mother's m/s Anderson)
It would be great to know where the name came from ???
Annie
I have a 4g grandmother named Delphy. She was christened Adelphia and after a lot of digging I discovered her father's oldest sister was Philadelphia. I was able convince myself that one of her daughters really did get on a wagon train to Utah in 1853 because said daughter named her own daughter Delphia. I have the impression that none of these people were literate hence the variations.
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My grandmother's sister and quite a few female cousins were named after boats connected to the family- including one given the middle name of Reliance (1903 America Cup winner) but in tracing the history of the yacht trying to confirm that her father was involved in the design I discovered that she was born before the name was officially chosen so looks like there's some basis in family story.
Their aunt had the fairly unusual name of Lurana which has been passed down in later generations.
Also Orinda used as a family name further back for several generations until it suddenly vanishes but the unusual name has helped connect lost branches of the family tree.
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I have several Chancellor Grahams, Attewell (also Ottewell) Postles and Farrer (one record shows it as Pharaoh) Wards in my tree. With such unusual names it is interesting to just do a general search without any dates or locations or indeed just search under the first name. This can produce connections which you might not have otherwise found.
William
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There are several Baron Beverleys in my family -- either both names used together or just one name given as a middle name -- coming from the maiden names of women who married into the family in the late 1700s or early 1800s
I recently made contact with a distant American branch of the family who still used "Beverl(e)y" as a family name now --without knowing where the name came from, just that it had been passed down through many generations
And then in another branch, theres the 6 generations of Francis Drake Waldron Wheaton from 1795 onwards!
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A friend was named by her naval father after his ship - "Hearty". It rather suited her, as she was a jolly, friendly person.
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A friend was named by her naval father after his ship - "Hearty". It rather suited her, as she was a jolly, friendly person.
I wonder if names like that rub off on people? I've found a girl named Happy in my family. I have no idea whether she was indeed happy.... And of course Patience was quite a popular girls name around the end of the 19th century.
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A friend was named by her naval father after his ship - "Hearty". It rather suited her, as she was a jolly, friendly person.
I have a Polyphemus Ann MARTIN in my tree. She was born in 1881 when the family lived in Rochest, I believe there was ship called Polyphemus being built in Chatham dockyard at the time.
Jebber
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I wonder if names like that rub off on people? I've found a girl named Happy in my family. I have no idea whether she was indeed happy.... And of course Patience was quite a popular girls name around the end of the 19th century.
And of course there was Prudence .... not sure whether Patience or Prudence was preferable, or appropriate.
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My OH's father and sister both had the middle name MARSDEN and claimed not to have any idea why - they had asked, but been given a reply that it was none of their business. Or so his father said.
But it transpired that MARSDEN was the name under which their father (OH's grandfather) had been brought up, as his mother had married a Mr Marsden after his birth, and had another son, so the family name had become Marsden. He only changed it after enlisting in WWI, not quite sure why, perhaps it was at this point that his birth certificate emerged or his 'step'father told him he wasn't truly his next-of-kin. He then kept his birth name afterwards, and the whole family is called by it.
I discovered that the 'illegitimate' birth had taken place at the address where the future stepfather lived, and so there must be at least some question as to whether the stepfather was actually the biological father.
But what I've never been able to rationalise is that OH's father and aunt never realised that the mysterious MARSDEN name was actually their father's parents' married name.
Sadly I only discovered this after the death of OH's father so was never able to ask him about it - though OH's mother seemed very surprised at my findings.
Families, and the secrets they keep, eh?
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My middle name is a family surname, passed down intact since 1904 when my great grandfather was named after his maternal great-uncle, surname and all.
It was one of the things that got me interested in family history in the first place. It's now my youngest son's middle name.
There was also a family story that we were related to a famous person with that surname - which turned out to be complete nonsense.
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My middle name is a family surname, passed down intact since 1904 when my great grandfather was named after his maternal great-uncle, surname and all.
My father James' middle name - Cresser - was a mystery in our family until my recent researches found it had been my gt-gt-gt-grandmother's surname, married in 1804 in Prestbury, Glos. My father was at least the fourth descendant to be given it.
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I have a Clementia in my extended tree. I think she might have been named after a grandmother but I haven't been able to prove it yet.
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I have often wondered why my dad was christened Idris. In the year in which he was born there were more than 100 registered names of Idris , most of which were in South Wales. Born in 1908 in Midsomer Norton in Somerset, there were no family links with Wales as far as I can ascertain, and certainly none of his predecssors in the various families had the name so why would his parents have given him that name?
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My great-great-grandparents George Train (b. South Shields, 1840) and Isabella Johnson (b. Newcastle, 1842) named one of their children Charles Bailey Train (b. Seaham Harbour, 1870). His brother, my great-grandfather, Samuel Train (b. Hartlepool, 1883) also named one of his children Charles Bailey Train. The middle name Bailey does not appear to come down through the Train line (pun intended!), so I think it must be related to Isabella Johnson's family. The main problem is that the 1851 census shows her siblings' names and the father's name, Thomas Johnson (b. Heworth, Durham, 1811), but no mother's name. In the 1861 census, Thomas Johnson has a new wife. So, I'm still searching for this mysterious person named Bailey!
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My other mystery about family names is why my grandmother, her sister and her brother all named their first child "Trevor Douglas"
The Trevor we can account for, as it was the middle name of the brother - and the name he was known by in the family.
But we cannot account for the Douglas at all -- no other instances of Douglas either as a forename or surname anywhere in the family
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I wasn't relishing tracing my mothers family as we thought they were from Ireland but they were easy with bible names like Hamutol, Solomon & Darius. Turned out that when Great grandad & his brothers were drunk & carousing Great grannie would remark
The Staffordshire Irish!!
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Just blundered into the wonderful name of Ezekiel Athanasius Rouse... had to share!
Great-grandfather was an admirer of Robert Cobden, both of them being strong Liberals. My great-uncle was born on the day of Cobden's death and was named Robert John Richard Cobden Simons.
