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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: escollay on Monday 14 December 15 11:08 GMT (UK)
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Not much to go on with this picture, but any idea of what the uniform relates to?
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Not much to go on I agree. Something tells me it is not Royal Navy but may be a civilian shipping line whose caps imitate the RN. It's a shame we cannot read the name on the cap tally but if RN he should have a bow in the cap tally above his left ear. The trousers look suspiciously as if they have a 'fore and aft' crease rather than five/seven horizontal creased bell bottoms and the badge on the jacket sleeve does not ring any bells at all. Any chance of blowing up the cap to give a hint of the name?
C
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Thanks for the reply. I will try and get a closer image of the hat, a relative currently has it. They always said that he was in the Merchant Navy - I assume this isnt the uniform for the Merchant Navy?
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There isn't or wasn't a common uniform for the merchant navy. Many shipping lines devised their own house style. Lines like P&O tend to mimic the Royal Navy but have sufficient minor differences to save them from being accused of impersonation.
C
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Looks like he's wearing a jacket over his RN winter uniform.
Carol
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Could be RN, helsmans badge on left sleeve?
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Could you give us his full name, date and place of birth?
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Hi, do you have a year for the photograph :)
Frank.
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Not wartime I think, only HMS showed on cap band during WWII.
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Not wartime I think, only HMS showed on cap band during WWII.
Yeah, that's true, that's why I was wondering about a date for it just to discount it really :)
I've tried to enlarge the picture but it doesn't offer anything else, not sure wether he has the cap tally or not to be honest c :)
Frank.
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Could you give us his full name, date and place of birth?
John Francis/Kevin Scollay
19/29 September 1925
Cushendall, co. Antrim
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Not wartime I think, only HMS showed on cap band during WWII.
I would say 1950s, I don't believe he served in WWII.
Yeah, that's true, that's why I was wondering about a date for it just to discount it really :)
I've tried to enlarge the picture but it doesn't offer anything else, not sure wether he has the cap tally or not to be honest c :)
Frank.
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Not wartime I think, only HMS showed on cap band during WWII.
Partly true, But I imagine that for the first three or four months of WW2 the names were still worn on the cap badges.
I think it took that long for the RN to realise that the ships names could help the enemy gather intelligence on deployments?
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Could you give us his full name, date and place of birth?
John Francis/Kevin Scollay
19/29 September 1925
Cushendall, co. Antrim
I searched the available on line Merchant Navy personal records and there is no mention of him. That is not to say he was not a Merchant Seaman, only that if he was the records that are on line, have not survived. This is not unusual as many were destroyed in the 1950's.
For what it's worth, I feel he was MN and the photograph was taken in the 1950's.
All I can advise is that you try and get hold of his form CRS 10. A standard form (CRS 10) relates to the service of individual merchant seamen and lists the ships on which they served with relevant dates.
The CRS 10s give personal details of each seaman; the front page of the service entries includes:
name;
date of birth;
place of birth;
discharge A number;
rank or rating, with relevant certificate details;
details of any other qualifications;
date CRS 10 first page was created;
British Seamen's Identity Card Notations. The entries refer to correspondence and issuing of cards, certificates, applications etc. The originals in general do not survive except where they have been filed in the seaman's pouch.
The continuation pages show:
a list of ships and their official numbers with date and place of engagement;
rank or rating;
F or H (for Foreign or Home trade voyage);
date and place of discharge from the ship;
character grade;
National Insurance contribution code;
Registry clerk's initials and date of the entry;
when ashore the sheet may bear the entry MNRP (Merchant Navy Reserve Pool) with date and place.
This information about service was extracted from ship's logs and crew agreements lodged by ship owners. The information contained in the register is used to verify entitlement to wartime service medals.
The Fifth Register was maintained in a number of parts or sub-series as follows:
Part 1: European origin mainly : covering mainly Europeans and mainly the period from 1941 to approximately 1946, although some late 1940s and 1950s records can also be found. Pieces BT 382/1-2022 and BT 382/3289.
Part 2: European origin mainly: covering mainly Europeans and mainly the period from 1946 to 1972., although some records covering the Second World War period can also be found. From piece BT 382/2023.
These forms are stored alphabetically in blocks of 60 names. So a visit to the national archive is your best move. They are not available on line.
If he was MN his form CRS 10 should be here.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_cr1=bt382%2F2881&_dss=range&_ro=any
if not here.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_cr1=bt382%2F1593&_dss=range&_ro=any
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Thank you for your help - I'll get on it now!
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Good evening,
I would say RN, he is wearing a pea jacket normally known as a reefer in the RN. He also has bell bottoms on not worn by MN as far as i'm aware.
John915
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.......................and I thought it was a donkey jacket.
James
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So did I.
Carol
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Could it be Royal Fleet Auxiliary, although I am not sure what date they were formed.
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Definitely not Royal Navy
RN were never issued with "pea jackets" (coat he is wearing) although we always wished for them rather than the scratchy wool sweaters. To my sources knowledge( stretches back a long time some of the lads are in their 70's ) we were issued with kye (a rich, sweet, warm chocolatey drink served in some navies)and a jumper and told to stamp our feet .....a lot...
Branch (or trade) badges are worn on the right arm and rating badge on left. The badge shown, to my knowledge was never a branch badge. Specialist badges were worn on lower left arm, such as Diver or specialist communications or marksman.
The crease in the trousers are a mythical anomaly
Some say they were because they sailed 7 seas etc. They were only for one thing. To roll them up when they scrubbed the decks and the Navy used to frown upon it as it was not compliant with QRRN (queens regulations for Royal Navy) but it was often overlooked.(thats from the horses mouth my dad, who joined in 1949 RIP)
Cap tally is entirely correct. your "tiddley" bow was always over the left ear, counting the amount of letters on the name including space, and the middle of the name went with the middle of the cap as it was manufactured in four quarters and a crease was formed where it was sewn together.
Some of my sources are saying possibly the Holyhead to Stranraer Ferry, but at this time haven't come back with evidence to support this
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Definitely not Royal Navy
RN were never issued with "pea jackets" (coat he is wearing) although we always wished for them rather than the scratchy wool sweaters. To my sources knowledge( stretches back a long time some of the lads are in their 70's ) we were issued with kye (a rich, sweet, warm chocolatey drink served in some navies)and a jumper and told to stamp our feet .....a lot...
Branch (or trade) badges are worn on the right arm and rating badge on left. The badge shown, to my knowledge was never a branch badge. Specialist badges were worn on lower left arm, such as Diver or specialist communications or marksman.
The crease in the trousers are a mythical anomaly
Some say they were because they sailed 7 seas etc. They were only for one thing. To roll them up when they scrubbed the decks and the Navy used to frown upon it as it was not compliant with QRRN (queens regulations for Royal Navy) but it was often overlooked.(thats from the horses mouth my dad, who joined in 1949 RIP)
Cap tally is entirely correct. your "tiddley" bow was always over the left ear, counting the amount of letters on the name including space, and the middle of the name went with the middle of the cap as it was manufactured in four quarters and a crease was formed where it was sewn together.
Some of my sources are saying possibly the Holyhead to Stranraer Ferry, but at this time haven't come back with evidence to support this
He lived in Cushendall on the north coast of Northern Ireland, so it's possible it was the Larne to Stranraer. I think there maybe have one from ballycastle