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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: KellyMarie1992 on Friday 18 December 15 14:36 GMT (UK)
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My grandmother has always wanted to know her siblings bur being orphaned at 6 weeks old she never got to know them as well because they all moved to different homes (But still knew of eachother and still kept in touch with each other for a while). They went to Banardos in London when their mother died when my grandmother was 6 weeks old and the father couldn't cope on his own. My grandmother is in the early stages of Dimentia so I'd like to tell her what happened to her brothers while she still knows who they are. - They all came from the Kington area in Hereford, Wales.
Charles Jones 1902-1965 Married 1926 Ivy Annie Chambers 1903-1934. - Charles Re-Married in about 1943.
- Evan Jack Jones 10.01.1927-2005. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- Cecil Charles Jones 08.05.1929-07.05.1995 - Known as Ken.
- Beryl Jones 1931-1952. - Died without Marrying. - my grandmother stayed in touch with her.
- George William Jones 06.03.1933-1988. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- My Grandmother 1934-.
Evan Jack, Cecil Charles & George William I'm looking for I think Evan moved back to Hereford, George Possibly moved to Leeds and Cecil died in Yorkshire.
Evan & George I would like to know/be pointed in the right direction for marriages.
Cecil might be a little harder I was told by my grandmother that she can remember him having an argument with her father (when they was at home one Christmas) about him wanting to marry a girl he met during the war I think possibly French/German. I'm not sure if he married her in France/Germany or if it was in the UK or if he married someone completely different, But I defiantly do know that he had 4 children from his first marriage (2 boys and 2 girls I think) and he married a second time 1980 Dorothy E Garroway Cole (I got told by a relation of Dorothy's about the kids and the marriage to Dorothy).
Thank In Advance For Any Help.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
RC has a "no living persons" policy so details of any persons (wives/children) of the men you mention cannot be given here
Re: Evan - there is no birth registration matching the birth details you give in the March qtr of 1927 but there is another registered in the December qtr 1927.
Was their mothers maiden name Chambers?
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The December 1927 birth I mentioned above died in 1997 in Glamorgan but his birthdate was 9th Nov 1927
Re: Cecil - there is a death in 1995 matching the birth details you give but it can be traced back to a different birth
Re: Beryl - no death in 1952
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Was their mothers maiden name Chambers?
Charles Jones 1902-1965 Married 1926 Ivy Annie Chambers 1903-1934. - Charles Re-Married in about 1943.
I think this is it , unless it was edited in later :)
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Cecil might be a little harder I was told by my grandmother that she can remember him having an argument with her father (when they was at home one Christmas) about him wanting to marry a girl he met during the war I think possibly French/German. I'm not sure if he married her in France/Germany or if it was in the UK or if he married someone completely different,
He was born 1929 so was too young to have served in WW2
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George William's birth was registered as William G Jones (q1 1933)
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The December 1927 birth I mentioned above died in 1997 in Glamorgan but his birthdate was 9th Nov 1927
Re: Cecil - there is a death in 1995 matching the birth details you give but it can be traced back to a different birth
Re: Beryl - no death in 1952
This is the trouble I'm having because i have a ancestry account and the birth and death that was mentioned in my Original post for Evan was off a family tree there but I did have question marks above it because I also had the December 1927/9th nov one.
Cecil defiantly died around 1995 and I believe it's in yorkshire. But as I said before I'm very vague on this one as I have no idea where he went too after he left the family home with the women he wanted to marry.
Beryl defiantly died around 1952 because my grandmother went to her funeral. - she was only about 19/20 when she died.
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Cecil might be a little harder I was told by my grandmother that she can remember him having an argument with her father (when they was at home one Christmas) about him wanting to marry a girl he met during the war I think possibly French/German. I'm not sure if he married her in France/Germany or if it was in the UK or if he married someone completely different,
He was born 1929 so was too young to have served in WW2
I don't know what war it was but that was but that was what my grandmother told me he must of been about 18 at the time.
