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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: Bottie on Thursday 24 December 15 04:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Thursday 24 December 15 04:37 GMT (UK)
Hugh Hastings SHANKS left San Francisco to go to Australia in 1852 to find gold. He met and married Mary Ann PERKINS He was in harbour of Peru in November of 1854 where his first son was born and so the marriage happened before this. I am not entirely certain they were married in Victoria but if my thoughts are right her father James Perkins died in Richmond 26 Feb 1862 I am assuming this is her family as they went to Australia from Whiltshire England. However I have nothing to prove this is my family and need the marriage certificate to hopefully gleen information to prove this.
A lady here did tell me that they were married in St James Old Cathedral in Melbourne but the volunteers there found nothing.
Any help would be much appreciated!    :) ;D
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: warncoort on Thursday 24 December 15 09:01 GMT (UK)
Victorian BDM now free to search.https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
More unwanted certificates here..http://ausbdm.ucoz.org/
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Thursday 24 December 15 16:18 GMT (UK)
LOL been there done that! I am at my whits end with this man. I can not find a birth or marriage record for him and I have nothing to prove his wife is really his wife. All I have is his death record and family letters to prove he is real. We are beginning to think maybe he changed his identity when he moved west in early 1800's from New Brunswick. LOL
Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Thursday 24 December 15 22:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
A lady here did tell me that they were married in St James Old Cathedral in Melbourne but the volunteers there found nothing.

Do you mean on rootschat when you say 'here'?  Perhaps you were registered with another user name as I can only see two posts for you to date.

Civil registration in Victoria commenced in Jul 1853 and if they married prior to that date and the parish records were not forwarded to the Melbourne BDM Registry as required by legislation, then you will not find a marriage record for your couple.  Be aware that this was the period for the gold rush in Victoria and if they married in a rural area there is more likelihood of parish records not reaching Melbourne.

The first marriage registration in Victoria for a Mary/Mary Ann PERKINS in Victoria was in 1855.

I cannot see a marriage for them in Australia.

Quote
her father James Perkins died in Richmond 26 Feb 1862

The only James PERKINS death in 1862 Victoria is for a 10 month old child who was born Richmond.   In 1860 the same couple registered the birth of a daughter Mary Elizabeth PERKINS at Richmond.

Births
PERKINS Mary Ann Elizabeth
Father James Peplor  Mother Elizabeth WHEELER
At Richmond  1860  Reg#1468

PERKINS James Peplor
Father James Peplor  Mothe: Elizabeth Nixon WHEELER
At Richmond  1861  Reg#12608

Death
PERKINS James Peplor
Father James Peplor  Mother Elizabeth Nixon WHEELER
1862  Born Richmond  10 Months  Reg#7404

What is the source of your information that Mary's father was James PERKINS and he died 26 Feb 1862?

Cando





Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Thursday 24 December 15 23:38 GMT (UK)
You may have made an error with the year of death for James PERKINS.  Died 1872 not 1862.

From Public Records of Victoria, Wills and Admon Index.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
PERKINS James    Baker    Richmond    26 Feb 1872    9/613    VPRS 28/P0, unit 107;
VPRS 28/P2, unit 6;
VPRS 7591/P2, unit 5

Probate file is digitised and this is definitely the James PERKINS, baker, from Wiltshire, with wife Charlotte who emigrated to Victoria in 1849 on the JAMES T FORDE with family including a daughter Mary Ann.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gq8/

His wife appears to be Elizabeth so I am assuming that James re-married after the death of Charlotte in 1858. Charlotte his dau is the only child mentioned in the Will.

