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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 11:35 GMT (UK)

Title: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 11:35 GMT (UK)
Hello

Looking for info about Amelia White who died and in June 1884. She was in her 79th year according to newspaper report.

Her husband John George White lived on and probably died in same place - but when? Any assistance appreciated.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 17 December 15 12:03 GMT (UK)
There are numerous John George White's at the archives :( 

Could his dad/brother perhaps have been Robert James?  If so, there was a business called R. White & Sons operating somewhere in the Cape during 1904 when they sued someone.

Which newspaper did the report come from?
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 12:35 GMT (UK)
Hi

My friend found on the EGGSA website.

John George was born in 1805 so he probably died shortly after 1884. They came from Cheshire and Liverpool.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 12:37 GMT (UK)
Queenstown free press

Their son in law was Rev Charles Frederick Patten from mission station at Bolotwa
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 17 December 15 14:27 GMT (UK)
After I sent the previous post I decided to explore it further and found the newspaper cutting.  I then went back to the archives and have found three possible John's who died in 1892, 1901 and 1902.  Unfortunately only marriages are on line for St. John's Baptist Church of England, Tembu Location.

I also found a link to a site which gives two children born to Amelia and John - Isabel Maude and Kathleen - however neither of these was married to Charles!  The newspaper reports seem to indicate that they lived at the mission so logic says that John probably remained there after she died, but logic and what actually happened are often two totally different things!

 This obviously requires some more searching  ::)

Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 14:36 GMT (UK)

Thank you

the death in 192 could well be him.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 17 December 15 14:47 GMT (UK)
Here are the details of his death notice.  Unfortunately as it is at the Cape Archives it cannot be ordered through eggsa.  If you send me a pm with your email I shall send you the order form and the email address of the gentleman who works at the Archives.

DEPOT     KAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MOOC                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 6/9/306                                                               
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 1625                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          WHITE, JOHN GEORGE. DEATH NOTICE.                                     
STARTING  18920000                                                             
ENDING    18920000
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 15:00 GMT (UK)
Hi

Amelia and John George's daughter was Louisa - she married Mr Patten. Her duaghter married someone called Cassidy - the place Bethel is mentioned in a letter.

John George was a shipbroker/merchant in Liverpool. This might help identify hin in 1892?
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 17 December 15 15:10 GMT (UK)
Neither of those names were mentioned on the site I found.  Bethel is just outside Stutterheim which is about 110km from Queenstown.

Unfortunately I cannot find his death notice on line so it will have to be ordered from the archives.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 15:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Nookie

Is there a charge?
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 17 December 15 15:26 GMT (UK)
The last time I ordered it was R0-80 per page and something for postage.  I know that they now email them if you ask nicely.

I am not sure what currency you work in, but R0-80 would not buy a box of matches here, so it is really cheap :)
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 17 December 15 15:40 GMT (UK)
Have sent a PM
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Monday 21 December 15 11:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Nookie

Fiund this - any idea where burial could be?

Death
PATTEN.-  Died on t he 2nd May, Mrs. L. PATTEN, at the age of 88 years, widow of the late Rev. C.F. PATTEN, Queenstown, at the residence of her daughter Mrs. CASSIDY, Bethal, Transvaal.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Monday 21 December 15 12:38 GMT (UK)
That Bethal is in the old Transvaal (now Mpumalanga) and is about 200km from Pretoria.  I have not found a gravestone for her, but possibly she was buried on a farm as it looks like her son-in-law was a farmer.  Here is his estate file - showing the full names of their daughter.

DEPOT     TAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MHG                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 7956                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          CASSIDY, HARRY EWART.                                                 
STARTING  19060000                                                             
ENDING    19060000                                                             
REMARKS   SURVIVING SPOUSE KATE MARION LOUISE (BORN PATTEN).                   
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Monday 21 December 15 12:50 GMT (UK)
Here is Kate's estate file.  She died in Natal in 1922. Very interestingly her estate took 41 years to finalize!

DEPOT     NAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 867/1963                                                             
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          CASSIDY, KATE MARIAN LOUISE. (BORN PATTEN). BORN IN BOLOTWA,         
           QUEENSTOWN, CAPE PROVINCE. PRSP HEWERT CASSIDY. NO TRACE - DIED IN   
           1905. DECEASED ESTATE.                                               
STARTING  19220000                                                             
ENDING    19630000   
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: 3sillydogs on Monday 21 December 15 12:59 GMT (UK)
That would be an interesting file to see!!! 

My dad left his estate to us kids with the proviso that my mum had use of it (mainly the house which was paid for and interest bearing investments) until she passed then the estate could be wound up and divided.  Perhaps it was something along those lines.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Monday 21 December 15 13:05 GMT (UK)
Very interesting thank you.

Chales Frederick Patten the reverend at St Johns mission Bolotwa died 1917/18 we think in South Africa. But we gavent found anything for him or his life at the Mission.

Coming back to Mr Cassidt eyc - why would his file etc be worth getting - maybe I am missing something here,

thanks again
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: 3sillydogs on Monday 21 December 15 13:11 GMT (UK)


No just curiosity really, normally an estate can take up to two years, but this one was only finalised some 40 years after his death, would be interesting to see if it was some condition of the will, or were there dissent amongst the heirs for instance :) :)
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Monday 21 December 15 13:14 GMT (UK)
The only real reason for getting his file is to see whether they had children as they would be the White's g/grand children.

Regarding the long time for the estate to be finalized there is a site which states in the little bit that comes up that there was a question of scrip being sold by Kate.  However it just will not down load. You will find it by googling her full name.  Maybe you would have better luck.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Monday 21 December 15 13:22 GMT (UK)
Thank you both - all clear now.

Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 31 December 15 10:11 GMT (UK)
Hi again

Re Rev Charles Frederick Patten at Bolotwa. I was trying to find my source for his death around 1918. But can't re-find it. This what happens when you don't write things down at the time!
Can anyone help?

Also does anyone know if there are burial records for the cemetery at StJohns mission Bolotwa? I suspect that is where Amelia died 1884 is buried.
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Thursday 31 December 15 13:37 GMT (UK)
Cannot off-hand find the information on Rev Patten, but have sent you a pm showing you what I have managed to find on John!
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: hms racker on Thursday 31 December 15 14:19 GMT (UK)
many thanks - sent you a PM
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: irvine 1805 on Friday 23 December 16 11:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Nookie

I am looking for a copy of the death record for John George White died May 1892. Can you help?

many thanks
Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: Nookie on Friday 23 December 16 14:39 GMT (UK)
I have sent you a pm. :)

Title: Re: White - Bolotwa - Queenstown
Post by: irvine 1805 on Monday 26 December 16 09:47 GMT (UK)
Hi

Louisa Patten ms White died in 1929 at the home of her daughter Mrs Cassidy in Bethel. Would there be a death cert for Louisa somewhere  and of course a record of the daughters marriage to Mr Cassidy? :)