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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Wendy68 on Saturday 28 November 15 09:46 GMT (UK)
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Hi there
A few years ago, I found out that my grandad whose name I thought was Barry Lemoir was really Percy Letchford.
He met my nan Edith Wetton on stage and passed his stage name off as his real name. Under the name of Lemoir, he married her in London in 1922. He was 10 years my nans senior and was 32 at the time.
They had 3 children Kenneth, Valerie (my mum) and Royston.
While performing on stage during their time together, they were using the stage names Barry & Kitty Kendall.
While my mum was seiously ill with rheumatic fever aged 11, her parents split up ( unsure if nan had found out the truth about him at that stage)
What eventually came to light was that my grandad was already married with 5 children when he married my nan so he was a bigamist.
I did hear mentioned that his father was supposed to have been a colonel in the Indian army. (Letchford) My grandad did seemed to be dark skinned but ive not found any evidence to back this up yet.
Because of the web of lies, its very difficult to get answers. What happened to his other family?
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Possibly, this is his first marriage?
September qtr 1904
Epsom Registration District vol 2a, page 83
Letchford, Percy Horace
+ and on the same page +
Champion, Florence Ada
Hammond, Amy
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Under the name of Lemoir, he married her in London in 1922. He was 10 years my nans senior and was 32 at the time.
If the age was correct then born abt 1890 so too young to have married in 1904.
There are records of a Percy with wife Amy going to Canada and serving as a soldier - different man?
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Possibly, this is his first marriage?
September qtr 1904
Epsom Registration District vol 2a, page 83
Letchford, Percy Horace
+ and on the same page +
Champion, Florence Ada
Hammond, Amy
This Percy must have married Amy Hammond as the other bride Florence Ada married the other groom Arthur John Horton.
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Barry Percy Lemoir died in Bristol in December 1947 aged 55, so born about 1892.
Marriage to Edith Wetton in Southwark was 1924 rather than 1922.
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Do you know where he was born?
There is a Percy with father Percy born Kent abt 1889. Father Percy is a mariner/bargeman in 1901 Rochester Kent.
When were the 5 children born? He doesn't have that much time to marry and have 5 before marrying again given his age.
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What eventually came to light was that my grandad was already married with 5 children when he married my nan so he was a bigamist.
How did this come to light exactly - what evidence is there?
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It seems to me that every Perc* Letchford born in England pre 1900 can be ruled out through their death registrations.
So tweaking things a bit and picking up on the India hunch - could he in fact be Percy Thomas LUETCHFORD born in Sialkot, Bengal on 14 June 1891 and baptised there on 17 July 1891? Parents Edward (sergeant in Manchester Regiment) and Jane.
This Percy was in Surrey by 1901 as an adopted son of Benjamin and Charlotte Parfitt (he may have been related to them as nephew).
He married in Eastbourne in 1913 I think to Lucy E Ward. They may have altered their surname to Letchford at around the time of the war (during which Percy served as a private in the Somerset Regiment, being discharged in 1919). There are 6 Letchford/Ward births on FreeBMD 1915-1930, one in Reading which may be unrelated, but the other five in Islington and Hendon, and a London electoral roll for a Percy and Lucy Letchford in Islington in 1924. If these are the right people the dates raise the possibility that the two families overlapped and he may have led a double life for a time, or Lucy may have had children with someone else after his departure.
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So tweaking things a bit and picking up on the India hunch - could he in fact be Percy Thomas LUETCHFORD born in Sialkot, Bengal on 14 June 1891 and baptised there on 17 July 1891? Parents Edward (sergeant in Manchester Regiment) and Jane.
I am encouraged to see that Barry Lemoir's birthdate was recorded in the 1939 Register as 14 June 1892 - so a year out, but a perfect match on day & month of birth with PT Luetchford.
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I think that the Letchford child born in Reading in 1915 was the son of Henry C Letchford and Ivy Ward, who married in Henley district in 1913. The death of Harry Letchford aged 23 s/o of Mr and Mrs Henry C Letchford of Reading was reported in the Reading Mercury of 14 October 1939.
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In the 1929 electoral roll, Lucy Emily Letchford is in Pinner (Hendon). No sign of Percy, but with her is a Rose Eleanor Ward who may be a sister or other relative of hers.
We then see in 1939 a marriage in Hendon between Lucy E Letchford and William Collins.
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I think that the Letchford child born in Reading in 1915 was the son of Henry C Letchford and Ivy Ward, who married in Henley district in 1913. The death of Harry Letchford aged 23 s/o of Mr and Mrs Henry C Letchford of Reading was reported in the Reading Mercury of 14 October 1939.
