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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: gidget37 on Saturday 02 January 16 09:29 GMT (UK)
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Help please, I am trying to find the death of my gr gr grandmother Ann Porter nee Caffrey( Irish) on her marriage cert. (although her eldest daughter put McCaffrey on her dads death info) Ann married James Porter in Catholic church Albury, New South Wales on 20/5/1861. Their first child (my gr grandmother) was born Ellen Porter ,26 Feb. 1862 ,wombat, Burrangang,NSW.
James and Ann had 7 children, the youngest Mary T Porter b Wagga, 1875. I believe Ann may have died in or after childbirth. Wagga Wagga.
No further entries for Ann Porter. No death notice. Nothing for four years.
Then James has another wife Elizabeth, with whom he has 5 more children, the first b John in 1879 Wagga. I have plenty of information on all of this, including death of James and Elizabeth and their children. The family was still in Wagga Wagga in 1920's
Except no details of Death of Ann, and marriage of James to Elizabeth. Hope this is not too much information.
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I have requested this to be moved as you have posted in the Completed Board :) topic moved over ;)
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Do you know if the children stayed with and were all raised by James?
Debra :D
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Do you have James' death cert? It should include details of both marriages (when, where, name of spouse) and the children of each marriage should be listed under their respective mothers.
It is possible that if Ann's death was sudden, that there was a Coroner's inquest or at least a Police Magistrate's enquiry. Sometimes, particularly in regional areas, where the population was 'sparse' so the number of inquests/enquiries was low/infrequent, the actual admin process was not completed in full. The Coroner/Police Magistrate would issue a burial order for the funeral director to bury the deceased (public hygiene issues) and the inquest may follow that burial. And often, no one would then consider reporting the actual death to the Deputy BDM registrar for that district.
I should also add, in that era, the reporting was done verbally, the Deputy BDM was often a part time position, sometimes part of the Clerk of Petty Sessions duties, sometimes part of the Sherrif's duties .... sometimes the paperwork simply did not a) get done or b) get sent to Sydney BDM Reg Gen's office or c) was so poorly written in longhand scribble that it was not actioned once it was in Sydney and d) 'lost in the mail' ....
Cheers, JM
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Hi, yes I have his death certificate and all of his children are listed with their ages correctly. The only marriage mentioned is his one to Ann Caffrey 20th May 1861, in Albury, NSW. The details were given by his eldest daughter then aged 44 yrs. And she was close to her step mother.
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Hi,
Re James DC ....
So are you saying that
:) all of Ellen's siblings and half siblings are listed as though they are James and Ann's children....
and
:) that there's no mention of James wife, Elizabeth ?
If you have a birth cert (or official transcription) for the youngest of James' children, you should learn from it when and where James married Elizabeth.
:) Was William H noted on James dc?
There's a birth registered Wagga for a William H PORTER, parents as James & Elizabeth. This was in 1893 and is ref #35924. To me, just looking at the online index, I had presumed that that William born in 1893 with parents as James and Elizabeth was likely the son of James born 1870 also at Wagga, and I would guess that James and Elizabeth could be son and daughter in law to James and Ann. Of course, it would have been speculation on my part.
Anyways, a NSW birth cert (or its cheaper version, the official transcription) includes information about the parent/s of the baby, including their own ages, their origins and when/where married. And of course it also includes the details of that baby's older siblings. So, please do consider checking your folders and look for a birth registration for a child of James and Elizabeth, anticipating you will find when and where they married.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
ADD
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=8018376 William Henry PORTER, AIF, KiA Fromelles 19 July 1916. Correspondence on the file from Elizabeth (his mother) and Annie (his sister).
Cheers, JM
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I can find a registration at St Leonards (not at Wagga) for a John PORTER in 1879, but not a son of James.
I cannot find a registration for a John PORTER, son of James and Elizabeth, anywhere in NSW between 1870 and 1900.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
Cheers, JM
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From the 1903 NSW Electoral Roll for BLAND, polling at Wagga
PORTER
Elizabeth, Docker Street, domestic duties
James, Beckwith Street, brickmaker
James, Docker Street, labourer
John, Docker Street, labourer
Robert, Docker Street, labourer.
So, if I speculate that John and Robert are both sons of James, then I need to mention that to enrol to vote, they needed to be at least 21 years of age (1903 minus 21 equals 1882)
I cannot see a NSW birth registered for Robert PORTER with parents as James and Elizabeth or as James and Ann ( searching 1856-1900).
Cheers, JM
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Can you please list all the details on the marriage certificate, 1861, and the death certificate 1906.
I think it is likely that Elizabeth has brought some children to her relationship with James PORTER.