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Today I discovered a prospective Gt.gt.Aunt...Titsey Caractacus Allen.
She became Prescott in time for her baptism, when her mother married.
She herself later married and became.......Titsey Caractacus Crapps ;D
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Today I discovered a prospective Gt.gt.Aunt...Titsey Caractacus Allen.
She became Prescott in time for her baptism, when her mother married.
She herself later married and became.......Titsey Caractacus Crapps ;D
You couldn't make it up!
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I think it would make a wonderful new verse in
"The Ladies of the Harem of the Court of King Caractacus"! ;D
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Have had a giggle at some of the names I must admit.
However, as we do in this era, I guess chosen names were of people the parents admired whether on the "Wireless"...no tv then or signifigant people.
My daughter's name has no bearing on any family at all.
Her name name was chosen from........
A friend of mine at the time, her partner was cheating on her.....she told me the girls name & it was beautiful (her name wasn't beautiful) ;D but I told my friend if I ever had a daughter that is what I would call her.
Yes, I did have my daughter a couple of yrs later & called my workplace to tell them the news.
My friend then informed them what my daughter would be called & no-one could understand why she knew......she hadn't told them of the reason (out of embarrasment) but everyone was surprised as my daughter's name is somewhat unusual for the period although I have heard/seen it since but not with the same spelling ;D
Annie
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This thread got me thinking, so I conducted some random searches on FreeBMD. Just in the interests of our discussion of course... ::)
There was a surprising number of Merlin's born, even up to the "modern" era. I think it was the June quarter of 1909 that holds the record for the most Merlin's registered in the same quarter. This individual caught my eye; can anyone lay claim to him?
Merlin Charles Henry James Prior Croker Dunn, Sep quarter 1851, Williton 10, 508.
Emrys maxxed out in the number of entries.
5 Lucifers was very surprising.
And 31 Nebuchadnezzar's to round out my random searches.
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My little granddaughter has the unfortunate middle name of Isis. She was named not after the Egyptian goddess but after a song by Bob Dylan (father is a music buff). They are now considering changing the name to something less controversial.
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My little granddaughter has the unfortunate middle name of Isis. She was named not after the Egyptian goddess but after a song by Bob Dylan (father is a music buff). They are now considering changing the name to something less controversial.
What a pity that would be. The Thames in Oxford is called the Isis and the name has a lot of history ahead of its current use as an acronym. And of course there is a movement to rename the terrorist organisation Daesh, which may take hold.
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The terror organization seems to go by several names; Isis I think is the one mostly used by the Western media. Isil is the name they seem to use themselves.
The name Isis does have a long history, as IgorStrav suggested. Originally the personification of the Feminine Creation, along with Ishtar. Personally, I think it is a nice name for a girl.
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My little granddaughter has the unfortunate middle name of Isis. She was named not after the Egyptian goddess but after a song by Bob Dylan (father is a music buff). They are now considering changing the name to something less controversial.
Hi,
I must be a bit slow today as I did not automatically think of the terror group until I saw the next replies. I thought "why is her name unfortunate? Its such a beautiful name!"
Personally I wouldn't change it. I don't use my middle name to friends and colleagues . I doubt if anyone except my family knows my middle name. I only use it on official forms when I fill out my full name( it's not that I don't like my name - it's just that I don't tend to use it) - I don't know most of my friends middle names either. My son has a few middle names, his classmates don't know his either, they only know him by his first Christian name.
Isis really is such a pretty name for a girl.
On a side note though, there is a business here in qld bearing the same name who is changing it http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gt1/ but that's a bit different.
Kind Regards :)
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Hi,
My 3x great-grandparents were creative, some of their offspring are:
Asenath Amelia
Uriel Oswin
Rodelinda Rowena
Allette Lovinia
so they are easy to track.
My favourite name that I've found while looking through old parish registers is Theophilus Sodhunter. Wish he was in my family... :)
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Today I discovered a prospective Gt.gt.Aunt...Titsey Caractacus Allen.
She became Prescott in time for her baptism, when her mother married.
She herself later married and became.......Titsey Caractacus Crapps ;D
Well that's beaten any funny names in my family, hands down. I had a good titter at Fanny Titman, but I reckon Titsey Caractacus Crapps beats them all! ;D
My favourite name that I've found while looking through old parish registers is Theophilus Sodhunter. Wish he was in my family... :)
Me too!
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My favourite name that I've found while looking through old parish registers is Theophilus Sodhunter. Wish he was in my family... :)
Was that really Sodhunter, not a mutation of Todhunter (tod meaning fox) ?
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I have a distant relative called Fanny Brain. Imagine the taunts she would get at school if that was now.
I have some in Suffolk who were given mothers maiden names as first names for their children. Such as Newman Jacques. I know maiden surnames as middle names for children were common but I found they were more prevalent in Essex. Mary Newman Smith and Anne Barker Jarvis are 2 of my ancestors. Their mmn's were Smith and barker respectively.
The most unique name is my 2xgreat gran Gertrude Georgeanna Wallaker. She married someone with one of the commonest surnames around.
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I have a distant relative called Fanny Brain. Imagine the taunts she would get at school if that was now.
I found a distant relative called Fanny Shutt. I'll say no more.
Quick tip: If you've got a distinctive surname in your family, try searching for it as a first name on Ancestry/Findmypast/Familysearch etc. and see what it throws up.
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I have a distant relative called Fanny Brain. Imagine the taunts she would get at school if that was now.
I found a distant relative called Fanny Shutt. I'll say no more.
Fanny Prime !
Quick tip: If you've got a distinctive surname in your family, try sticking for it as a first name on Ancestry/Findmypast/Familysearch etc. and see what it throws up.
My favourite surname-used-as-first-name combo I've found is a Lightowlers Stainthorp. Unfortunately not a relative as far as I can tell (so far). Lightowlers ;D
There seems to be a lot of that sort of thing in the north-east, cf Robson Golightly Green (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robson_Green). Three surnames for the price of one.
