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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Thunder Monkey on Saturday 02 January 16 18:25 GMT (UK)

Title: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Saturday 02 January 16 18:25 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

Hope you all had a good holiday season. 
I was hoping anyone could help me try to trace my 3x Gt GF and hopefully his parents.

His name was William Long, b1857, in 'London' (however 1891 census states Devizes, Wiltshire) and was a gas and water fitter.

He married Matilda Louisa Dove (born 1862, Clacton, Essex) in 1879; unsure on location as year was taken from 1911 census.

They had 4 children; William, John Henry, Thomas Frederick and Charles Pretoria.
All born in Gt Clacton, Essex.

1891 census - Class: RG12; Piece: 1400; Folio: 20; Page: 12; - born London
1901 census - Class: RG13; Piece: 1695; Folio: 36; Page: 33  - born Devizes, Wiltshire
1911 census - Class: RG14; Piece: 10229; Schedule Number: 300  - born London

This is all the info that I have, if anyone could help I would be very grateful.

TIA

Butch
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 18:36 GMT (UK)
Here is their marriage - from Freebmd:

Marriages Sep 1879   
 
DOVE    Matilda       
LONG    William       
Tendring    4a   395

The certificate would give you his father's name.
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Saturday 02 January 16 18:49 GMT (UK)
Here is their marriage - from Freebmd:

Marriages Sep 1879   
 
DOVE    Matilda       
LONG    William       
Tendring    4a   395

The certificate would give you his father's name.

Thank you, much appreciated.
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 18:52 GMT (UK)
Are you sure that you have the right one in 1901, the only one I can see born in Devizes is married to Emma Fanny Long.

This looks like his birth, but I don't think he is yours

William Long
1854 Jul-Aug-Sep
Devizes
Volume:   5a  Page:   91

There are a lot of William Longs born in London around this time, so I think you may have to get the marriage certificate to make sure that you follow the right one.
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Saturday 02 January 16 18:55 GMT (UK)
Are you sure that you have the right one in 1901, the only one I can see born in Devizes is married to Emma Fanny Long.


The 1901 is from Clacton again, and they are listed...

William Long 50
Matilda Long 40
John H Long 20
Thomas F Long 14
Charles P Long 11/12
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 20:02 GMT (UK)
Found that one!

Isn't it odd (and annoying) that he is so sure of it being Devizes, Wiltshire on that one, but everywhere else just says London, rather than a place in London? Not only that his date of birth has changed to 1851!
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 20:06 GMT (UK)
Look at this - could it be him in 1861 and so explain the two places of birth?

RG09 Piece 1293 Folio 108  Page 37
2, ... Court, St Marys, Devizes, Wiltshire

    
Elizabeth   Long       Widow       45    Charwoman   Devizes, Wiltshire
Thomas   Long   Son           11       Scholar          Westminster, Middlesex
William   Long   Son       M    9       Scholar          Westminster, Middlesex
John   Long   Son       Male   6       Scholar                   Devizes, Wiltshire

Notice that he called two of his children Thomas and John!
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 20:24 GMT (UK)
If so, this could be his father

1851  Westminster St John the Evangelist
HO107; Piece: 1479; Folio: 664; Page: 41;

Thomas Long   26   Hostter?                Potterne, Wiltshire
Elizabeth Long   32                               Devizes, Wiltshire
Thomas Long   1                                 Lambeth, Surrey
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 20:27 GMT (UK)
Possible marriage?

Marriages Jun 1847   
 
INGS            Elizabeth        
LONG    Thomas       
 Amesbury    8   429      
 
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 January 16 20:32 GMT (UK)
Death of his father?

Deaths Mar 1854
 
Long    Thomas       
Devizes    5a   73

Title: Re: William Long
Post by: kanskar on Saturday 02 January 16 20:57 GMT (UK)
1881 Census - transcribed as LANG - Occupation - Gas Fitter born London living in Little Clacton Road, Great Clacton. Age - 25

Reference : RG11 1779 Folio 36 Page 7. 

Title: Re: William Long
Post by: kanskar on Saturday 02 January 16 22:16 GMT (UK)
Look at this - could it be him in 1861 and so explain the two places of birth?