PERKINS James
SHEA Elizabeth
1859  Reg#1486

Cando

Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Friday 25 December 15 04:29 GMT (UK)
Sorry, I say here meaning North America. I am in Canada and the lady I am talking about is in California USA. I don't know where she got her information. But she has talked about the relationship between this family PERKINS in Australia and our SHANKS.
I did make a mistake on the date, sorry. The James PERKINS you mention is the one I think is mine. I have family letters and photographs talking about the PERKINS family from Australia. Also one of Hughs sons was named James Perkins SHANKS. On Mary Ann Perkins death certificate it states she was from Wiltshire also on Census records. So I know the family name is PERKINS and I am thinking this is the right one but just have not proved it yet. I am reluctant to say it is fact when I am not 100% certain.
Yes, Charlotte his wife died and he remarried Elizabeth but this was only information I picked up doing the search here and at Ancestry.
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Friday 25 December 15 04:54 GMT (UK)
This may be your man

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60127039
16 Jan 1852  EAGLE arrival from San Francisco, Captain Samuel SHANKS with Hugh SHANKS passenger

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4785140
25 May 1852 to Launceston

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4786915
26 Aug 1852 leaving Melbourne for Sydney

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article61325443
24 Jun 1853  Hugh SHANKS passenger for Melbourne.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article61325930
11 Jul 1853 Cargo for Melbourne

James PERKIN's son James Peplor married Elizabeth Nixon WHEELER in 1858 but I have traced them to his death.  Elizabeth placed a paid notice in the newspaper of the day stating she had paid for his funeral!!

My thoughts at this stage - if Mary Ann and Hugh married in Victoria then it was possibly prior to July 1853.  Not all churches co-operated with the government request to forward registers to the Victorian Registry for transcription.  I have searched the indexes and there is no marriage in Victoria.

James and Elizabeth SHEA had a child..but there is no mention of a son in his Will.

PERKINS Alfred Joseph
Father James  Mother Elizabeth SHEA
At Melbourne  1862  Reg#9742


Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Friday 25 December 15 05:13 GMT (UK)
Both Charlotte's and James' death certificate should list all issue to their marriage.  You can purchase an image online [AUD$24] and download immediately.

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

Addresses for the PERKINS family in Richmond would also help confirm this is the correct family.  I can type up addresses from the Richmond Rate Books and Sands and McDougall directories if you wish....but not today.  What years were the families corresponding?

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Friday 25 December 15 05:39 GMT (UK)
Yes I think this is my man. Samuel SHANKS was his brother who was lost sight of in 1860 when he joined the civil war. Both men were seafarers and Hugh was a carpenter and I believe both boat builders. I do have the record of their arrival in Australia. I also have information that Hugh went to the gold fields on the Ovens River in 1852 but other than that I don't know what he did there. I don't think he got rich as none of the gold made its way down to me!
It looks like I might have to go to Australia to find this information. Too bad I wasn't doing this when I lived there in the 80's. LOL
All the death records I have here with this family indicate mother born Wiltshire England and her death record shows her birth date. They had six children and I have records on all of them. I am pretty certain this is my family but as you say, It is only speculation until verified!!!!
 Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate your trying.
Annie
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Friday 25 December 15 05:43 GMT (UK)
I don't know what the Richmond Rate books are? I also don't want you to be doing for me at a time when you should be with family. I can wait. Tomorrow for me is very busy and unlikely I will be on line. Remember I am a day behind you if you are in Australia. :) 
The James PERKINS from there wouldn't tell me anything about Hugh or Mary Ann. He would have been Mary Ann's brother.
Again thanks.
Annie
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Friday 25 December 15 05:51 GMT (UK)
The James PERKINS that married WHEELER was Mary Ann's brother. Her father James PERKINS married Elizabeth Shea in 1858
Groan too many names the same.
Annie
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Friday 25 December 15 07:50 GMT (UK)
Richmond Rate Books are rate registers and value of properties in the suburb of Richmond. It would give you the residential address of James Snr prior to his death in 1872.

I cannot find any further information in Australia about Mary Ann PERKINS who emigrated with her father James and mother Charlotte and siblings  on the JAMES T FORDE in 1849.

Annie I have no problem working out the family.   James son was James Peplor PERKINS.