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My favourite name that I've found while looking through old parish registers is Theophilus Sodhunter. Wish he was in my family... :)
Was that really Sodhunter, not a mutation of Todhunter (tod meaning fox) ?
Was a while ago and it just stuck in my memory...didn't copy it so can't even remember the parish...
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In the family line I am following at the moment, I have just unearthed a Hamish Hustler Howard Coates. Thought I should share that one. ;D
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Distinctive names certainly helped me with my Hardwick lines.
My grandfather was Charles Whitney Hardwick, my uncle Peter John Whitney Hardwick; my great grandfather Frank Whitney Hardwick. Frank's mother Was Emma Hardwick nee Wiles ... but HER mother's maiden name was Whitney.
However, it was my great grandmother Hardwick (Frank's wife) that distinctive names REALLY helped to crack.
I had the marriage certificate ... Frank Whitney Hardwick married Myrah Cass Stephenson in Trumpington (just outside Cambridge) in 1905. Families from Trumpington and Newmarket. But could I find a birth for Myrah (or Myra) Cass Stephenson? Or Myrah (or Myra) C Stephenson? Or just plain Myrah (or Myra) Stephenson?
Not a chance.
What about a Stephenson child who was not names until after registration?
Nope, still nothing.
Eventually, in despair, I searched for "Myrah Cass" with no family name given ... and BINGO! Out it popped. Only one in the ENTIRE database ... Myrah Cass S Holcombe ... born in the right year, but in South East London.
I had a small wager with myself that the S was for Stephenson ... and when the birth certificate came ... I was right.
The story soon fell into place. Myrah's mother Emily Holcombe was the daughter of an ex-soldier who worked on the railways and then had a beer house in the East End of London. He died at the age of 39. Emily's mother tried to run the beer house for a little while, then gave it up and moved back to her home village of Exning, just outside Newmarket. She went into service, and Emily and her sister were sent to live with their grandparents - Ambrose and Sarah Frost at the White Swan in Exning, in Emily's case, and Anthony and Martha Holcombe in Chippenham (another village just outside Newmarket) in her sister's case.
Ambrose and Sarah Frost died, and Emily then went to live with her Holcombe grandparents and her sister. Martha Holcombe died, but Anthony soldiered on (until he was 98 - which isn't a bad age to reach in the 19th century!).
Emily worked in a bar ... and then she went to South East London where she worked in another bar, and had a daughter who was named Myrah Cass Stephenson Holcombe. Do father named on the birth certificate. But soon after, she married Charles James Christopher Stephenson, the son of a Newmarket baker, in Hendon. (I've still not quite figured out what the Hendon connection is ... ) I have little doubt that Charles Stephenson was in fact Myrah's father.
They then returned to Newmarket, where they went into business as publicans and bakers, and quietly dropped Myrah's original surname Holcombe. And - here's the really cunning thing - if anybody questioned Myrah's legitimacy they could, if necessary, swear on oath that she had ALWAYS been named Myrah Cass Stephenson. (That is the truth and nothing but the truth ... but not, evidently, the whole truth ... )
My mother was more than a little stunned to learn that her grandmother had been illegitimate ... but there's no doubt whatever ... and I have to say, it is a rather nice human-interest story with a happy ending.
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Another one to throw into the mix, of special interest to people with Essex ancestors....
On Familysearch I came across the marriage in Steeple, Essex between Hannah Laver and Little Wakering. "Uh-oh", I thought, "somebody's transcribed the name of the parish instead of the name of the groom." (Little Wakering is a nearby village). Looked at the image. He is actually called Little Wakering.
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Another one to throw into the mix, of special interest to people with Essex ancestors....
On Familysearch I came across the marriage in Steeple, Essex between Hannah Laver and Little Wakering. "Uh-oh", I thought, "somebody's transcribed the name of the parish instead of the name of the groom." (Little Wakering is a nearby village). Looked at the image. He is actually called Little Wakering.
Brother called Big Wakering? ;)
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I know someone with first name Mark, second name Anthony.
I wonder if there are any inventors who have named their sons Mark One, Mark Two etc?
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I know someone with first name Mark, second name Anthony.
I wonder if there are any inventors who have named their sons Mark One, Mark Two etc?
Just as long as they didn't name one Beta! ;D ;D
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In my husbands line (Holborow), there are several generations, male and female who have the name Wrexell / Wrexall / Wraxal and many variations of the spelling, as either their first or middle name. I have been told it relates to a town. So far I have not found anything to confirm this. If anyone has anything to share on this, please let me know.
Cheers
MrsWheelie
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Could it be Wrexham in North Wales, do you think?
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Another one to throw into the mix, of special interest to people with Essex ancestors....
On Familysearch I came across the marriage in Steeple, Essex between Hannah Laver and Little Wakering. "Uh-oh", I thought, "somebody's transcribed the name of the parish instead of the name of the groom." (Little Wakering is a nearby village). Looked at the image. He is actually called Little Wakering.
Brother called Big Wakering? ;)
More likely Great Wakering, another nearby village. ;D
I'm curious about this guy now, especially what he named his children (Little Little Wakering?) but I can't find any trace of him. Maybe it was just a nickname...
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In my husbands line (Holborow), there are several generations, male and female who have the name Wrexell / Wrexall / Wraxal and many variations of the spelling, as either their first or middle name. I have been told it relates to a town. So far I have not found anything to confirm this. If anyone has anything to share on this, please let me know.
You have several choices. My 1936 gazetteer offers 3 Wraxalls (one in Dorset, two in Somerset) and a pair of Wraxhalls in Wiltshire. There is also a Wroxall in Warwickshire and another on the Isle of Wight. Allowing for other mutations there may be more ... :)
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I have an ancestor who has Griffin as a Christian name from 1719. Very interesting indeed!
According to this description, which is for a surname - but I doubt the meaning is any different if used as a Christian name.