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George William's birth was registered as William G Jones (q1 1933)
Oh really, my grandmother knew him as George. That makes it more hard then :-\
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He was born 1929 so was too young to have served in WW2
But people faked it! Some were found out....some weren't.
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If he was in France or Germany it would have been WW2
Known as Ken.
The death in Yorkshire in 1995 was for a Charles Kenneth Jones and there is a Charles K Jones birth in 1929 in Liverpool. Without further investigation I would be wary of linking this death to the person you are looking for
If you have access to the BMD register - you may want to consider searching for details of children born to Cecil's marriage
A caution we give everybody - don't believe everything you read in others family trees. Many are badly researched and we recommend you build on your own knowledge and research from that info
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Re: Cecil - suggest you look at the 1955 marriage in Hereford. Details cannot be posted here
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But I defiantly do know that he had 4 children from his first marriage (2 boys and 2 girls I think) and he married a second time 1980 Dorothy E Garroway Cole (I got told by a relation of Dorothy's about the kids and the marriage to Dorothy).
That marriage was Charles Kenneth Jones
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Charles Jones 1902-1965 Married 1926 Ivy Annie Chambers 1903-1934.
Charles Re-Married in about 1943.
- Evan Jack Jones 10.01.1927-2005. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- Cecil Charles Jones 08.05.1929-07.05.1995 - Known as Ken.
- Beryl Jones 1931-1952. - Died without Marrying. - my grandmother stayed in touch with her.
- George William Jones 06.03.1933-1988. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- My Grandmother 1934-.
Have you looked on FreeBMD
CaroleW asked whether mmn Chambers
Birth Reg Kington
The district Kington spans the boundaries of the counties of Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester and Radnorshire
Dec 1927 Evan J
Jun 1929 Cecil C
Mar 1931 Beryl I
Mar 1933 William G
Jun 1934
Is this their mother’s death, married as Ivy A Chambers Sep 1927 to C Jones
Annie I Jones age 31 Jun 1934 Kington Herefordshire Volume: 6a Page: 609
Evan J Jones Mother's Maiden Surname: Chambers
Oct-Nov-Dec 1927 Kington Volume 6a Page 704
Could this be Evan Jack Jones' death entry?
Jack Jones age 78 Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
Sep 2005 Kington Herefordshire, Radnorshire
Register Number: 20D District and Subdistrict: 518/1 Entry Number: 11
Do you know what Beryl's middle initial 'I' stood for ?
Not the correct birth year (1931) but there is this death entry
Iris Beryl Jones age 70 born 16 Mar 1933
Date of Registration: Apr 2003 Bromyard Herefordshire
Register Number: 24C District and Subdistrict: 513/1 Entry Number: 148
Haven't located a birth in Mar qtr. 1933 for Iris B or Iris Beryl Jones on FreeBMD :-\
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He was born 1929 so was too young to have served in WW2
But people faked it! Some were found out....some weren't.
He may well have served in the Occupation Army after WW2
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But I defiantly do know that he had 4 children from his first marriage (2 boys and 2 girls I think) and he married a second time 1980 Dorothy E Garroway Cole (I got told by a relation of Dorothy's about the kids and the marriage to Dorothy).
That marriage was Charles Kenneth Cole
That is what I don't understand because I said that to the person I got the tree off but he said it was deffinatly Cecil Charles which is why I only wrote it down and not put it on my tree.
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Charles Jones 1902-1965 Married 1926 Ivy Annie Chambers 1903-1934.
Charles Re-Married in about 1943.
- Evan Jack Jones 10.01.1927-2005. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- Cecil Charles Jones 08.05.1929-07.05.1995 - Known as Ken.
- Beryl Jones 1931-1952. - Died without Marrying. - my grandmother stayed in touch with her.
- George William Jones 06.03.1933-1988. - Not sure of death date is correct.
- My Grandmother 1934-.