Yes I had wondered whether he was a product of that marriage. So that leaves the five London-born Letchford/Ward children, of which three were registered after Barry Lemoir's "marriage" in 1924.
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It looks as though Percy's mother Jane Luetchford died, soon after his birth, on 7 July 1891 aged 31, and was buried on 10 July 1891 in Sialkot, Bengal.
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avm228
Yes Barry Percy Lemoir died in Bristol in Dec 1947 aged 55 (I think from consumption of the lung) He did marry Edith Gertrude Wetton (my nan) You may be right about the year 1924
Milliepede.....
Ive no idea when or where the children in his other family were born so you could well be right about the families overlapping.
How it all came to light was, it may have been after my grandads death, but my uncle Kenneth answered the door to someone who resembled his dad who was claiming to be his half brother!!!! My uncle slammed the door in his face refusing to believe the strangers story of his dads other family but a photograph was given which clearly showed his dad with a woman and 4 or 5 children and the name Letchford was given. Ive no idea who has the photo now but the information came from my cousin Jane (Ken's daughter).
The first photograph below shows Barry Lemoir/Percy Letchford with his wife Edith in 1924
The second one was taken in 1930 of my mum valerie ( babe in arms) with her parents and her brother Ken.
The third is my Mum Valerie aged 85 and her brother Roy aged 83.
Their elder brother Ken passed away in the early 90's.
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Looking around at the family - there's this freemason's membership entry of interest
Edward Luetchford, Soldier
Initiation 2 Feb 1891
Age 32
Wahab or Benevolent Lodge, Sealkote
There's also a probate register entry for an Edward Luetchford, army pensioner of 2 Piggott St, Chorlton-on-Medlock, died 11 Sept 1911. Probate to Charles Joyce, Sergeant Major, 3rd Manchester Regiment. Effects £320. FreeBMD gives his age at death as 50, so fits the possibility for Percy's father.
I've also found him in 1911, with a second wife and family (and an Indian connection) and a connection back to Surrey
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWBP-F9R
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Took a bit of finding, but here's 1901, in Ashton under Lyme barracks
E Leutchford 40 - colour sergeant, b Croyden
E Leutchford 28 - b India
T Leutchford 6 - son, b Ashton under Lyme
F Leutchford 5 - daughter, b Manchester
J Leutchford 2 - son, b Ashton under Lyme
RG13, 3799, 54, 9
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Edward Luetchford's Army records give a great deal of biographical information:
Birthplace Croydon. Claimed to be aged 23 on attestation in December 1881. Occupation: groom.
11 Aug 1879: marriage to Jane Coppin at Croydon Register Office
25 May 1881: birth of daughter Rose Etta May
25 May 1882: birth of daughter May Charlotte
27 July 1887: birth of daughter Violet Lucy
29 May 1888: birth of son Edward Victor
01 May 1889: birth of daughter Dorothy Alice
14 Jun 1891: birth of son Percy Thomas
07 July 1891: death of wife Jane from enteric fever
02 Aug 1893: marriage to Nellie Devine at the register office, Ashton under Lyme
04 Aug 1894: birth of son Thomas
23 Dec 1896: birth of daughter Florence
05 Feb 1905: birth of daughter Irene Josephine
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Jane Coppin and Edward Luetchford have turned up on Rootschat before:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gkp/
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Tracing Percy's "adoptive parents" Benjamin & Charlotte Parfitt from the 1901 census, their likely marriage is Benjamin Daniel Parfitt to Charlotte COPPIN, Dec qtr 1876 Croydon.
1871 census shows that Charlotte was an older sister of Jane Luetchford nee Coppin.
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Thanks Wendy for explaining what happened, quite a story isn't it :)
There was a big overlap between the couples if I am seeing it right with a child born to each wife in 1926 and 1930.
Don't suppose there was ever an official divorce as that would be known about. First wife was also a bigamist if she remarried before Percy had died. Yes quite a story!
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There are other Luetchford offspring as well as those on the army records
Nellie/Ellen Devine also came from an army family - she's in Ashton barracks in 1891
It all seems to fit, but not sure how exactly to prove Percy is Barry. it would be interesting to see the birth certs for the Luetchford/ward children born after the second "marriage" and how Lucy describes herself on her second marriage. The entry doesn't look like that of a divorced woman, which tends to have both maiden and first married surname
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Also the two sets of children that are born in the same year are in different parts of the country so it's not like he just popped down the road.