"c. 1200 (as a surname), from Old French grifon "a bird of prey," also "fabulous bird of Greek mythology" (with head and wings of an eagle, body and hind quarters of a lion, believed to inhabit Scythia and guard its gold), named for its hooked beak, from Late Latin gryphus, misspelling of grypus, variant of gryps (genitive grypos) "griffin," from Greek gryps (genitive grypos) "a griffin or dragon," literally "curved, hook-nosed" (opposed to simos).
Klein suggests a Semitic source, "through the medium of the Hittites," and cites Hebrew kerubh "a winged angel," Akkadian karibu, epithet of the bull-colossus (see cherub). The same or an identical word was used in mid-19c. Louisiana to mean "mulatto" (especially one one-quarter or two-fifths white) and in British India from 1793 to mean "newly arrived European," probably via notion of "strange hybrid animal."
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Thanks
ScouseBoy
Could it be Wrexham in North Wales, do you think?
Andrew Tarr
You have several choices. My 1936 gazetteer offers 3 Wraxalls (one in Dorset, two in Somerset) and a pair of Wraxhalls in Wiltshire. There is also a Wroxall in Warwickshire and another on the Isle of Wight. Allowing for other mutations there may be more
I will add this to my family information. Something may come along to confirm the origins. I don't know a lot about the counties, regions in England, so I will have a look at a map and see if any of the places you mention look like they might fit.
Cheers
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I will add this to my family information. Something may come along to confirm the origins. I don't know a lot about the counties, regions in England, so I will have a look at a map and see if any of the places you mention look like they might fit.
The most northerly Wroxall is in the midlands - all the rest are south of the London-Bristol line (the M4). As a middle name it is probably an inherited surname, which would itself probably show that an earlier owner migrated from one of those villages - a long time back.
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Thanks Andrew.
I presumed it was a surname at some stage. I haven't yet found the generation that this might have occurred. I will keep looking though.
Cheers
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My Marsh family seem to have liked unusual names. Joseph Haydn Marsh had a nephew of the same name, a younger brother Handel Marsh and a cousin called Ellen Mulvino Marsh, whose niece was in turn given the same moniker.
Mother's and grandmother's maiden names used as middle names abound. Even my cousin was given one.
So too do surnames used as first names. I have a "Bullough Bullough", not to be confused with my ggg grandmother, who in 1861 was enumerated as "Bellow Bullough"! Her real first name was "Arabella", but she used just the last two syllables.
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I have in my tree, Aminadab Spivey! His brother's names were Barzalli, Hezekiah and Theophilus.
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My Marsh family seem to have liked unusual names. Joseph Haydn Marsh had a nephew of the same name, a younger brother Handel Marsh and a cousin called Ellen Mulvino Marsh, whose niece was in turn given the same moniker.
With those musical references, maybe they were related to the English composer John Marsh (1752-1828) ?
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I came across one yesterday ( not mine) who had a middle name Christ. I haven't seen that one before.
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I used to think that was my first name for a while
"Christ you're useless''
"Christ you're thick''
:D
It may well have been an abbreviation of Christopher
(I too agree the musical names indicate a relationship to a musician or someone close to the music scene)
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Hi
We have a relative born to James and Sarah Smith around 1817-20. His name is Poyarder Smith and he and other family members were all christened at St Margaret Lothbury London. The only other mention I have of him is in an. 1851 census. Has anyone any idea what this name could mean ? Orkrad.
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Unusual names might help future genealogists, too. I think we've all despaired at sorting out a couple like William and Mary Evans from somewhere in South Wales! Modern unusual names seem often to be newly-minted.
As a bit of entertainment, use Ancestry's birth index for England and Wales, choose birth date 1995 +- 10 years, leave surname blank, type in just about any three letters in "first and middle names" box, and see what comes up!
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Hi
We have a relative born to James and Sarah Smith around 1817-20. His name is Poyarder Smith and he and other family members were all christened at St Margaret Lothbury London. The only other mention I have of him is in an. 1851 census. Has anyone any idea what this name could mean ? Orkrad.
Hi Orkrad,
familysearch have him as Poynder.....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gwa/
Could this possibly be a m/s of Sarah/mother/grandmother although possible variations on the spelling ???
Annie
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Thanks Annie. I think there are all kinds of possibilities here!. He is listed as Poyander Smith in the church baptismal records and again in the 1851 census for England. As for the family mis spelling the name I don't think that is likely. His dad was a London lawyer who practised in a well heeled area. The family had another child they called Frederick Bissextile Smith. The bissextile part refers to the fact that he was born on February 29. I think they just liked fancy names ! I would still like to know what Poynder/Poyander/ Poyarder means .
Regards Orkrad
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Hi Orkrad,
Spellings are always being transcribed wrongly although the baptism has him how it's thought meant to be....that can differ on other docs as names were written how they sounded.
Have you found the m/surnames of his ancestors. Could even be as simple as Poinder or similar as the accents of people can make words sound different too.
Annie
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.... I would still like to know what Poynder/Poyander/ Poyarder means .
Regards Orkrad
I don't know what it means, but I do know someone called Pounder, which is pretty close. Many surnames exist in all sorts of mutations, some almost unrecognisable - for example the golfer Ian Woosnam (=Wolstenholme), the MP Brokenshire (=Birkenshaw) and the strange-looking Smurfit (=Smirthwaite). It may be no coincidence that all these are places in Yorkshire ;)
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Greetings from NZ
Thanks Annie. Unfortunately the lad with the strange name comes from a family named Smith! I have only been able to trace this family as far back as the father James Smith who was a lawyer who worked in London from early 1800's. I have been unable to trace his wife's maiden name as she is only listed as Sarah on all the birth and baptism registers. Her death notice in the London Times records her as Sarah Smith .I think James and Sarah married around 1807/8 but where is not known. Their first born child was named James Fitch Smith and after his death a subsequent child was also given the same name . In total they had at least seven children all born around Tokenhouse Yard or Austinfriers London. I was hoping the Poyarder/Poinder/ Poyder might just be a clue to finding his mothers family. Regards Orkrad.
