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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 15:15 GMT (UK)

Title: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 15:15 GMT (UK)
 I'm stuck with this... :(

Ada May LING, Born Rochford Essex in the April/May/June Quarter of 1897, - at some stage Married a James SCOTT. Their daughter was born in Rochford, Essex in 1930, and Registered with Surname, SCOTT.

I have looked, but can't find either a Birth Entry or a Marriage for James SCOTT. I've found a Death Entry for him:

Name: James Scott

Birth Date: abt 1892

Date of Registration: Sep 1965 Age at Death: 73

Registration district: Weston-super-Mare Inferred County: Somerset

Volume: 7c Page: 312.

And so perhaps a Marriage never took place? Or he was already Married to someone else? Can anyone else on here see something that is eluding me?

Cheers, Romilly.


Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Ayashi on Friday 04 December 15 15:51 GMT (UK)
I wasn't expecting there to be multiple Ada LINGs marrying either! Are you sure she wasn't already married herself? Does Ada die under the SCOTT name? Was there only the one child?

It's unfortunate with a name like "James Scott" he could have come from anywhere.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 16:07 GMT (UK)
I wasn't expecting there to be multiple Ada LINGs marrying either! Are you sure she wasn't already married herself? Does Ada die under the SCOTT name? Was there only the one child?

It's unfortunate with a name like "James Scott" he could have come from anywhere.

Once Ada May Ling set up home with James Scott, she was known as 'May Scott'. She and James Scott remained in Rochford, Essex until the mid 1930's, when they moved to Weston-Super-Mare.

James Scott was a shop keeper, - (and that is definately his Death Entry.)

Yes, I had thought that 'Ling' would be relatively easy too!

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 16:21 GMT (UK)

There is this Marriage:

First name(s)    ADA
Last name    LING
Marriage quarter    1
Marriage year    1925
Registration month    -
MarriageFinder™    ADA LING married
ALBERT CARTER
Spouse's last name    CARTER
District    WEST HAM
District number    -
County    Essex
Country    England
Volume    4A
Page    12
Record set    England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category    Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory    Marriages & divorces
Collections from    Great Britain

But that's not for an Ada MAY Ling...

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 04 December 15 16:22 GMT (UK)
1939 register has his date of birth as 31st October 1888
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 16:36 GMT (UK)
1939 register has his date of birth as 31st October 1888

Yes, I had noticed that one... but had discounted because the DOB didn't fit with the Death Entry(!)

However, I see that the 1939 Register Entry says:

'James    Scott    1888
May (Ada) Scott is also on this record'.

And so presumably May Scott just took a guess at his age when he died in 1965!

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 04 December 15 16:42 GMT (UK)
Her birth 20th May 1897 - it does fit the qtr  ;D
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 16:44 GMT (UK)

Can you see a Place of Birth for him at all Rosie?

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 04 December 15 16:51 GMT (UK)
Sorry, It does not give place of birth in 1939.  I only got the births by playing with the search.

I can't see a marriage anywhere.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 16:55 GMT (UK)
Sorry, It does not give place of birth in 1939.  I only got the births by playing with the search.

I can't see a marriage anywhere.

Many thanks for looking Rosie, - much appreciated.

I suspect that they never Married, but have no idea why not(!)

James Scott appears in the Trade Directories for Essex from about 1925 onwards. He had several Chemist's Shops there, but moved to Weston in the mid 1930's.

Romilly.


Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth :-(
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 04 December 15 17:41 GMT (UK)
You are probably right they did not marry. I wonder of he trained to be a chemist  :-\
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth :-(
Post by: Romilly on Friday 04 December 15 22:45 GMT (UK)
You are probably right they did not marry. I wonder of he trained to be a chemist  :-\

I don't think so...

He apparantly moved from Essex to Weston-Super-Mare in about 1933 when he sold several chemist shops and bought a sweet shop/newsagents there.

I can't find a definate Birth for him in Essex in 1888 though:-(

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 05 December 15 08:15 GMT (UK)
There is a James Scott bn Scotland c1888 (parents James & Jessie) in Essex in 1891/1901 and later but no evidence to show he is who you are after
RG12/1372 f111 p16

Rosie
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: chinny on Saturday 05 December 15 09:32 GMT (UK)
Hi saw your post and i've been on Familysearch.org and found these are these the person you looking for?https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajames%20%2Bsurname%3Ascott%20%2Bbirth_place%3AEssex~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1892-1895~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3A"Ada%20May"~%20%2Bsp.
         Good luck with you search :)
                            Kevin
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 09:34 GMT (UK)

Many thanks for looking Kevin, - but that Link doesn't work for me:-(

One further snippet... apparantly James Scott had a sister called Elsie Violet Scott.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 05 December 15 10:29 GMT (UK)
Copy of the link from Kevin...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01glz/ 
Deirdre
 
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 10:33 GMT (UK)

Many thanks Deirdre, and thanks again Kevin for looking.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth:-(
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 05 December 15 10:38 GMT (UK)
I don't suppose it helps but there's a marriage in West Ham for an ADA M Z LING in June quarter 1921 to a WALTER E GIBSON... can't see a Gibson - Scott marriage though.

Edited to add... just found a birth for an Ada Z M Ling - sorry!
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 11:40 GMT (UK)

I can't help wondering whether there's some sort of name change involved here...(!)

James Scott apparantly never signed for anything, and his Widow, (May Scott) destroyed all paperwork before she died... Family rumour thinks that James Scott may have been of Jewish descent, - but there is no evidence to support this.

Romilly :o
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 05 December 15 12:44 GMT (UK)
Did Elsie Violet marry  :-\  Do you know anything about her.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 12:59 GMT (UK)
Did Elsie Violet marry  :-\  Do you know anything about her.