William Henry PORTER #3397 KIA 19 Jul 1917, NOK Mrs Elizabeth PORTER. File includes enquiry from sister A M PORTER "Carluke" Bellevue Parade Hurstville.
NSW BDM births
5362/1862 PORTER Helen Wagga Wagga
parents James / Anne
15691/1864 PORTER Johanna M Wagga Wagga
parents James / Ann
15710/1866 PORTER Michael Wagga Wagga
parents James / Ann
17309/1868 PORTER Emma J Wagga Wagga
parents James / Ann
18051/1870 PORTER James Wagga Wagga
parents James / Ann
20672/1875 PORTER Mary T Wagga Wagga
parents James / Ann
These might be the only births to James PORTER and Elizabeth.....
NSW BDM births
27969/1889 PORTER Linda L Wagga Wagga
parents James / Elizabeth
35924/1893 PORTER William H Wagga Wagga
parents James / Elizabeth
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SMH 23 Jan 1935
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17131889?
..funeral Elizabeth PORTER........residence of her daughter, Mrs. R. S. Jones, 37 William-street........Botany Cemetery.
Eastern Suburbs Memorial Part
Elizabeth PORTER 23/01/1935 GB - General FM B - 246 age 85
NSW BDM marriage
9358/1909 JONES Robert S m. PORTER Linda L Wagga Wagga
Wagga Wagga Express 6 May 1909
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/145414388?
...funeral of the late Eleanor Belmore PORTER....her mother's residence Docker Street......pall bearers C W GRIMES, T MACKLIN, W PERRIMAN and J PORTER (brother of the deceased).
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Thank you all for your searches.
I am not to sure of how to get around Rootschat anymore, it has changed so much.
Wivenhoe. Yes I have that information. Elizabeth was on Electrol roll as PORTER as well as at her death and burial. Thanks but still no marriage. William Henry, the youngest child died in France in WW1. Linda had a son Robert then later married Robert S Jones and moved to Sydney suburbs.
Son not on BDM Robert Porter b 1881 Wagga, died 8/12/1906 in hospital Wagga. Two days after his father James PORTER d. 6/12/1906 at home Docker St,Wagga. They were both buried in Ch of E Cometary Wagga.The Wagga Advertiser has burial notices 10/12/1906. There are no birth registrations for Benjamin PORTER b 1863 but he did indeed exist. James PORTER listed himself as goldminer on Hellen's birth certificate 26/2/1862, so maybe the family was moving around before settling into Wagga and his brickmaking business down by the river. All of the rest of the children born Wagga Wagga.
majm..I think Ann may have died in childbirth 1875 daughter Mary Therese was born then and the last listed child of Ann and James. Then four years later Elizabeth gives birth to John b 1879 James PORTER father. Wagga. Followed by Robert in 1881 Wagga, then Eleanor Belmore in 1883 Wagga then Linda Lillian b 1889 Wagga and last William Henry in 1893 Wagga.
All 13 children from Hellen down to William Henry are named and ages at the time of the death certificate of James PORTER are listed correctly. The thing is the Place of marriage, age and to whom column lists Albury,NSW age 28 yrs. Ann McCaffery. (different spelling) Not a mention of Elizabeth on the certificate at all. Interesting thing William Henry Jones is listed as witness to burial. I'm wondering if he is Elizabeth's father or brother as he was listed in the newspaper as pall bearer.Her youngest son was named William Henry and on her death notice says her fathers name was William. The Electrol roll you found lists all the older children of James and Elizabeth, not the two youngest as not old enough.
Dundee.. Yes they all stayed with James until marriage or death. I wonder if Elizabeth came into their lives as a domestic, because Hellen would have been only 13 in 1875.
Thank you everyone for your efforts, I hope I have done this corerectly.
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Yes, :) and may I ask if you have a NSW birth cert (or official transcription) for William Henry, the lad who fell at Fromelles. On NSW BDM birth certs (or official transcriptions) you read information provided by the person registering the birth. The info includes the details about when and where the baby's parents married. You are asking about when and where James married Elizabeth. William Henry's birth is listed at NSW BDM online index, with parents as James and Elizabeth. :) so from his birth registration I would expect you to learn when and where his parents (James and Elizabeth) married, and other info about them.
With that info, we can then help you to further your quest, to search for Ann, as we will know the year James married Elizabeth :) and perhaps the names/ages of William's older siblings (by James and Elizabeth).
35924/1893 PORTER William H Wagga Wagga
parents James / Elizabeth
Cheers, JM
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Can you please list all the details on the marriage certificate, 1861, and the death certificate 1906.
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Hi all, fractured my shoulder, will get back to you ASAP thanks for being patient. :(