Have you looked on FreeBMD
CaroleW asked whether mmn Chambers
Birth Reg Kington
The district Kington spans the boundaries of the counties of Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester and Radnorshire
Dec 1927 Evan J
Jun 1929 Cecil C
Mar 1931 Beryl I
Mar 1933 William G
Jun 1934
Is this their mother’s death, married as Ivy A Chambers Sep 1927 to C Jones
Annie I Jones age 31 Jun 1934 Kington Herefordshire Volume: 6a Page: 609
Evan J Jones Mother's Maiden Surname: Chambers
Oct-Nov-Dec 1927 Kington Volume 6a Page 704
Could this be Evan Jack Jones' death entry?
Jack Jones age 78 Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
Sep 2005 Kington Herefordshire, Radnorshire
Register Number: 20D District and Subdistrict: 518/1 Entry Number: 11
Do you know what Beryl's middle initial 'I' stood for ?
Not the correct birth year (1931) but there is this death entry
Iris Beryl Jones age 70 born 16 Mar 1933
Date of Registration: Apr 2003 Bromyard Herefordshire
Register Number: 24C District and Subdistrict: 513/1 Entry Number: 148
Haven't located a birth in Mar qtr. 1933 for Iris B or Iris Beryl Jones on FreeBMD :-\
This was the trouble I had with Beryl my nan thought she died in 1952 but was a long time ago so she might of got her mixed up with someone else.
This is the same information I have for Evan Jack but way i can't understand is why his birth is January and the registration is Oct-Dec.
I'm not sure what the I would stand for but i'd assume it was Ivy after her mother. - I don't even know if beryl married that might make her Surname on the death completely different.
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Kelly
Don't be disheartened , you are doing a wonderful thing for your grandmother and I hope we can help.
Just take with a pinch of salt those items on Family Trees. Don't discard them but use them , as you are now , as guideposts to show the way.
And the hardest piece of advice is to also temper what your grandmother says. Her memories are 70 years old , and let me tell you us oldies sometimes mix things around , even when we swear they are gospel. :D Once again use what she says as helpers but be critical at times.
:)
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I have just been looking at the Chambers tree on Ancestry. It says Beryl was born 1931 (correct) and died Kington 1952 (incorrect)
The 1933 birth is shown as GW instead of WG and the death in 1986 as GW
It shows Evan's birth as 10.1.1927 but his birth was registered December qtr 1927
Beryl Jones 1931-1952. - Died without Marrying. - my grandmother stayed in touch with her.
Your gran was born 1934 so would only have been 18 if Beryl died in 1952.
I really think you need to ignore some of the info on the tree or ask the owner to prove their "facts" by producing BMD certs in support of the info they have posted
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Re: Cecil - suggest you look at the 1955 marriage in Hereford. Details cannot be posted here
I know about this one it is a completely different person my grandmother's half-sister (1 of the child from Charles's second marriage). Had this one checked out by Salvation Army but they couldn't find any other Cecil.
As My grandmothers half siblings are also interested in finding him
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I have just been looking at the Chambers tree on Ancestry. It says Beryl was born 1931 (correct) and died Kington 1952 (incorrect)
The 1933 birth is shown as GW instead of WG and the death in 1986 as GW
It shows Evan's birth as 10.1.1927 but his birth was registered December qtr 1927
Beryl Jones 1931-1952. - Died without Marrying. - my grandmother stayed in touch with her.
Your gran was born 1934 so would only have been 18 if Beryl died in 1952.
I really think you need to ignore some of the info on the tree or ask the owner to prove their "facts" by producing BMD certs in support of the info they have posted
Yes this is what I mean. I know Evan Jack went by Jack and I know George/William went by George and my grandmother goes by her middle name also.
Yes I know about Evan's birth which is what I'm confused by because Charles & Ivy married in Sept 1927 - As someone else said earlier.
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Kelly
Don't be disheartened , you are doing a wonderful thing for your grandmother and I hope we can help.
Just take with a pinch of salt those items on Family Trees. Don't discard them but use them , as you are now , as guideposts to show the way.
And the hardest piece of advice is to also temper what your grandmother says. Her memories are 70 years old , and let me tell you us oldies sometimes mix things around , even when we swear they are gospel. :D Once again use what she says as helpers but be critical at times.
