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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tracy67 on Tuesday 08 December 15 06:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to find information on Charlotte Sarah Thompson
B:1784 St John the Evangelist Ousebridge Yorkshire, England
M:1802 Budwith, England (John Tindall (convict) B:1779 Willitoft Bubwith Yorkshire, England
D: Charlotte???
D: John died in 1836 Castlereagh NSW Australia
What I am needing help with as I can see if she remarried (on the side I did see a Charlotte Tindall married a Thomas Mansell in Castlereagh NSW in 1839) once again cant find nay death for her under that name either.
So if anyone can help me fill in this gap would be great
Thank you in advance
Tracy67
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Hi there,
Can you please confirm that John TINDALL's wife, Charlotte, came to New South Wales, and if so, the name of her ship of arrival ?
Cheers, JM
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Born 6 July 1820, baptised 6 Sept 1820, at Christ Church C of E, Castlereagh NSW, Charlotte, daughter of John and Charlotte TYNDAL
NSW BDM Vol 1, line 5210, of 1820.
Cheers, JM
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John her husband arrived on Indefatigable ship convict on Sydney cove 26th april 1815, yes dhe did as they had more children when they arrived.
Tracy67
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Yes, thanks.... here's some more info, still using the surname TYNDAL ..... Is this your family?
NSW State Records INDEX for Child Care and Protection.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-education-and-child-welfare-records/index-to-child-care-and-protection/index-to-child-care-and-protection
Charlotte TYNDAL aged 9 years, committal date 27 Jan 1830.
Remarks :
Father John TYNDAL
Petitioner John TYNDAL, Requesting entry of child into orphan school.
Page 129-131 Reel 2776.
From an online image I read: That the said John TYNDAL has been some years a tenant of John MacHenry Esq, has an Emancipation and sometime ago had a paralytic stroke. His wife lives with him. They have four children, William born in the year 1812, George in 1815, John born in 1818, Charlotte born in 1821 and Michael born in 1824. He obtained his emancipation or conditional pardon for helping to make the new road over the mountains; his wife came free.
And on the next page The Child Charlotte TYNDAL was baptised by me but as the registry is at Mr NORTON'S I cannot tell the date. Henry FULTON, Chaplain.
I understand that Ancestry has a partnership arrangement with NSW State Records and some of the archives have been uploaded to Ancestry.
Cheers, JM
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Charlotte TINDAL who married Thomas MANSELL
10 June 1839 was recorded as aged 21 on the Applications to Marry. OOPPPPPSSSS 10 June 1839 is date of the Application to Marry. marriage 15 July 1839.
Thomas Mansell, 38, ex Florentia (2), Life, Ticket of Leave, (39/0589)
and
Charlotte TINDAL 21, ex North Britain, Free/Free,
Rev Henry FULTON at Castlereagh,
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCL-L4M
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZK-C98
Cheers, JM (edit to correct dates, JM mis-read)
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You are saying that charlotte Tindall did remarried after john tindall died in 1836..
Do was i right to say she married Thomas mansell but still cant find in death details on her!!
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Am I .... is the family I listed with the spelling TYNDAL your family? Afterall, the same Reverend baptised Charlotte in 1820, but by 1830 without his registry at hand, has her year of birth as 1821, and she was placed in the orphanage. So, perhaps it was that Charlotte born 1820 who married in 1839 .... and Rev FULTON simply recorded her MOTHER's ship of arrival....
There's a marriage 3 Jan 1848 for a Charlotte TINDALL, and John STEWART, Sydney NSW....
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZ3-6MC
There's many lasses named Charlotte with surname as variation of TYNDAL in NSW in the decades before the gold rushes....
Re lack of death registration. Civil registration commenced 1 March 1856. Initially it was the responsibility of the head of the household to report the death to the police, who could then determine if it was a sudden death, needing an inquest or at least an enquiry.... If there was an inquest/enquiry, and it was not in Sydney CBD where many people lived (and therefore died so the system of registration was frequently in use) , then the police would issue an interim order permitting the burial. Consequently many 'rural' (including of course Castlereagh, Evan, and even Parramatta, Liverpool etc) districts did not receive the rest of the paperwork for the registration to proceed. The administrative system was eventually sorted, but not before WWI when it became driven by pre-printed forms, and funeral directors became responsible for the documentation....