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I have a Pancas/Pancras/Pancoust in my direct descendants name.
Most say Pancas , wills and newspaper notices , but the odd thing is his grandmother has a last name Pancoust. So I wonder if it is a misspelling at birth or deliberate?
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With those musical references, maybe they were related to the English composer John Marsh (1752-1828) ?
I'm pretty sure the musical references were to do with membership of the colliery's brass band. No idea where Mulvino arrived from though. The only reference to the name in the UK appears to be in Scottish romantic poetry. It's certainly not someone's maiden name!
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If it helps, I think Mulvino/Malvino/Melvino are Italian names, (also places)!
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I came across that name with a man with the same surname as one of those I am researching. He married a woman with Malvino as a middle name; I never followed it up as it had no connection to me, but I think he married her overseas.
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It seems to me that "Poynder", if encountered in a lawyer's children, is almost surely intended to be "Poinder" ... referencing the legal process of poinding. Wiki, as ever, explains it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinding
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My grandmother had a child with the middle name Moren. My mother once mentioned Irish connections, and someone else told me that a spurious middle name, in an otherwise legitimate looking child, might indicate that the named father was not actually the father. The child died. Moren appears to be an Irish surname and there are no Irish connections otherwise.
Without DNA, the only ancestry that you can really be sure of is the female line!
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A similar thing happened on a collateral branch of the family. The husband/father died in early 1885, and his widow gave birth almost 18 months later to a son. Given the family surname, and even a very distinctive family middle name, this boy grew up looking nothing like the rest of the family, judging by photos. He ended up killed in action in 1917 on the Western Front. Without sounding too harsh, it was probably a blessing, to not have to explain to descendants his origin. I ended up buying the birth certificate to be sure; no father named.
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The saddest forenames?
Births Mar 1861
COLVILL Not Wanted James Lambeth 1d 312
Deaths Jun 1861
Colvill Not Wanted James St George S 1d 111
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The saddest forenames?
Births Mar 1861
COLVILL Not Wanted James Lambeth 1d 312
Deaths Jun 1861
Colvill Not Wanted James St George S 1d 111
:( :(
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Not quite sure what to make of this entry on familysearch, Thistle Never No More T Goldsmith b1888 in Suffolk, just a pity he wasn't the Goldsmith I was looking for. :D
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The saddest forenames?
Births Mar 1861
COLVILL Not Wanted James Lambeth 1d 312
Deaths Jun 1861
Colvill Not Wanted James St George S 1d 111
That is indeed sad. Poor little James.
On a slightly different note, it's interesting to see children being named after heroes of the time. There were barely any children named Baden up until the 4th quarter of 1899, most had the middle name Powell.
I've always been surprised that Victoria didn't take off as a popular name early in Queen Victoria's reign... it seems to become more popular later in the 19th century, but still isn't one of the top ranking names of the time.
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On a slightly different note, it's interesting to see children being named after heroes of the time. There were barely any children named Baden up until the 4th quarter of 1899, most had the middle name Powell.
I've always been surprised that Victoria didn't take off as a popular name early in Queen Victoria's reign... it seems to become more popular later in the 19th century, but still isn't one of the top ranking names of the time.
My great grandmother (1865, Kent) was named Victoria Adelaide, and was evidently called Adelaide as she appears in one census as 'Delie' and another as Adelaide, but ended in her last couple of censuses as Victoria.
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It took me ages to find the origins of my 3xgreat grandfather Thomas Roberts, as he gave different parishes of birth in Kent in 1871 and 1881 and his age fluctuated. But he called one of his children the middle name Goodacre in 1868 in Bow, London. I then typed Goodacre Roberts into Anc and found a Frederick Goodacre Roberts birth in 1860 in Brighton. I had previously found a Thomas Roberts in Brighton who I thought was mine. I sent off for the cert and he was the son of that Thomas Roberts who was a servant and army pensioner. I then got the army records and it matched the signature of his marriage to his 3rd wife who I descend from. A distinctive middle name is good, Thomas mum was a Goodacre before she wed his dad.
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Not sure if I mentioned this already on this thread, but I have several Horatio Nelson Pine's on my tree. In my wife's there is a Dardanella, born in 1915.
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Not sure if I mentioned this already on this thread, but I have several Horatio Nelson Pine's on my tree. In my wife's there is a Dardanella, born in 1915.
Guessing she wasn't a Lone Pine either?
:D
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The first joy of an unusual forename [in these days of powerful computers], is to be able to search by forename only.
So I found my great uncle's 1921 marriage by searching for the forename MELGUND and then onto the 1881, 1891, 1901 census even with the spelling errors, but failed to find his civil birth registration.
I did find the Catholic baptism as Melgund Robert Anstruther BENNETT in Hanwell 02/11/1877 original register. Well BENNETT was not the surname of my mother's family but all his siblings were there with a new surname., Eventually found the civil registration after purchasing many possible certificates, as:
Births Sep 1876
BENNETT Robert Herbert Brentford 3a 101
What happened to that nice unusual forename between the registrar and the Church baptism one year later!
In later life perhaps he just got fed-up with having to spell it out his name to his work mates and to endure their mocking.
He later called himself George Willson ANDERSON 1919 electoral roll and finally died 1944 as George ANSTRUTHER in Oxford where he ran a working mens cafe.
I think that some families are always fiddling with their names and not just forenames! Clearly, Catholic shame or guilt might have something to do with the desire to hide or obscure aspects of the family history, but it does make for years of head scratching and ongoing brickwalls.
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Not sure if I mentioned this already on this thread, but I have several Horatio Nelson Pine's on my tree. In my wife's there is a Dardanella, born in 1915.
Guessing she wasn't a Lone Pine either?
:D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Distinctive names are all well and good ... as long as they stick to them!!!
One of my most problematic great great grandfathers is Thomas King Spooner. A nice easy name, you'd have thought ... but ... well!