I'll go through my notes, and see what I can find.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 05 December 15 13:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you Romilly  :)
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 19:04 GMT (UK)

Ok, - I'm looking at this for a friend, - who is completely stuck with it! (I can see why).

Unfortunately, Elsie Violet was a LING, - sister of May (Ada) SCOTT.

Apparantly the James Scott concerned did not have a Scottish background, and so that rules out the most likely contenders. I am inclined to think that it was an 'adopted' name... It's certainly very difficult to find anyone who fits the name and the timeframe:-(((

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 05 December 15 20:36 GMT (UK)
Hi, can others help strip and break down this theory.
Going by the last post if Ada did marry someone who was Jewish then a contender my be this marriage in 1918 in Hackney. Ada Ling /Frank J Wiseman. Ada would have been either late 20 or 21 Now looking for births from 1880-90 of Frank Wisemans  offers 1 contender Frank JOHN Wiseman JUN 1883 Edmonton. As a matter of interest were Ada's parents Ellen Ward and Elijah Ling.

John
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 20:53 GMT (UK)

Yes John,

Parents are correct.

That's very interesting! I wonder why the name change? Bankruptcy?

Romilly
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 05 December 15 21:49 GMT (UK)
But the marriage is online. Ada is a widow, maiden name was Gabell. Plus the Wisemans are on electoral rolls in Hackney, and appear to be findable in the 1939 Register as well.

Where were James Scott's shops? In Rochford? Southend?
In the Essex directories I can see James Scott, confectioner of 1143 London Road, Leigh, and further away, James Scott, confectioner in Purfleet. No likely chemist.

Then James is at 40 Boulevard, Weston super Mare - 1939 Somerset Directory. That is the address they are at in the 39 Register.
Could he have had a family link with Weston? See no evidence, to be honest.

Ellen Ling, Ada's mum, did she marry again to William Fance, and stay in Rochford? There are a couple of entries of a James Scott on the electoral rolls in Rochford, around 1926-7. 1926 at "Renelta", Ashingdon Road. Also there, Alexander Scott. Both only have the parliamentary vote. Don't know who else is there, if anyone (list is alphabetical) May not even be your James though.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 21:59 GMT (UK)
Ada May Ling, = May Scott.

Her Maiden name was Ling. Not sure about the Gabell/Wiseman Marriages...

That's interesting about the Essex Businesses, - the Trade Directories for Essex have James Scott as the owner of several 'Cash Chemists'.

Yes, The Boulevard, Weston-super-Mare is correct, and he owned a Confectioners/Tobacconists there.
Are the Electoral Roll Entries on Ancestry?

Thanks so much for looking, - I'm feeling very stuck with this...

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 05 December 15 22:12 GMT (UK)
Hi
No, the Rochford electorals are on findmypast. Not sure they are much use. Hoping for a definite address for James Scott. Were any of the chemists in Rochford?
The only other thing I turned up was that on 23 June 1942 Ernest Bramah Smith of Flat 2 124 Holland Park Avenue London died at 40 Boulevard Weston super Mare. Probate to The Public Trustee and Lucy Maisie Smith widow.
That doesn't seem to help at all either.
This is a fiendishly tough problem!
John
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 05 December 15 22:38 GMT (UK)
I thought that name was familiar, so I googled it
Ernest Bramah Smith, better known as Ernest Bramah, the author. Wrote the Max Carrados short stories, the blind detective. I remember reading some of those umpteen years ago.
Wonder why he died at a confectioners shop in Weston super Mare?
Or had the Scotts gone by then?
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 05 December 15 22:50 GMT (UK)

From Wikipedia:

'Ernest Bramah (20 March 1868[1] – 27 June 1942), born Ernest Brammah Smith, was an English author.[2] He published 21 books and numerous short stories and features. His humorous works were ranked with Jerome K Jerome, and W.W. Jacobs, his detective stories with Conan Doyle, his politico-science fiction with H.G. Wells and his supernatural stories with Algernon Blackwood. George Orwell acknowledged that Bramah's book, What Might Have Been, influenced his Nineteen Eighty-Four. Bramah created the characters Kai Lung and Max Carrados.

Bramah was a recluse who did not give the public details of his personal life. He died at age 74 in London'.

It doesn't say anything about him dying in Weston-super-Mare.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 05 December 15 23:16 GMT (UK)
Hi
Sorry to have gone off on a tangent.
His death is registered June 1942 in Weston
Smith, Ernest B.
age 74

The Probate Calendar says he died at 40 Boulevard.
Newspaper reports - haven't got the full details - say Ernest Bramah/Ernest Bramah Smith, the novelist, has died in Somerset, aged 74
John

EDIT: In fact, in 1939 there seem to be two households at number 40 - your Scotts, and the Ashmans (2 of them)
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Sunday 06 December 15 09:49 GMT (UK)

No probs Jonw, - and thanks for taking the time and trouble to look.

I've been off at all sorts of tangents looking for this chap... :o :o

He certainly isn't straightforward!

Romilly.
Title: Re: Can't find a Marriage or Birth for James SCOTT :-(
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 15 December 15 22:38 GMT (UK)
Hi
No, the Rochford electorals are on findmypast. Not sure they are much use. Hoping for a definite address for James Scott. Were any of the chemists in Rochford?
John

Hi Again,

I am looking at this for a friend, - (James Scott was her Grandfather).

She says that:
'He had several shops in Southend in the 1920s.  One was a confectioners, and I think 2 were chemist shops.  I found them in Kelly directories in Southend library some years ago; they were listed as 'Cash Chemists'.

I've tried to find a James Scott with an Alexander Scott on the 1911 Census for Essex, - but can't see them...

Romilly :(