RG09 Piece 1293 Folio 108  Page 37
2, ... Court, St Marys, Devizes, Wiltshire

    
Elizabeth   Long       Widow       45    Charwoman   Devizes, Wiltshire
Thomas   Long   Son           11       Scholar          Westminster, Middlesex
William   Long   Son       M    9       Scholar          Westminster, Middlesex
John   Long   Son       Male   6       Scholar                   Devizes, Wiltshire

Notice that he called two of his children Thomas and John!

If the 1861 is accurate - then this could be his birth reg:

William James Long - Westminster 1-470 Dec 1851 Qtr
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Sunday 03 January 16 19:05 GMT (UK)
Groom, Kanskar,

You are both amazing!  Thank you ever so much, I couldn't have got through this 'brickwall' without you.

Even after almost 8 years, I still need practice and lessons on searching for ancestors!

I am indebted to you both.

Cheers again.

Butch

P.S.  Apologies for the delay, I live in Cyprus and we are a couple of hours ahead and can only get online once I get my darling 4 year old little girl to bed.
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Sunday 03 January 16 19:59 GMT (UK)
You're welcome. It was pure luck finding that 1861 census when I searched using Devizes as a keyword, it was lucky that he used that as a place of birth on one census.

It looks as if the family moved to London at some time between the marriage and the birth of the first son, and then returned to Devizes before the death of Thomas in the March quarter of 1854. His son was born just after his death, in the June quarter of 1854. Perhaps Thomas was ill and returned home to die and so that his wife would be near family. A similar thing happened in my family. My gx2 grandfather and family moved to London from Suffolk and my great grandmother was born there. Then the next thing I found, three months later, was his death from TB back in Suffolk, and the family there in the following census.

Perhaps your William was aware that he was born somewhere in London, but because he lived in Devizes as a young child, probably also considered that is where he came from.
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: kanskar on Sunday 03 January 16 20:12 GMT (UK)
Happy to help. Kanskar
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: groom on Sunday 03 January 16 20:18 GMT (UK)
Looking for Thomas Long born 1825 Wiltshire in the 1841 census there are two - one in Wilsford, Amesbury and one in Sutton Veney, Warminster. I think yours is the first one as it comes under Amesbury and also the Sutton Veney one is still there with a wife in 1851.

According to the 1841, Thomas's father is a coachman. I think that Hostler in 1851 could well be Ostler ie working with horses.

1841 HO107; Piece: 1186; Book: 20  Wilsford
All born in county

William Long  35  coachman
Sarah Long    40
Thomas Long 15
Caroline       13
Maria             11
John                9
Robert             7
William            5


Title: Re: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Sunday 03 January 16 20:27 GMT (UK)
You're welcome. It was pure luck finding that 1861 census when I searched using Devizes as a keyword, it was lucky that he used that as a place of birth on one census.

It looks as if the family moved to London at some time between the marriage and the birth of the first son, and then returned to Devizes before the death of Thomas in the March quarter of 1854. His son was born just after his death, in the June quarter of 1854. Perhaps Thomas was ill and returned home to die and so that his wife would be near family. A similar thing happened in my family. My gx2 grandfather and family moved to London from Suffolk and my great grandmother was born there. Then the next thing I found, three months later, was his death from TB back in Suffolk, and the family there in the following census.

Perhaps your William was aware that he was born somewhere in London, but because he lived in Devizes as a young child, probably also considered that is where he came from.

Another lesson learned.  I'll add it to my ancestry-hunting lessons ;)
Title: Re: William Long
Post by: Thunder Monkey on Sunday 03 January 16 21:40 GMT (UK)
Looking for Thomas Long born 1825 Wiltshire in the 1841 census there are two - one in Wilsford, Amesbury and one in Sutton Veney, Warminster. I think yours is the first one as it comes under Amesbury and also the Sutton Veney one is still there with a wife in 1851.

According to the 1841, Thomas's father is a coachman. I think that Hostler in 1851 could well be Ostler ie working with horses.

1841 HO107; Piece: 1186; Book: 20  Wilsford
All born in county

William Long  35  coachman
Sarah Long    40
Thomas Long 15
Caroline       13
Maria             11
John                9
Robert             7
William            5

WOW, superb, that has just opened up so many avenues to follow. 
I think i'll be here a while tonight! ;)