I've still to invest in all the certificates to prove it, but I THINK I've puzzled him out.
Born: Thomas Escott Scott Spooner, Clerkenwell, 1857, only child of Edgar Spooner (a tailor) and his second wife Elizabeth Spooner (nee Escott). He had an older half sister called Mary Spooner, and a second older half sister called Louisa Mary King Spooner had died before he was born.
Elizabeth Spooner died between 1857 and 1863. Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate the family in the 1861 census, so I cannot say if this was before or after the census date.
Edgar Spooner adopted the name King, calling himself Edgar Spooner King, and then simply Edgar King. Thomas Escott Scott Spooner also appears to have adopted the name King, becoming (for now) simply Thomas King.
Edgar Spooner King married Eliza Wright in 1863, and they had three children, called Eve, Adam and John.
By the time of the 1871 census, Thomas King had left home and was an errand boy in the household of John Jacob Schafer at Coningham Terrace, Hammersmith (RG10 Piece 63 Folio 125 page 25).
[Edgar Spooner appears in the 1871 census as Edgar King, living with his wife Eliza and children Adam and Eve (John was not born until about 1873) in Artillery Lane, Bishopsgate, City of London (RG10 Piece 416 Folio 19 page 31); Eliza died between 1873 and 1877, and Edgar was married for a fourth time - reverting to the name Edgar Spooner - to Mary Ann Benge in Wandsworth in 1877. Mary Ann Spooner died in Lambeth in 1878, and in the 1881 census Edgar King is shown living at 5 Fanshaw Street, Shoreditch with his 8 year old son John (RG11 Piece 394 Folio 113 page 56). I do not have Edgar in any later censuses, but neither have I found his death.]
On 2 April 1879 Thomas King Spooner married Harriet Martindale at St Mary Hoxton, Middlesex.
In the 1881 census they appear as Thos and Harriet Spooner, living at 19 Buckingham High Street, Islington (RG11 Piece 231 Folio 11 page 19).
They have children Frances Mary K Spooner (1884), Augustine John K Spooner (1886), Joseph King Spooner (born and died 1888), Kathleen Honora Spooner (born 9 February 1890).
In the 1891 Census they are listed at 166 Brady Street Dwellings, Brady Street, Whitechapel as Thomas K Spooner and Harriet Spooner, with children Frances, Augustine and Kathleen (RG12 Piece 279 Folio 28 page 28)
They have a further three children: Mildred King Spooner (born 1892, died 1894); Thomas King Spooner (born 1894); Harriet King Spooner (born 1897)
The 1901 census shows Thomas King Spooner, Harriett Spooner and their five surviving children at 13 High Street, Stratford Riverside, West Ham (RG13 Piece 1562 Folio 18 page 27)
Harriet Spooner died in 1905.
In the 1911 census, Thomas King Spooner and his son Thomas King Spooner are listed at 83 Diggon Street, Stepney (RG14PN1591 RG78PN56 RD21 SD1 ED20 SN185)
His daughter whose name at birth was registered as Kathleen Honora Spooner (no King: this is my great grandmother and I have her birth certificate - DEFINITELY no King) married in 1912. Her name on the marriage certificate is recorded as Kathleen Honora King Spooner.
I have not found Thomas King Spooner's death ... unless he is Thomas Spooner, 75, who died in the Tendring registration district in 1932 (obtaining this death certificate is high on my list of research priorities).
Now come ON guys ... if you're born with a name which is as helpful to future genealogists as Thomas Escott Scott Spooner ... for pity's sake MAKE USE OF IT!!!!!
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Distinctive names are all well and good ... as long as they stick to them!!!
True! If only they knew....
I think when illegitimacy is involved and the father's surname is used as a middle name, the names get switched around (perhaps when the parents marry?) or disappear altogether.
I have a Rawlings family in my tree, the children were registered in their mother's name (Richardson) with Rawlings as a middle name. The parents eventually married, and most of the children switched to Rawlings as their surname, some of them used Richardson as their middle name in honour of their original surname, while some use the name they were born with.
A confusing lot!
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My tree is very full of Mary, Margaret, Agnes, David, Robert and Williams. I did laugh though when a grt grt aunt who emigrated to the States married a man called Jackson who's parent had given the middle name Stonewall.
My name mystery was my grandfather David Woodburn Campbell as Woodburn wasn't his mum's maiden name. I then found out that his grandfather was called David Woodburn Campbell but his mother wasn't a Woodburn either and I in 15 years of searching I hadn't found any Woodburns in the tree. I couldn't find any Woodburns withing a 50mile radius of where David senior was from either. Then I had a break through in Church records. Mr Campbell died 18months before David senior was born so couldn't be the father and the reputed father was David Woodburn who had temporarily been based at the local fort with the army, gave me a whole different line to trace.
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I have a 1st cousin with (7 removes) ::) named.....
Greenwell Jude b 1778 named after his mother Alice Greenwell.
I have a 3 x g grandaunt named....
Philadelphia Duff b 1801 (Edinburgh)
I now have a new addition with a name that beats both.....Zion!!! ;D
Annie
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One of my 3x great grandfather's (pictured in my avatar) many siblings was a Healy Thomas Knighton. I thought the name was unusual, and as I traced the family back a generation further, I discovered that their aunt Ruth Knighton had a son called Healy Thomas Cunnington.
But tracing back through further generations found no other instance of the name "Healy Thomas".
Healy Thomas Knighton had a son, Samuel Healy, who died in World War I but not before having a son Healy Raymond, and the name was passed down to the present day.
Later on I found Aunt Ruth in the 1851 Census as a young woman working in domestic service for a Healy Thomas Chapman. This solved the mystery of where the name came from! Mr. Chapman must have become a family friend for the name to be used not only by Ruth but by my 4x great grandfather Samuel.
I took a look at Healy Thomas Chapman's ancestry and it appears throughout multiple generations of his family. I still haven't discovered where the "Healy" first originated!