I only wish we could have some addresses as that would help validate you have the right PERKINS family in Victoria.

Mary Ann's sister Charlotte's interred with half-brother Alfred Joseph son of James and his second wife, Elizabeth SHEA.

Interred at Melbourne General Cemetery
Religion Baptist  Section C Grave#

PERKINS
Erected by
Elizabeth PERKINS
in memory of her sister
Catherine RANDALL
who died
14 Nov  1880
also Alfred Joseph PERKINS loved son of the late James and Elizabeth PERKINS
and beloved husband of Alice E PERKINS
who died
21  Apr 1911, age 48 years.
also Charlotte E PERKINS
daughter of the late James and Charlotte PERKINS
died 12 Dec 1915, age 67 years.

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Friday 25 December 15 11:35 GMT (UK)
I doubt Hugh and Mary married in Aus ie if they did marry.  The 1900 census shows their years of marriage 45 so married after the birth of their first child.  Mary became as US citizen in 1855.  Are those records available?

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Friday 25 December 15 19:05 GMT (UK)
 married after the birth of their first child!

 I never even saw that. If I did I would have supposed it to be a mistake. Good Catholics that they were! (tongue in cheek  ;)
So I should be looking in Peru or USA maybe. Or maybe they didn't ever marry.
The family also had connections to Chile so they could have married anywhere. I will try for the record of Mary's citizenship. I am heading into California for a month in Jan. so should be able to find something there.
I will post if I do. In the meantime if you do find anything I am always open to help as I am a bit of a klutz.  :D
Annie
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: cando on Friday 25 December 15 21:49 GMT (UK)
Annie the clues will be in the letters and photos.  I have found quite a lot of info on the PERKINS family in Aus however we need some addresses in Aus.  Late last night I found a number of public trees, some of them sourced and referenced however the info was more than likely copied from tree to tree.

James and Charlotte's dau Charlotte who died in 1915, left a will in which she named her surviving sisters, sister in law and nieces as beneficiaries.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

The PERKINS family in Melbourne were in the habit of placing personal notices in the newspapers of the day and surely if their dau Mary Ann had married in Victoria there would have been a marriage announcement.  I'm don't think some of the news items wouldn't have been welcomed at times!!

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4767851
James PERKINS noted on an letter of appreciation to the captain of the James Thomas foorde.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article93133701
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4769383
1849 James PERKINS purchased  brandy during the journey on the JAMES THOMAS FOORDE to Australia

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4795308   18 Jul 1854
On the 17th inst., at Essingdon Vale, parish of Doutta Galla, by the Rev. J. Reed, Mathew Bolger to Emma Louisa Perkins, fourth daughter of James Perkins, of 115 Lonsdale-street, Melbourne.

[The place of marriage is a suburb of Melbourne now named Essendon and the PERKINS family don't appear to be Roman Catholics. In one of your requests for family info on the web, you wrote  Hugh Hastings Shanks, son of Samuel Shanks and Francis Langan was born 14 March 1824 in Maugerville and baptized at the Church of England.   I also found your transcribed Great Grandfathers letter from his brother dated November 9 1930  Interesting.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article7295932     30 Jun 1858
On the 9th inst., at her residence, 182 Little Collins-street east, Charlotte, the beloved wife of James Perkins, formerly of Devizes, Wilts, in her 57th year.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article7303166 21 Oct 1858
On the 19th inst., at St. Peter's Church, by the Rev. C. Booth, James Pepler Perkins, elder son of Mr. Perkins, 182 Little Collins-street east, to Elizabeth Nixon Wheeler, second daughter of Mr. Henry Wheeler, of Emerald Hill, late Commercial-road, East London.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5685299   28 Jul 1859
Dissolution of partnership between James PERKINS and James P PERKINS, Bakers
and grocers.