:)
Thank You. :)
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I think I may of found Beryl as Ivy Beryl 19.03.1931-2007. :D
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That certainly seems to be a possibility as her birth was registered in the March qtr 1931
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It (Ancestry tree) shows Evan's birth as 10.1.1927 but his birth was registered December qtr 1927
Is the tree owner American? If so, '10.1.1927' would mean '1st October 1927' which would be correct for a Dec qtr registration.
Carol
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Hi CarolA3
Please see reply 2. Death reg shows birthdate as November 1927. That assumes it is the correct death though. Opening post shows possibly 2005 but it appears to have been 1997
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It (Ancestry tree) shows Evan's birth as 10.1.1927 but his birth was registered December qtr 1927
Is the tree owner American? If so, '10.1.1927' would mean '1st October 1927' which would be correct for a Dec qtr registration.
Carol
This is not from the tree owner the Birth says Oct-Nov-Dec, but on a death record it startes that his birth is 10th January 1927. - Why is Jones so hard.
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Why is Jones so hard.
Jones/Smith/Brown are probably the leaders in being the most common surnames.
but on a death record it startes that his birth is 10th January 1927
Where did you get the death info from and what year is shown for his death? Given that you say he may have died in 2005 in your opening post I think you have mistaken a death for an Edward John Jones with that birthyear who died in 2005
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Why is Jones so hard.
Jones/Smith/Brown are probably the leaders in being the most common surnames.
Especially Wales :(
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Why is Jones so hard.
Jones/Smith/Brown are probably the leaders in being the most common surnames.
Especially Wales :(
I have an even harder one soon Jones married a Williams in Wales :'(
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Why is Jones so hard.
Jones/Smith/Brown are probably the leaders in being the most common surnames.
but on a death record it startes that his birth is 10th January 1927
Where did you get the death info from and what year is shown for his death? Given that you say he may have died in 2005 in your opening post I think you have mistaken a death for an Edward John Jones with that birthyear who died in 2005
TBH I find that a little rude. - I found the death on ancestry under the name Jack Jones as Evan was known as Jack I susspected he could of possibly changed his name to this (due to not finding any Evan Jack Jones) but I'm unsure as to if this is correct or not. The one that is for 1997 is for a Evan John Jones not Evan Jack and is in Neath instead of Kingston.
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It seems there's quite a lot of speculative material here, that shows the dangers of following what Online trees say, unless you yourself have the proof. That's not, by the way, intended as a rude comment at all, but rather the feeling I've got after reading carefully the pages, and trying to chart it out, and I think that's rather what CaroleW - who I've personally found very accurate and helpful in the past - intended. I hope you don't object to my first sentence here, but that is my impression.
I wish you the best of luck in this search - if Mum has dementia, she may not be able to help you, but there may still be other relatives, with documentation that can help you build up a chart of KNOWN facts, and perhaps agencies such as the Salvation Army may then be able better to work from that starting point?
People with online trees are often reluctant to provide documentation to others - usually because they haven't got it, and often because they have taken information themselves at face value from other trees.
I, and others, have had relatives hijacked, re-spoused and given additional / different children, often whilst having real children "snatched" into oblivion that way.
Online sources are a good guide or help - but don't provide all the answers, sadly. (I too have been chasing a "Jones" marriage for ages!)
Good luck. I'm sure the finest help is that given on here, for free and for interest. I do hope someone can help you to help your Mum.
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It seems there's quite a lot of speculative material here, that shows the dangers of following what Online trees say, unless you yourself have the proof. That's not, by the way, intended as a rude comment at all, but rather the feeling I've got after reading carefully the pages, and trying to chart it out, and I think that's rather what CaroleW - who I've personally found very accurate and helpful in the past - intended. I hope you don't object to my first sentence here, but that is my impression.
I wish you the best of luck in this search - if Mum has dementia, she may not be able to help you, but there may still be other relatives, with documentation that can help you build up a chart of KNOWN facts, and perhaps agencies such as the Salvation Army may then be able better to work from that starting point?