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I have a "Servetus"! The name doesn't appear again or previously, as far as I can see. His brothers have the more usual names, William, Henry etc.
Lancs-Lassie
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One of my 3x great grandfather's (pictured in my avatar) many siblings was a Healy Thomas Knighton. I thought the name was unusual, and as I traced the family back a generation further, I discovered that their aunt Ruth Knighton had a son called Healy Thomas Cunnington.
But tracing back through further generations found no other instance of the name "Healy Thomas".
Healy Thomas Knighton had a son, Samuel Healy, who died in World War I but not before having a son Healy Raymond, and the name was passed down to the present day.
Later on I found Aunt Ruth in the 1851 Census as a young woman working in domestic service for a Healy Thomas Chapman. This solved the mystery of where the name came from! Mr. Chapman must have become a family friend for the name to be used not only by Ruth but by my 4x great grandfather Samuel.
I took a look at Healy Thomas Chapman's ancestry and it appears throughout multiple generations of his family. I still haven't discovered where the "Healy" first originated!
I touched on it on the first page of this thread, but I have the same issue with my 2x great grandfather, Luke Hogard Henry Pine. The name (or combination) seems to have appeared out of the blue, but has been passed down in various combinations through the generations. One possible line of thought is Luke's mother's family were non-conformists. Maybe someone known to the family in those circles?
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One of my 3x great grandfather's (pictured in my avatar) many siblings was a Healy Thomas Knighton. I thought the name was unusual, and as I traced the family back a generation further, I discovered that their aunt Ruth Knighton had a son called Healy Thomas Cunnington.
But tracing back through further generations found no other instance of the name "Healy Thomas".
Healy Thomas Knighton had a son, Samuel Healy, who died in World War I but not before having a son Healy Raymond, and the name was passed down to the present day.
Later on I found Aunt Ruth in the 1851 Census as a young woman working in domestic service for a Healy Thomas Chapman. This solved the mystery of where the name came from! Mr. Chapman must have become a family friend for the name to be used not only by Ruth but by my 4x great grandfather Samuel.
I took a look at Healy Thomas Chapman's ancestry and it appears throughout multiple generations of his family. I still haven't discovered where the "Healy" first originated!
I touched on it on the first page of this thread, but I have the same issue with my 2x great grandfather, Luke Hogard Henry Pine. The name (or combination) seems to have appeared out of the blue, but has been passed down in various combinations through the generations. One possible line of thought is Luke's mother's family were non-conformists. Maybe someone known to the family in those circles?
I have one of those - Baskerville Simms BOWDEN, my *cough*-times great uncle, who then had a son of the same name. All of Baskerville's siblings had 'normal' names. I don't have the details to hand but from memory I don't think I could find a birth reg. for Baskerville, unlike his brothers and sisters, and I had a suspicion he might have been named for his real or biological father...
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My ancestor James Plumb born in Leigh On Sea, Essex, had a brother called Thomas Smith Plumb. Their mum was a Saveall by birth so it may be a family name or the name of a local pillar of the community. Food for thought as I cannot yet find Thomas Plumb bornc1749 and Elizabeth Saveall's baptisms.
Distinctive middle names can be good.
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I'm on the verge of making a couple of breakthroughs right now, thanks to rare names.
My 4xgreat-grandfather Barnabas Moul may have been born in a different part of Essex from where he later lived. I've found a baptism for Barnabas Mole at the right time... it's probably the right person, but had he been a John or William I probably couldn't be sure.
Another recently found ancestor has the surname Nind, and might have had brothers called Philip and Benjamin. Hardly rare names, but not the most common either. I've found a few records some 50 years or so after their births, where there's a Philip with father Benjamin, or vice versa. I've not managed to link them in yet, but it's likely they're related somehow.
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You all probably know this already, but there are web sites that can give you world wide incidences or density of surnames and first names.
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My ancestor was Elizabeth Helsdon born 1784 in Bethnal Green. Her father was Dennis Helsdon, and with a rare name like that I thought it would be easier, even though, unless he lived to a ripe old age, Dennis would be dead before the 1841 census and deffo 1851, unless he reached over 90. I found a Dennis Helsdon baptised in 1756 in Norwich, Norfolk. I later proved it was the right person, and it shows you can sometimes track movements across counties for people who died prior to a census. Dennis died in 1798, so 43 years before the 1841 census.
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Latest ancestor added to my tree - Fields Carter. Hopefully he'll be easy to trace :)
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Distinctive names are all well and good ... as long as they stick to them!!!
One of my most problematic great great grandfathers is Thomas King Spooner. A nice easy name, you'd have thought ... but ... well!
I've still to invest in all the certificates to prove it, but I THINK I've puzzled him out.
Born: Thomas Escott Scott Spooner, Clerkenwell, 1857, only child of Edgar Spooner (a tailor) and his second wife Elizabeth Spooner (nee Escott). He had an older half sister called Mary Spooner, and a second older half sister called Louisa Mary King Spooner had died before he was born.
Elizabeth Spooner died between 1857 and 1863. Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate the family in the 1861 census, so I cannot say if this was before or after the census date.
Edgar Spooner adopted the name King, calling himself Edgar Spooner King, and then simply Edgar King. Thomas Escott Scott Spooner also appears to have adopted the name King, becoming (for now) simply Thomas King.
Edgar Spooner King married Eliza Wright in 1863, and they had three children, called Eve, Adam and John.
By the time of the 1871 census, Thomas King had left home and was an errand boy in the household of John Jacob Schafer at Coningham Terrace, Hammersmith (RG10 Piece 63 Folio 125 page 25).
[Edgar Spooner appears in the 1871 census as Edgar King, living with his wife Eliza and children Adam and Eve (John was not born until about 1873) in Artillery Lane, Bishopsgate, City of London (RG10 Piece 416 Folio 19 page 31); Eliza died between 1873 and 1877, and Edgar was married for a fourth time - reverting to the name Edgar Spooner - to Mary Ann Benge in Wandsworth in 1877. Mary Ann Spooner died in Lambeth in 1878, and in the 1881 census Edgar King is shown living at 5 Fanshaw Street, Shoreditch with his 8 year old son John (RG11 Piece 394 Folio 113 page 56). I do not have Edgar in any later censuses, but neither have I found his death.]