I thought the surnames interesting!
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5694719   2 Jan 1861
OVERCHARGE FOR TOLLS.-P. Shea was charged by James Perkins with charging more than the legal amount for toll over the Richmond Bridge. The case was remanded to Wednesday next.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5703741 4 Sep 1861
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5703794  15 Sep 1861
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5705374  25 Oct  1861
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155006884   26 May 1862
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5767617  12 Jul 1866
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5767805   14 Jul 1866
http://nla http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5767805 .gov.au/nla.news-article160218602   2 Aug 1866
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5843838   6 Dec 1872
Insolvency James Popler PERKINS

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5860159   28 Feb 1872
THE Friends of the late Mr. JAMES PERKINS (Baker) are respectfully invited to follow his remains to the place of interment, Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral to move from his late residence, 214 Church street, Richmond, THIS DAY, at 3 o'clock p.m.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5860172   29 Feb 1872
PERKINS.- On the 27th inst., at his residence, 214 Church-street, Richmond, James Perkins, aged 64 years, native of Caln, in Wiltshire. Home papers please copy.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5860889    22 Mar 1872
Probate was granted in the County Court yesterday to the will of James Perkins, late of Church-street, Richmond, baker.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8682726   4 Jul 1894
PERKINS -On the 4th inst, at her late residence, No 65 Chetwynd-street North Melbourne, Elisabeth  Perkins, relict of tho late James Perkins, aged 70years.
And funeral notice
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197465562

Found online

Birth of Son Samuel Hugh SHANKS [1854–1940]
24 Nov 1854  Caleo, Peru in an "English Hotel"
and I then found a H SHANKS, 30 years, miner arriving New York on the 25 Nov 1854.

I guess you have these photographs....
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/mrs-hugh-hastings-shanks-nee-mary-ann-perkins
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/james-perkins-shanks-son-of-mr-and-mrs-hugh-hastings-shanks-nee-mary-ann-perkins
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/mrs-samuel-hugh-shanks-nee-mary-latham
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/mrs-samuel-h-shanks
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/sisters-mary-and-emma-latham
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/james-and-george-shanks-sons-of-mr-and-mrs-hugh-hastings-shanks
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/samuel-h-shanks-of-50th-gordon-highlanders

I'm sure we can help you further if you could provide some addresses, photographs and possibly content of those letters between the PERKINS and SHANKS families.

Cando
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Tuesday 29 December 15 04:11 GMT (UK)
Oh man, so much to take in! I am off to California on the weekend and am hoping to meet the lady who I am related to and who knows a bit more about the Perkins family than I do. You have definetly opened some very good avenues of search for me to explore. I don't have the ability to think in so many directions at once LOL
The letters I mentioned are from my James Perkins SHANKS to his brother, my great grandfather, in the beginning of 1900's In these letters he talks about family but not about the PERKINS in Australia. The cousin I am meeting in California is the one who knows more than I about this branch. James Perkins SHANKS was her great Grandfather.
Perhaps the British Council General in San Francisco still has the information James gave them while trying to tell them about the birth of his brother without a lengthy history of the family. Now that is something that may well be worth searching out! (this from the letter Nov 9 1930) James sounded like a very interesting man according to the letters that I have LOL
The photos I do have.
I am taking all my information with me as my family has so much history in California it would be a waste not to search there. I will post after I speak with my cousin and see if three heads are better than two.
Again thanks for your enormous help!!!
Annie
Title: Re: Victoria Australia marriage documents for Hugh Hastings SHANKS
Post by: Bottie on Tuesday 29 December 15 04:18 GMT (UK)
"and I then found a H SHANKS, 30 years, miner arriving New York on the 25 Nov 1854."

This was when he was on his way from Peru to New Brunswick when both his parents died of Colera. They died within 8 hours of each other. Hugh went there to settle the estate with his brother Samuel. As far as we can figure out Hugh signed over his claim to Samuel and left the east never to return.

I know about the church, it was my feeble attempt at being funny...