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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Scrumper on Wednesday 11 November 15 14:43 GMT (UK)
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The 1939 Register help topic is continued from 1939 Register up and running (Part 2) (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734467.0)
Still not finding a lot of people ???
Found my granddad in 1939 in the Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955. He's in Hinstock Road, Birmingham.
I look up Hinstock Road in the 1939 Register, and some houses are there, but not many and not the one I want. What's the problem here?
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I look up Hinstock Road in the 1939 Register, and some houses are there, but not many and not the one I want. What's the problem here?
Same problem a lot of us are having and that FindMyPast isn't admitting to! Part of my grandparent's road is definitely missing as well, and of course, they live in the missing part!
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I look up Hinstock Road in the 1939 Register, and some houses are there, but not many and not the one I want. What's the problem here?
Same problem a lot of us are having and that FindMyPast isn't admitting to! Part of my grandparent's road is definitely missing as well, and of course, they live in the missing part!
SNAP! >:( I found my grandparents - with a long lost great aunt - on the 1939 London electoral register in Harrow at the address I expected to find them, so they lived there before and after this 1939 Register but not only do none of them show up on the person search but neither does their house number show up on the address search. The road is included, but the number is not. I emailed FindMyPast to query this over a week ago and, after trying to fob me off with the usual standard rely (i.e. you're not looking properly) they promised to look into it and get back to me. Apparently my patience would be gratefully appreciated! I've still not heard back - and to be honest I don't expect to.
I appreciate the fact that this was a massive undertaking on their part but having promised so much, its been very disappointing - and their reaction to our queries has been wanting, to say the least.
To add insult to injury, after I finally went in yesterday and purchased some pages showing some family I had managed to locate, today I received an email from them basically congratulating me on spending my money and inviting me to spend more by purchasing a bespoke coffee table book of my 1939 pages!!
I suppose this is the world we live in now...
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Found my granddad in 1939 in the Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955. He's in Hinstock Road, Birmingham.
I look up Hinstock Road in the 1939 Register, and some houses are there, but not many and not the one I want. What's the problem here?
Hard to tell whether a bunch of records have been missed out, or are actually there but mistranscibed so are difficult to find.
Frustrating for now, but hopefully will be ironed out in time...
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this is a big "if"
having seen quite a few entries at TNA yesterday, if the street is listed as "ditto" on the schedule(and quite a few on some pages are) you may not find it. The transcribers transcribe what they see.
may not explain all missing entries but could do for some.
What registration district is the street in? could it be in part of another district?
What's your grandfathers name and year of birth and we can try to have a look for you?
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I have searched by district and then by DOB for some of my missing lot and still cannot find them. As said, down to bad transcribing or some houses were not transcribed for the "1939 census", shall we say.
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It's hard to know when to give up (for the time being!) on finding someone, or whether to keep plugging away with different search methods until they turn up....
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Well I have William Jack Taylor, born 6 Feb 1894, his wife Constance Maud Taylor born 13 Feb 1894. William died in 1978 in Chichester and Connie in 1993 in the same area. They had married in 1921 in Stambridge, Essex, where they both originated but William was of Luton by then, he was a miller. So they could be anywhere in the UK in 1939, have looked and looked under DOB, first and surname variants and nothing yet.
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Well I've tried every method I can think of and can't find my grandparents and I know exactly where they were living.
I've searched:
Using just names (not a very common one)
Using names of both plus dates of birth
Using surnames and just the borough
Using first names and borough
Using first names and dates of birth
Searching the whole of their road.
When doing the last I realised that their immediate next door neighbours on both sides were also missing and from letters I have I know they were definitely there in 1939. I did find a next door but one neighbour whose name I recognised, so it looks if at least 3 houses have been missed out.
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Well I have William Jack Taylor, born 6 Feb 1894, his wife Constance Maud Taylor born 13 Feb 1894. William died in 1978 in Chichester and Connie in 1993 in the same area. They had married in 1921 in Stambridge, Essex, where they both originated but William was of Luton by then, he was a miller. So they could be anywhere in the UK in 1939, have looked and looked under DOB, first and surname variants and nothing yet.