On 2 April 1879 Thomas King Spooner married Harriet Martindale at St Mary Hoxton, Middlesex.
In the 1881 census they appear as Thos and Harriet Spooner, living at 19 Buckingham High Street, Islington (RG11 Piece 231 Folio 11 page 19).
They have children Frances Mary K Spooner (1884), Augustine John K Spooner (1886), Joseph King Spooner (born and died 1888), Kathleen Honora Spooner (born 9 February 1890).
In the 1891 Census they are listed at 166 Brady Street Dwellings, Brady Street, Whitechapel as Thomas K Spooner and Harriet Spooner, with children Frances, Augustine and Kathleen (RG12 Piece 279 Folio 28 page 28)
They have a further three children: Mildred King Spooner (born 1892, died 1894); Thomas King Spooner (born 1894); Harriet King Spooner (born 1897)
The 1901 census shows Thomas King Spooner, Harriett Spooner and their five surviving children at 13 High Street, Stratford Riverside, West Ham (RG13 Piece 1562 Folio 18 page 27)
Harriet Spooner died in 1905.
In the 1911 census, Thomas King Spooner and his son Thomas King Spooner are listed at 83 Diggon Street, Stepney (RG14PN1591 RG78PN56 RD21 SD1 ED20 SN185)
His daughter whose name at birth was registered as Kathleen Honora Spooner (no King: this is my great grandmother and I have her birth certificate - DEFINITELY no King) married in 1912. Her name on the marriage certificate is recorded as Kathleen Honora King Spooner.
I have not found Thomas King Spooner's death ... unless he is Thomas Spooner, 75, who died in the Tendring registration district in 1932 (obtaining this death certificate is high on my list of research priorities).
Now come ON guys ... if you're born with a name which is as helpful to future genealogists as Thomas Escott Scott Spooner ... for pity's sake MAKE USE OF IT!!!!!
................following on with your request Thomas King Spooner according to ancestry.com died in March 1923 in Ireland, interestingly enough also confirms him being born in Wicklow Ireland in 1856 prior to moving to the UK (although there's later census certificates mentioning him being born in Clerkenwell London), I'm related down the line and I remember his grand daughters Sheila and Iris Spooner mentioning their grandad's Irish birth many years ago, hope this to be of help
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Another recently found ancestor has the surname Nind, and might have had brothers called Philip and Benjamin. Hardly rare names, but not the most common either. I've found a few records some 50 years or so after their births, where there's a Philip with father Benjamin, or vice versa. I've not managed to link them in yet, but it's likely they're related somehow.
I have a Phillip Nind that married into my Trant family in 1775 -- any connection?
Phillip Nind bn 1751
married Catherine Trant 9th Nov 1775 Braughing Herts
died Aug 1815 Wargrave Berks
As he is only a connection rather than direct line, I haven't gone into his forebears, tho I have traced some of his children down a generation or two
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Another recently found ancestor has the surname Nind, and might have had brothers called Philip and Benjamin. Hardly rare names, but not the most common either. I've found a few records some 50 years or so after their births, where there's a Philip with father Benjamin, or vice versa. I've not managed to link them in yet, but it's likely they're related somehow.
I have a Phillip Nind that married into my Trant family in 1775 -- any connection?
Phillip Nind bn 1751
married Catherine Trant 9th Nov 1775 Braughing Herts
died Aug 1815 Wargrave Berks
As he is only a connection rather than direct line, I haven't gone into his forebears, tho I have traced some of his children down a generation or two
It's a possibility. My Ninds originate from Worcestershire and Warwickshire, but maybe they move further afield. I'll look into it.
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My 5x great-grandfather was named Sweatman Revell (after his mother's maiden name) but it has been no help in finding a burial record. Unless he lived to be quite old (90+) then his death would've been pre-civil registration.
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My grandfather was named Frederick James Jones. The name Frederick had never appeared anywhere that I could tell. Then I noticed his parents wedding information and noted one of the witnesses was named Frederick James Styles. My grandfather was named after the best man! I never saw that coming. :)
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My new challenge ... identifyng the Martindale migrant from the Lake District to London.
In my Martindale line, the middle name "Tamar" or "Tamer" crops up quite often. At first I assumed a West Country link, but no! The he name "Tamer" seems to frequently found as a middle name (and occasionally a first name ... including a Tamer Martindale) in the Lakeland hamlet of Holme Cultram.
So that's where I shall be concentrating my efforts ...
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................following on with your request Thomas King Spooner according to ancestry.com died in March 1923 in Ireland, interestingly enough also confirms him being born in Wicklow Ireland in 1856 prior to moving to the UK (although there's later census certificates mentioning him being born in Clerkenwell London), I'm related down the line and I remember his grand daughters Sheila and Iris Spooner mentioning their grandad's Irish birth many years ago, hope this to be of help
I've only just seen this, Griff (wasn't doing much on the family history front in 2018 ... )
We've managed to piece together a lot more about Edgar and his family since then, of course ... but I wonder what the Ancestry confirmation is based on. Is it just the census entries, do you think? Or does somebody else have something more that we need to investigate?
Very interested in learning more about Sheila and Iris. Of course, we know there were spurious stories put about in the family to cover up for the potentially bigamous marriage ... and this may simply be the echo of another one.
My father was always adamant that both of his parents were half Irish, but they were nothing like. (My paternal grandfather had no Irish blood in him at all; but during the second war my great grandfather took his wife and six youngest children to live in Bray for the duration, and this led my uncle (born 1948) to have somehow acquired the notion that the family line consisted of "gentleman farmers in Bray" ... so these stories of Irish descent can very easily gain currency!