ADD
By recording the bride's age as 21, the Rev would not have needed to ask the bride to find a parent to give consent, as at age 21 the bride was old enough to give her own consent to her own marriage. It actually suggests to me that the bride's mum was no longer in the district .... perhaps deceased. Do you have info on the youngest of John's children listed in the petition that put Charlotte in the Orphanage.... (Born 1824, so by 1839 he could well have 'left home' and be making his own way in life....
Cheers, JM
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You have given me a few things to look up so i will confirm once i have looked.
Thanks
Tracy67
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:) I may have further info on TYNDAL if that helps.
Cheers, JM
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John her husband arrived on Indefatigable ship convict on Sydney cove 26th april 1815,
yes she did as they had more children when they arrived.
John TINDALL/TINDAL/TINDELL/TINDALE/TYNDAL who was married to Charlotte with children William, George, John, Charlotte & Michael. Did NOT arrive on the Indefatigable (2) in 1815.
If this is your family then John arrived on the Indian in 1810 :D
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Which child of John & Charlotte is your ancestor?
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There's other children too
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/firstfamily950c.html?id=Tindall1736522296
Cheers, JM
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D: John died in 1836 Castlereagh NSW Australia
NSW BDM online INDEX has John TINDAL aged 54, burial Volume 20, line 663, 31 October 1836.
Which cemetery? Have you found an inscription, and does it mention Charlotte his wife .... have you viewed the church register, does it mention his ship of arrival ... many C of E burials do mention the ship of arrival?
Cheers, JM
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Re the 1839 application to marry (MANSELL - TINDALE). The groom is noted as a Widower, and the bride as a Spinster, to me this is pointing to John's daughter Charlotte, rather than John's Widow Charlotte.
Cheers, JM
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I have been looking back, far to many conflicts I cant work this out !!
There are to many family trees saying different things, births marriages and even deaths don't match up, dates and name changes don't help
I have over 2000 on my tree and this is the section I cant seem to work out, as I am doing both sides of my family and Tindall, Tindal, Tindale are the mixed up family, sorry to say. Far to many William, John and Charlotte, Mary!!!!!
Don't know what to do now I am lost all the information I'm receiving seems right and they I get so far and then theirs a clash???
Can anyone help me
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Can you answer my question in reply #11?
Which child of John & Charlotte is your ancestor?
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snap :)
So may I add to Merlin's question....
There are to many family trees saying different things, births marriages and even deaths don't match up, dates and name changes don't help
Instead of looking at other people's family trees and noticing their conflicting information, do you have any NSW BDM certificates for your ancestors on your John and Charlotte line.
Cheers, JM
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I am from John Tindall side (convict)
Daug Hannah t tyndall married james wheeler sharland
Daug Matilda born as wheeler married Henry Newham
Daug Mary Louisa Newham Married John Florance
Son Jack Florance born as John married Florence Holloway uk (Jack died at war iraq)
Daug Queenie florence Florance married Harold Winifred bennett Beckhaus WHO are my grand parents.
Daug Marlene Beckhaus married Graham Osborne
Daug ME
That's a long list
Thanks
Tracy
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Forgot to mention I have Mary Louisa Newham birth certificate and I have matilda and henry marriage certificate
jack birth certificate john florance and florence holloway marriage
Have grand parents birth marriage death certificates
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Hi there,
I take it that you have confirmed/validated your tree back to Matilda, born 1828, and you wish to confirm/validate back earlier than her parents (James and Hannah).
I can see that various independent transcribers have, over the past decades, noted that her baptism is under the SURNAME of Wheeler. I wonder if Rev FULTON’s register has been checked for other baptisms (not in that family), to compare where either parent has more than one given name.
Anyway, I can confirm that my offline resources include:
Hannah TYNDALL married James W SHARLAND in 1822 (see later this post for the NSW BDM references)
Correspondence NSW Col Secretary’s Office
28 January 1822 and 6 February 1822, James SHARLAND ex the ship Somersetshire of 1814 sought permission to marry Hannah TYNDAL at Castlereagh.
