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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 13:31 GMT (UK)

Title: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 13:31 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am struggling to find Bridget Norton on the above census records.

In 1901 she is known as Bridget Stone and has married Samuel Stone. I also cannot find any record of marriage between the two though?

The census 1901 + 1911 state that she was born circa 1854. i know this is definitely her as she is the mother of Henry Norton born 1891. i have his birth certificate which has no father listed and his mother as just Bridget Norton (no maiden name.) i also have his Baptism record which states he changed his surname to Stone when marrying in 1920- i also have this marriage certificate which states his father as Samuel Stone (deceased) but on the 1901 census Samuel Stone is his step father and he is known as Henry Norton and still Henry Norton 1911.

Finding Henry was hard enough as i knew him as Henry Stone- when i made the break through and found out he was actually Norton i thought it would be easy to work back from there but Bridget has proved impossible for me to find.

I have found a baptism record which could possibly be her- born Liverpool 1854, Father Henry Norton and mother Sarah- but then there is no record of her in any census 1861-1891!

On Henry's birth cert in 1891 it states he was born at 36, 14 ho (?) Brook Street, Liverpool. But he was born after the 1891 census was taken and when searching that street on the 1891 census Bridget does not appear on that street!

I don't know if i am over thinking everything now i can't find any record of her but having her first child at 37 and then later having a second child with Samuel Stone (Catherine Stone born 1898) at 44 just seems quite old to me?

Also going back to Henry's marriage certificate, one of the witnesses is Arthur J Norton (i am 99% sure that it says Arthur) so that is possibly a relation of Bridget?

i hope someone can help me

Thanks

Stephen
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 19 November 15 13:59 GMT (UK)
Quote
I have found a baptism record which could possibly be her- born Liverpool 1854, Father Henry Norton and mother Sarah- but then there is no record of her in any census 1861-1891!

Have you found these possible parents in 1861 etc?  It's possible Bridget is there but under a nick name or something  :-\

Any other baptisms for those same parents ie siblings?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 19 November 15 14:00 GMT (UK)
What date was the baptism? 

There are 2 births recorded for that name in Liverpool 1854 - one registered Mar and one Dec.

There's a Catholic baptism in Liverpool parents Michael and Mary 22 Mar 1854
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 19 November 15 14:09 GMT (UK)
I see from Henry Norton's Catholic baptism (14 July 1891, born 10 June 1891) that his godmother was a Maria (or Mary) Riley.  Possibly worth keeping a note of her for later reference.

Have you traced a death for Samuel Stone's wife Margaret (whom he was with in 1891)?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 14:11 GMT (UK)
I haven't been able to find those possbile parents on any census records? it is very frustrating

The baptism with Father as Henry Stone is birth 25th Sept bap 5 Oct 1854- only reason i felt this could be the strongest possibility is that she called her son Henry?

The other baptism record has Father as Michael and mother as Mary 22 Mar 1854.

going back to Arthur Norton on her sons marriage marriage cert. there is a  baptism record for a Arthur Norton born 1856 to Michael Norton but his mother is down as Margaret- and again they don't seem to appear on any census record- Arthur appears on census records from 1881-1911. but i don't know for sure if he is related to Bridget or not?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 19 November 15 14:11 GMT (UK)
This sounds a bit mad so please feel free to disprove but looking at Annie Stone who is 13 in 1901.

In 1891 she is 3 with Samuel Stone and Margaret Stone - was Margaret his first wife or is Margaret actually the same person as Bridget?  Birth year and place the same.

 :D
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 19 November 15 14:15 GMT (UK)
This sounds a bit mad so please feel free to disprove but looking at Annie Stone who is 13 in 1901.

In 1891 she is 3 with Samuel Stone and Margaret Stone - was Margaret his first wife or is Margaret actually the same person as Bridget?  Birth year and place the same.

 :D

Samuel Stone (clerk, 25) married Margaret Hamill (19) in Liverpool on 24 Nov 1870.

Both resident at 34 Strawberry Bank.

His father: Richard Stone, miller.
Her father: James Hamill, joiner.