When was his second marriage again - 1924? Was he described as a bachelor do we know?
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I don't think we know much about the 1924 marriage certificate.
Barry Le Moir (spelt thus) is listed as an actor in various productions (both London and touring) in the 1920s. As lifestyles go, especially with touring involved, it is one of those which might make it possible to get away with a double life.
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Yes that's true, touring the country with his profession is different to someone who worked in an office every day in the same place.
There are a lot of certificates that would be very interesting here.
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Yes, it is written on their marriage certificate as 'bachelor'.
It certainly looks like he was leading a double life!!!!
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Yes, it is written on their marriage certificate as 'bachelor'.
It certainly looks like he was leading a double life!!!!
What more does it say (even if it was a pack of lies!). Anything for name & occupation of his father? Who were the witnesses?
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Groom's occupation- Actor - age 32
Brides occupation - Actress - age 22
My mum has the marriage certificate so I will get more information when I see her next Tuesday. 😊
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I have just discovered your post of 2 yrs ago, and was very interested to read your discovery.
Percy Thomas Luetchford was my great uncle, my grandmother Violet Lucy was his older sister.
It would seem that after the death of Jane from Typhoid following the birth of her 7th child,in Sialkot in what was then east Bengal, Edward returned to the UK and the surviving children were "adopted" by Janes sisters, Lucy Edwards took in my grandmother and auntie May, and Charlotte your grandfather. I was intrigued by your photos of I assume Percy. I have several photos of people with my grandmother from the 20s and30s and I would dearly love to put names to faces! Is there some way I could send these to you to see if you could identify them?
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I have just discovered your post of 2 yrs ago, and was very interested to read your discovery.
Percy Thomas Luetchford was my great uncle, my grandmother Violet Lucy was his older sister.
It would seem that after the death of Jane from Typhoid following the birth of her 7th child,in Sialkot in what was then east Bengal, Edward returned to the UK and the surviving children were "adopted" by Janes sisters, Lucy Edwards took in my grandmother and auntie May, and Charlotte your grandfather. I was intrigued by your photos of I assume Percy. I have several photos of people with my grandmother from the 20s and30s and I would dearly love to put names to faces! Is there some way I could send these to you to see if you could identify them?
If you click on Wendy68 (name at the left of the post) you will see Wendy68's profile page. There is an option "Send personal message". Wendy68 was last on Rootschat over a year ago, but will be notified by e-mail about the message.
All the best
Philip
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I have just discovered your post of 2 yrs ago, and was very interested to read your discovery.
Percy Thomas Luetchford was my great uncle, my grandmother Violet Lucy was his older sister.
It would seem that after the death of Jane from Typhoid following the birth of her 7th child,in Sialkot in what was then east Bengal, Edward returned to the UK and the surviving children were "adopted" by Janes sisters, Lucy Edwards took in my grandmother and auntie May, and Charlotte your grandfather. I was intrigued by your photos of I assume Percy. I have several photos of people with my grandmother from the 20s and30s and I would dearly love to put names to faces! Is there some way I could send these to you to see if you could identify them?
Hi Jungle beast
Yes, the photos are of who you know as Percy. He was my grandad and I knew him as Barry Le Moir. (changed his name when he married my nan Edith to hide his bigamy.)
Please get in touch. It would be wonderful to share information with you!!
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Sorry I missed this exciting thread!
I've posted about this family previously, being descended from Thomas Luetchford and Harriet Wood - Percy Thomas Luetchford's great grandparents, and had corresponded with jungle beast considerably as she and her sister pieced together the two families of Percy's father, Edward Luetchford.
The 1921 census finds Percy in Westmorland, working as an actor, but not with his wife and kids, though Percy junior and Basil appear to be lodging with an Ernest and Minnie Hird in the same parish, Hincaster, Sedgwick in the Kendal Registration District; Percy is lodging with Jonas James Robinson, a coal dealer and his wife Hannah. Wife Lucy appears to be in the parish of Ainsdale, Lancashire Ormskirk Reg District, transcribed as Lucy Litchford (born Norfolk 1890). And having double checked, I've now found another Percy Born 1892 India in the parish of Altcar, Southport, but this time transcribed as Letchford. According to ParLoc, this parish is just over 5 miles away from Ormskirk. [I have only bought the Percy Thomas record in Cumberland so far - I'm rationing my expenditure ;D]
So one take-away from this is that it looks like Percy and Basil belong to the same parents, and it is most likely that those parents are Percyy Thomas and Lucy Emily Ward.
Beyond that, all I can say is that Percy is consistently elusive.
JULIAN