RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lisa Skeels on Tuesday 17 November 15 10:22 GMT (UK)

Title: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Tuesday 17 November 15 10:22 GMT (UK)
Hello all

I am looking for any information regarding the murderer Alfred Bligh who was released from prison in February 1897 and who possibly used the alias Fred Hart to board a ship to Canada.

Before anyone looks, the story is not a pleasant one and I have lots of documentary evidence of what he did but, I have seen a piece of research , the narrative of which follows on from a Times article, which suggests the alias.  There is more than enough evidence to suggest the alias is more than likely and some which suggests that it probably did happen but I cannot find where this suggestion might have originated.  I have been in contact (via a third person) with the originator of the original research but they cannot, at the moment, remember their sources.

The local libraries have been very helpful but do not have reports of Bligh absconding.  There is no way the name could have been linked without some research into the family history.  Fred Hart does appear on the passenger list for the Laurentian in March 1897, Alfred Bligh who was released into the care of his brother in law does not appear on subequent UK Census records.

Can anyone help?

Thanks, Lisa

Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 17 November 15 11:21 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=717471.0

Just for reference your previous post on this in April this year
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 17 November 15 11:27 GMT (UK)
Haven't been able to find a Times article around 1897. Have checked The Times and Sunday Times.

The Times has a one para item in 1886 re. the murders.
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Tuesday 17 November 15 11:31 GMT (UK)
Thank you for checking Hanes Teulu.  I was really hoping there would be.

I thought I had finished with this story but I do have a very good reason for wanting to tie down the link, if possible.

Lisa
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: isobelw on Tuesday 17 November 15 15:15 GMT (UK)
There doesn't appear to be a birth for a Fred Hart in Norfolk that matches the details for the 'Fred' described in the Canadian obituary, which might add weight to the suggestion that this person didn't start out with that name. The Fred who died in obituary does appear to match with the person who immigrated in 1897 ( month and date given in the obituary match though year ( 1899)  is out by two years, however he does give year of immigration as 1897 in the 1911 census).
Seems odd that there is no sign of him in 1901 census, nor is there a 1903 marriage listed in the Ontario BMD records on Ancestry.
Isobel
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Tuesday 17 November 15 15:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks for checking Isobel.

I have traced Fred Hart's movements in Canada however, he does not appear to be connected on trees I have seen to Alfred Bligh.  The John Mellor he was released into the custody of was married to Ann Hart she was the illegitimate daughter of Alfred's mother Susan(nah) Hart(t).

I am pretty sure they are one and the same, but it would be great to see evidence of where the original link came from.

According to the Berkshire Records Office, the file is closed until 2016, not sure if more information will come out after then but I would imagine it will only deal with the trial and Broadmoor.

Lisa
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 17 November 15 22:22 GMT (UK)
Just picking up the other thread too

I believe this is them 1906 as Hall, I think it reads as Hart

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHV7-R3F

36, Qu'Appelle, Saskatchewan
Fred Hall    Head    M    50    England
George Mellor    Hired Man    M    28    England
Annie Hall    Wife    F    22    England
Edith E. Hall    Daughter    F    2    England
Alice Hall    Daughter    F    27 Jul 3mos    

another link

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census06/



Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 17 November 15 23:12 GMT (UK)
George Mellor with mother Annie 1911 with dates out somewhat, seems to be the same chap 1921

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMPD-DJW

1921 RG 31; Folder Number: 152; Census Place: Kindersley, Saskatchewan; Page Number: 20

George c 1875, mother Annie came out 1912
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Wednesday 18 November 15 06:32 GMT (UK)
Hello Willsy

Thanks for checking that out.  As I said, I know what happened to Fred Hart in Canada what I need to find is proof that Alfred Bligh and Fred Hart are the same person, somehow.

I have available all the information I need on Canada, thanks again though, I hope I don't sound ungrateful.

Lisa
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Wednesday 18 November 15 06:42 GMT (UK)
From 10 years ago.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANCSGEN/2005-08/1124653960

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Wednesday 18 November 15 07:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Malky

That's the piece of research I am referring to.  I have contacted the originator and they cannot remember, at the moment where the piece about Alfred/Fred came from.  I was hoping that perhaps someone else might be able to find something.

Lisa
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 18 November 15 07:53 GMT (UK)
I just wondered if George Mellor was related to John Mellor
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: kathb on Wednesday 18 November 15 09:35 GMT (UK)
Hello Lisa. I followed through on the George Mellor that Willsy highlighted in the post.
The 1891 census for Ashton under Lyne Ref:RG12/3280/81/24 shows John and Ann Mellor. In the household is their son George Mellor aged 12. I would say that this is a VERY strong connection with the Hart, Mellor and Bligh links. The age of George also matches with that stated on the 1906 Canadian census when he is described as 28. This is perhaps the real link to prove that Afred Bligh assumed the name Fred Hart.
Regards
Kathb
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 18 November 15 10:04 GMT (UK)
Re. Malky's link to "10 years ago"

That link quotes The Times article, including the letter written by Alfred Bligh. But I cannot find any reference in the Times to the 12 July and 30 July articles. Other newspapers reported the stay of execution.

As for the reference to the release to brother in law etc, no article in The Times but will recheck other newspapers.
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Gan Yam on Wednesday 18 November 15 21:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Lisa

Not sure whether you've seen the photos of Fred Hart and of Fred and his wife Annie, daughter Alice and grandchildren on Anc*.  The Fred mentioned was born in Norfolk and died Canada in 1949. The photos are attached to Alfred Bligh.  Could this be the Fred you're looking for.  Unfortunately I don't have a sub at the moment so cant see any more.

There is also a newspaper article on the murders in  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser (18 May 1886) that mentions his wife had a daughter called Alice Turner who he wrote to and also mentions Alice's aunt Sarah (This of course could be misreporting and Alice could be his sister in law Anne).  Only picking that up from the bits you can see on Newpaper archives when you search (again no sub)  So possibly the connection may come from family left after the deed.  Alice must have been distressed about her little sisters and may be kept track of Alfred (Fred) after his release?

Don't know whether any of this might be a lead?

good luck

J
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 18 November 15 22:46 GMT (UK)
I reckon this is Alice Gan Yam

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXJ-X1WD

1881 with John and Sarah Mann

Marriage John Mann and Sarah Turner 1875

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NF1Z-DTR
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: Lisa Skeels on Thursday 19 November 15 09:17 GMT (UK)
Willsy - I am SO sorry!!!

I cannot believe I missed the Mellor link.  Ann and John Mellor did, indeed have a son, George, whose birth was registered in 1879.

I do think that other members of the family may have gone to Canada and I do have a member of the Hart family checking things out for me in Canada.  I think this is certainly further evidence of the link - thank you all so much.  However, if anyone does come across anything else written down ......

Thanks again

Lisa
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: willsy on Thursday 19 November 15 09:46 GMT (UK)
Please keep us informed too!

Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: ERB on Wednesday 14 November 18 18:45 GMT (UK)
I've picked up on this same topic looking for support in a slightly different way; link as follows

Thank you

Eric

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=803643.new#new
Title: Re: Murderer - Alfred Bligh
Post by: pizzapizza77 on Friday 08 July 22 12:23 BST (UK)
Hi,
I am a relative of Alfred Bligh and Lisa. If anyone is interested in any additional information please message me.