Newlyweds together in 1871 (with "mother-in-law" Martha) at RG10/3847/57/22.
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 14:20 GMT (UK)
I have a record of a Margaret Smith marrying a Samuel Stone in 1875. there is a record of death for a Margaret Stone in apr-jun 1893 aged 40
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 19 November 15 14:22 GMT (UK)
It is confusing isn't it. 

Could it be Bridget and her parents appear on Irish census in her earlier years?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 14:24 GMT (UK)
i have in my tree Samuel Stone marrying a Margaret Hamill. i haven't found record of her death but i then have him marrying Margaret Smith 1875. then by 1901 he is married to Bridget Norton!
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 19 November 15 14:28 GMT (UK)
How old was the first Margaret? **

Death Jun 1872 W Derby
Stone Margaret 21

** yes that fits she was 19 in 1870 how sad  :(
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 17:19 GMT (UK)
It is confusing isn't it. 

Could it be Bridget and her parents appear on Irish census in her earlier years?

Thanks for your help so far Milliepede and avm228.

I am not sure but there has to be some reason why she does not appear on any census records, surely? But Bridget NORTON does not appear on the 1891 census but has a child in Liverpool in 1891 and the census records in 1901 and 1911 state she was born in Liverpool.

I am trying to add Henry NORTON's birth certificate but when i click on 'attachments and other options' it isn't giving me the option to add an image? does any one know how i would add it?

On there it says her profession was Employee in Bag Warehouse and the 1911 census has her profession as bag mender.
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 19 November 15 17:23 GMT (UK)
You can attach images on some boards but not on others.  You can't attach a whole birth certificate in any event, for copyright reasons.

There should be two addresses on Henry's 1891 birth certificate - place of birth (which you've mentioned) and residence of the informant (column 7).  Are those two addresses the same?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 19 November 15 17:27 GMT (UK)
column 7 says Bridget Norton, Mother, and i think it says 39(or 30),14 ho Brook Street

not sure what that house number means?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: jacquelineve on Thursday 19 November 15 18:35 GMT (UK)
Age out...but may be worth taking note of..

1881 census Liverpool RG11/3609   folio 30   page5

Margaret  Naughton  head   unm.   45                    Ireland
Mary        ............... sister unm.   35                     .........
Bridget    ............... niece  unm.   19   bag mkr      Liverpool

Jackie
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: jacquelineve on Thursday 19 November 15 18:55 GMT (UK)
1871 census Liverpool  RG10/3770  folio 127   page 2

Bridget Nocton 13   born Ireland

(Same street as in 1881)

Jackie
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: rolnora on Friday 20 November 15 09:31 GMT (UK)
Bridget's baptism has her mother's maiden name as Cocklin.
Could this be another child born to Henry and Sarah .........

Sarah Norton born 26 July 1852, bap 1 Aug 1852, St Patrick.
Transcript has Sarah as Coughton but image looks like Coughlin
Godparents Michael and Eliza Nowlan
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Friday 20 November 15 10:47 GMT (UK)
Age out...but may be worth taking note of..

1881 census Liverpool RG11/3609   folio 30   page5

Margaret  Naughton  head   unm.   45                    Ireland
Mary        ............... sister unm.   35                     .........
Bridget    ............... niece  unm.   19   bag mkr      Liverpool

Jackie

Hi,

That is interesting- took note of that, thanks.
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Friday 20 November 15 10:57 GMT (UK)
Bridget's baptism has her mother's maiden name as Cocklin.
Could this be another child born to Henry and Sarah .........

Sarah Norton born 26 July 1852, bap 1 Aug 1852, St Patrick.
Transcript has Sarah as Coughton but image looks like Coughlin
Godparents Michael and Eliza Nowlan

Hi,

i do remember saving that in my shoe box, problem is i can't find anything from 1861 to confirm anything about Bridget! she just seems to disappear for about 30-40 years!!

Also, does anyone have a theory why there is no record of Bridget's marriage to Samuel Stone? On their child together Catherine Stone baptism record in 1898 it has her as Bridget Stone (olim Norton.) Judging that his previous wife Margaret died about 1893 it must be between those dates but i can not find any record of a marriage between the two?
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Wednesday 28 June 17 11:02 BST (UK)
Hi,

i know this post is old but after a bit of a break i have come back to the illusive Bridget Norton.