There is a William Jack Taylor showing on the Royal Artillery attestations in 1938 & 1939 on FindMyPast. There is no information on his age or place of residence though. Would your WJT have been too old to be in the RA at this time, I see he was in WW1 :-\
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Well I have William Jack Taylor, born 6 Feb 1894, his wife Constance Maud Taylor born 13 Feb 1894. William died in 1978 in Chichester and Connie in 1993 in the same area. They had married in 1921 in Stambridge, Essex, where they both originated but William was of Luton by then, he was a miller. So they could be anywhere in the UK in 1939, have looked and looked under DOB, first and surname variants and nothing yet.
There is a William Jack Taylor showing on the Royal Artillery attestations in 1938 & 1939 on FindMyPast. There is no information on his age or place of residence though. Would your WJT have been too old to be in the RA at this time, I see he was in WW1 :-\
Thanks for the heads up, shall check that. He was 45 in 1939. I did hear my great grandad was a WW2 volunteer as well from one of his younger daughters who is still alive, and he was 48 in 1939.
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For missing people it could be a good idea to put the forename in the surname box and the surname in the forename box. So instead of John Smith try Smith John.
I finally found one of my relatives who had this happen to him although strangely he's the only one with the reference (33 who's visible) who's had this happen to him. :o
Although to make it worse his surname, which is now his forename, is spelled wrong as well! ;D
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Just had a more helpful response from the FindMyPast customer service team. They have referred my specific issue (a missing stretch of street) to the technical team for investigation.
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Just had a more helpful response from the FindMyPast customer service team. They have referred my specific issue (a missing stretch of street) to the technical team for investigation.
How did you manage to get them to do that? I keep getting a standard reply!
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I gave them an extract from a 1938 directory showing the 10 missing householders and information about some of them who were known still to be there after 1939.
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Is there a way of following up the notes in the last column? On some entries I have it says "see page.." or "further details on page..."
Would that info have been copied or would it only be on the original document, and if so where could it be viewed?
Matt
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I gave them an extract from a 1938 directory showing the 10 missing householders and information about some of them who were known still to be there after 1939.
I did a similar thing with my 'missing' grandparents in Harrow: sent them the details of the 1939 electoral roll containing their names.
I got the same response - that they'd passed it to the technical team to look into. However, that was nearly a week ago and I haven't heard back from them (other than to try and sell me the coffee table book of course!).
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Hi Matt
It would appear that the notes in the last column have various meanings and no-one from HSCIC has come forward with a concise explanation for all of them.
Staff at FindMyPast have no idea, they have only digitised and transcribed the data, they didn't work with the actual register with up to 1991.
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this is a big "if"
having seen quite a few entries at TNA yesterday, if the street is listed as "ditto" on the schedule(and quite a few on some pages are) you may not find it. The transcribers transcribe what they see.
may not explain all missing entries but could do for some.
What registration district is the street in? could it be in part of another district?
What's your grandfathers name and year of birth and we can try to have a look for you?
Ditto ::) Is that indicating that the teams were not familiar with that expression, or that the teams were not permitted to include the original line that each "ditto" referred back to, .... what if the document had only used the '' or had ticked or had written as above ......
In other words, did the transcribers literally copy word by word without putting into context?
So, has anyone searched for the street as though its actual name was/is Ditto and if so, does that 'time out' due to the huge popularity of that street name.
Cheers, JM (A transcriber from the last century, where we would replace the ditto with the actual words to which it referred, as a standard practice).
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For missing people it could be a good idea to put the forename in the surname box and the surname in the forename box
That's a good suggestion. An exact search for Jones as a first name produces 2090 hits
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Hi Matt
It would appear that the notes in the last column have various meanings and no-one from HSCIC has come forward with a concise explanation for all of them.
Staff at FindMyPast have no idea, they have only digitised and transcribed the data, they didn't work with the actual register with up to 1991.
Hi dawnsh
I agree the comments must have various meanings. I was at TNA on Saturday when I found (some of) my ancestors and relatives and I asked the staff there about the comments. I spoke to two different people about these comments and neither had any idea about what they related to, and one suggested asking Findmypast. I hope there are not pages or bits missing in these records and it would definitely be nice for Findmypast to let us know what these comments refer to.
Matt
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I've only purchased one record. The address is "ditto" but on the transcription the street is named. Both residents and street address are as I expected them to be.
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What amazes me is how people's expectations have changed.
Back in the days of visiting archives if a "new" record was released we did not expect the staff to be able to answer our questions about what the abbreviations meant and where this road was or that annotation could be found, we worked it out by ourselves over time by looking at more records as they came available.
Now people expect all the questions to be answered on a plate so all they have to do is add the records to their tree like completing a jigsaw puzzle.