18 Feb 1822
James Waller SHARLAND, Prisoner, signed and Hannah TYNDALL, Free, X mark were married 18 February 1822 by Banns, witnesses William CLARK and MaryAnn FIELD (both X mark). Marriage registered Christ Church C of E, by Rev. Henry FULTON. (Note that I am looking at a transcription of that registration, NOT at an image of the register).
13 Oct 1828
Matilda, daughter of James WHEELER and Hannah SHARLAND,of Evan, was baptised 10 November 1828 by Henry FULTON, registered Christ Church C of E, Castlereagh. James Wheeler noted as a Carpenter. (Again, I am looking at a transcription, NOT at an image of the register)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCT-49K
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTX4-CP8
NSW BDM Volume 12, Line 282, 1828. Indexed under WHEELER, with Hannah as (Sharland)
I think the marriage of James and Hannah is Volume 155 line 187, 1822 and also Col 3B, line 2882. The NSW BDM index is under SHARLAND = TYNDALL.
Here's a live link to the NSW Col Secretary's papers 1788-1825.
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/default.htm (oops, added this link later, as this is the link I use)
The index is excellent, particularly now that NSW State Records has a current partnership with Ancestry and many of those papers listed in the index have been imaged and are available online. Ancestry is likely available via many public libraries for those without a subscription. The index includes entries under the names of ships of arrival eg Somersetshire, and under the clergy by name too.... eg under Henry FULTON Snr there's this INDEX entry "1822 Jul 29 Re case of James Sherland and his desire that he be assigned to his wife, a free woman" (Add there's an 'e' between the 'h' and the 'r' on the index :) :) ).... Perhaps that would be your Matilda's parents... I think it would be worthwhile to follow up those NSW State Records, with an inspection of the image on (Reel 6017; 4/5783 pp.109-10)
The indexes of those 1820s records were prepared in the 1900s (Add, for the NSW BDMs mainly in the 1930s) so more than 100 years after the documents were created. There will be ink bleeds, there will be poor hand-writing to decipher, and torn pages etc.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/colonial-secretary/index-to-the-colonial-secretarys-papers-1788-1825 Included in that document is the following statement :
Digital copies of the Colonial Secretary’s Papers 1788-1825 can now be viewed free of charge on Ancestry.com - you will be asked to complete a guest registration but access is free.
Cheers, JM
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I am also a descendant of John Tindall and Charlotte Thompson... there must be tens of thousands of us by now, I think.
Charlotte Thompson Tindall did not marry Thomas Mansell. The application for marriage has her arriving in the colony on a different ship. Our Charlotte arrived on "Friends" in 1811. Charlotte Tindall is also listed on an 1841 Census with her family at Penrith.
She and her son, George, were also charged in 1842 (not guilty) of stealing pork.
However, what happened to her is a mystery. I can't find any record of a death for her.
Charlotte and John Tindall's daughter, Charlotte, is my 3X great-grandmother. Charlotte jnr married John Bowles in 1839.
If there is anyone with a burial record for Charlotte Thompson Tindall... we would love to know the details.
Kind regards
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Here's a Charlotte ex the vessel North Britain :)
Charlotte TINDAL who married Thomas MANSELL 10 June 1839 was recorded as aged 21 on the Applications to Marry. OOPPPPPSSSS 10 June 1839 is date of the Application to Marry. marriage 15 July 1839.
Thomas Mansell, 38, ex Florentia (2), Life, Ticket of Leave, (39/0589)
and
Charlotte TINDAL 21, ex North Britain, Free/Free,
Rev Henry FULTON at Castlereagh,
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCL-L4M
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZK-C98
Cheers, JM (edit to correct dates, JM mis-read)
:) I am not a descendant.
JM
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Thanks, JM
The Charlotte Tindall on the North Britain, and married Thomas Mansell, is not Charlotte Thompson who married John Tindall.
I am looking for the death of the latter Charlotte Thompson Tindall... who arrived in 1811 and was already married to John Tindall prior to his transportation.
Cheers
Anne