Going off her sons (Henry Norton aka Stone) marriage cert. he had a witness named Arthur Norton which i believe is her brother. I am now more than certain that her father was Michael Norton and not Henry etc.

Bridget born abt 1854
Arthur born abt 1856

They both have catholic baptisms at St Marys, Lancashire. The problem is the first names are latinised as they were Catholics. Very confusing.

Parents Michael Norton and Mary (Mclinn) on Bridgets
           Michaelis Norton and Margaritae (Macklin) on Arthurs

But still with this information i cannot find Bridget (and now Arthur) in any of the census records in the subject title and record of her marriage to Samuel Stone (his 3rd marriage.)

Sorry if this is not making sense?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Stephen
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Wednesday 28 June 17 11:18 BST (UK)
Sorry, just to add...

On Arthur Nortons Catholic marriage cert.(m Sarah Joyce- July 1881) it lists his parents as  Michaelis Naughton and Mariae Naughton.

Thanks

Stephen
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: jacquelineve on Thursday 29 June 17 16:23 BST (UK)
Stephen
             Just to add to the confusion...

1861 census Liverpool  RG9/2665  folio59  page 56

Thomas Rothwell        30   Ireland
Mary     Rothwell         38  Liverpool
Mary Ann Houghton    10   ...........
Bridget     ...........       8   ............
Arthur     ..............     6    ............ (Houghton mis-transcribed?

1871 Liverpool RG10/3770  folio 54    page 50
All named Rothwell -Mary widow-Bridget has become Bessie

Can't find a Rothwell Houghton(var) marriage or Houghton birth reg's

Two Michael Norton deaths reg at Liverpool -both Dec.qtrs-1855 and 1857

Jackie
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: jacquelineve on Friday 30 June 17 10:21 BST (UK)
These birth registrations appear to tie up with Rothwell-Houghton family in 1861 census Liverpool

Norton
Mary Ann 1851-McLynn
Bridget    1854-McLinn
Arthur     1856-Macklin

1881 census still living in Liverpool (Rothwell)

Jackie
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: josey on Friday 30 June 17 12:02 BST (UK)
Great work, Jackie; looks like you may have cracked it!!

I looked at all the marriages of a Thomas Rothwell to a Mary in Lancashire, no McLynn or variations either. Maybe no (official) marriage.....

ADDED:
Quote
author=jacquelineve link=topic=735576.msg6273820#msg6273820 date=149874978
Two Michael Norton deaths reg at Liverpool -both Dec.qtrs-1855 and 1857

NORTON, MICHAEL       Age 65     
GRO Reference: 1855  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 171
NORTON, MICHAEL       Age 36     
GRO Reference: 1857  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 113
So 1857 most likely.
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Friday 30 June 17 15:29 BST (UK)
Thanks so so much. This is amazing and terrifying that i may have found them at the same time!!

But it also throws up so many more questions!!

A quick check seems to verify they have a sister Mary Ann Norton born 1851- i have just found her marriage banns to a Thomas Henry Johnson on 16 Sept 1879 and it states her father as Michael Norton. It doesn't mention him being deceased as it also doesn't on Arthur's catholic marriage cert. though i'm not sure if they would mentioned that back then? They are living at Great Crosshall Street at the time according to this.

Also i just double checked Bridget's baptism record and her Godfather is a gentleman called William Macklin.

It does seem way too much of a coincidence the names and age of the siblings on these census records for it not to be them but why would they be called Rothwell on these census records for so many years but then when Arthur appears on 1891 census as  Head he is back to Norton and Bridget calls herself Norton on her sons birth certificate 1891.

Again, Thank You for all your help

Stephen

Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: Dundee on Friday 30 June 17 16:59 BST (UK)
It is just a census, it doesn't mean they actually ever used or were commonly known by that surname.  Some families gave the individual surnames of the children if they were from multiple relationships but many couldn't be bothered giving that information to the enumerator.
Title: Re: Census 1861-1891 Bridget Norton
Post by: pimplezoo on Thursday 06 July 17 19:06 BST (UK)
Hi

I recently received Bridget and Arthur's birth certificates. It has their mother as
Mary Norton late Conlin formerly McLinn (Macklin on Arthur's)

Does that mean her maiden name is McLinn/Macklin and she is a widow married name Conlin?

Thanks

Stephen