People with online trees are often reluctant to provide documentation to others - usually because they haven't got it, and often because they have taken information themselves at face value from other trees.
I, and others, have had relatives hijacked, re-spoused and given additional / different children, often whilst having real children "snatched" into oblivion that way.
Online sources are a good guide or help - but don't provide all the answers, sadly. (I too have been chasing a "Jones" marriage for ages!)
Good luck. I'm sure the finest help is that given on here, for free and for interest. I do hope someone can help you to help your Mum.
I never follow online trees I write all the info down on word documents and try and find things out on my own.
We have already tried salvation army and they can't help because they can't find anything.
don't you mean my grandmother?
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I have re-read my reply and cannot for the life of me see what is rude about it
Where did you get the death info from and what year is shown for his death? Given that you say he may have died in 2005 in your opening post I think you have mistaken a death for an Edward John Jones with that birthyear who died in 2005
If you look at the 2005 death entry for Edward John Jones and look at the entry you found for Jack Jones - you will see they not only have the same date of birth but also exactly the same registration number meaning they are one and the same person but not necessarily the one you are looking for. The GRO image is not available to check whether it's a possible mis-transcription
There is also this birth
Births March qtr 1927
Edward J Jones mothers maiden name Baker Kingston (Surrey) 2a 777
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I have re-read my reply and cannot for the life of me see what is rude about it
Where did you get the death info from and what year is shown for his death? Given that you say he may have died in 2005 in your opening post I think you have mistaken a death for an Edward John Jones with that birthyear who died in 2005
If you look at the 2005 death entry for Edward John Jones and look at the entry you found for Jack Jones - you will see they not only have the same date of birth but also exactly the same registration number meaning they are one and the same person but not necessarily the one you are looking for. The GRO image is not available to check whether it's a possible mis-transcription
There is also this birth
Births March qtr 1927
Edward J Jones mothers maiden name Baker Kingston (Surrey) 2a 777
You questioning how I found the info to me makes me feel dumb like I don't know what I'm on about. I find people's families for a living and I thought this page was supposed to help instead it's just making me feel like I can't do my job properly.
I have no idea what you are taking about? How can 2 people with different names be the same person ?? So basically I'm never going to find anything and I should give up that's what it looks like everyone is saying.
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If you look at the 2005 death entry for Edward John Jones and look at the entry you found for Jack Jones - you will see they not only have the same date of birth but also exactly the same registration number meaning they are one and the same person but not necessarily the one you are looking for. The GRO image is not available to check whether it's a possible mis-transcription
There is also this birth
Births March qtr 1927
Edward J Jones mothers maiden name Baker Kingston (Surrey) 2a 777
I have no idea what you are taking about?
How can 2 people with different names be the same person ??
CaroleW is referring to these two death entries which are identical apart from their first names,
which seems to suggest they maybe the same person :-\
Edward John Jones Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
Date of Registration: Sep 2005
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Kington
Inferred County: Herefordshire, Radnorshire
Register Number: 20D
District and Subdistrict: 518/1
Entry Number: 11
Jack Jones Birth Date: 10 Jan 1927
Date of Registration: Sep 2005
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Kington
Inferred County: Herefordshire, Radnorshire
Register Number: 20D
District and Subdistrict: 518/1
Entry Number: 11
Can I ask do have the birth certificates of any of the Jones children mentioned to confirm their
actual birth dates - the reason I'm asking that question is there's also this death entry for a
Jack Jones
Jack Jones Birth Date: 8 Jan 1927
Date of Registration: Aug 1996
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Kidderminster
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Register Number: 29D
District and Subdistrict: 5171
Entry Number: 129
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You questioning how I found the info to me makes me feel dumb like I don't know what I'm on about. I find people's families for a living and I thought this page was supposed to help instead it's just making me feel like I can't do my job properly.
RootsChat is a free website for family history researchers delving into their own family history - it is not ment for "professional researchers" who are charging a fee for research :( This is totally against what this website is about.
Sarah