The 1939 National Registration has been widely available for a week, given time as more and more people download records and more records are opened answers will become apparent.
When it becomes part of the subscription service (as history tells us it will) we will all be able to check things out for ourselves and techniques will develop.
In the meantime some of the answers are available at the National Archives where records in the RG 28 series may give the answers to some of the questions.
See for example http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ggy/
We should not expect everything to be handed to us on a plate but we should still do research on the records we are interested in.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi JM
I do not know what instructions were given to the transcribers but you can do a free person search where the street is called "ditto" and there are 1569 results.
Dawn
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It would appear that people are still confused over this 1939 thing! ;D
1. It was not a census! ::)
I do wish people would stop calling it the "1939 census"!
That just confuses others as to what to expect.
2. It was not arranged by Registration District! ::)
It was arranged by Local Councils (as they existed in 1939) - Urban District Councils, Rural District Councils, Metropolitan Borough Councils, County Borough, etc.
A different entity from Registration Districts! ;D
My own family, in North Somerset, are to be found either in Portishead Urban District, or Long Ashton Rural District. Normally I would never search "Long Ashton"!
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Am I right in assuming that you entered everyone who normally lived at your address, whether or not they were there at the time, unless they had already enlisted and were in Army barracks or had been evacuated? So if you were on holiday you were entered at your home address? I've seen a few references to "Perhaps he was away from home that night."
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I shall be following Guy's advice and will have a look at the handbook in RG28 tomorrow
Watch this space...
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Am I right in assuming that you entered everyone who normally lived at your address, whether or not they were there at the time, unless they had already enlisted and were in Army barracks or had been evacuated? So if you were on holiday you were entered at your home address? I've seen a few references to "Perhaps he was away from home that night."
I have looked at the address at which I know that the husband was an officer in the Merchant Navy. The wife is shown as being resident. But the husband appears not to be listed.
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If you were not at home on Friday 29 September 1939 (away on holiday) you would not have been able to complete a form for collection on the Sunday or Monday for the issue of registration cards.
In theory you should have been recorded away from home as the early evacuees were.
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So did that mean some registration/identity cards were issued with the wrong address, or were they filled in correctly when actually issued?
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Am I right in assuming that you entered everyone who normally lived at your address, whether or not they were there at the time, unless they had already enlisted and were in Army barracks or had been evacuated? So if you were on holiday you were entered at your home address? I've seen a few references to "Perhaps he was away from home that night."
I have looked at the address at which I know that the husband was an officer in the Merchant Navy. The wife is shown as being resident. But the husband appears not to be listed.
I wonder if that is what happened to my cousin Horace Vincent. I have tried every way to find him. He was a fitter by trade and served in the Navy in WW1. I have medal index for him in WW2 in the merchant navy. Would he have joined up so early?
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It would appear that people are still confused over this 1939 thing! ;D
1. It was not a census! ::)
I do wish people would stop calling it the "1939 census"!
That just confuses others as to what to expect.
To be pedantic it was a census as a census is an official count or survey and the 1939 National Registration was certainly an official count or survey
However like the Domesday Book, the 1939 National Registration does not include the same particulars as a modern decennial census and it did not take place under the same regulations as the decennial census.
Cheers
Guy
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It would appear that people are still confused over this 1939 thing! ;D
1. It was not a census! ::)
I do wish people would stop calling it the "1939 census"!
That just confuses others as to what to expect.
2. It was not arranged by Registration District! ::)
What is wrong with naming it a 1939 census? As Guy said to be pedantic it was a census as it was an official count. It listed address, names, occupations, who was there that day and gave DOB's which census did not give, but 1939 does not give POB's (Place of births) like 1851-1921 censuses did.
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Quoting from The National Archives:
Whilst the 1939 Register is not a census, it is arranged along similar lines and includes similar, if less detailed, information.
See also:
http://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/1939-register-census-census/
"The 1939 Register - When is a 'census' not a census?
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So the governement don't call it a census (thankfully, otherwise it probably wouldn't have seen the light of day until 2040 - if ever!).
The dictionary defines a census as "an official enumeration of the population, with details as to age, sex, occupation, etc. " for which it seems to fit the bill fine.
Maybe if it was called census with a small 'c' that would be OK? ;)
As to "other's expectations" being confused, there are various flavours of census (compare 1841 with 1911 and everything in between). This is just another variation.
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Doesn't really matter whether it's "officially" a census or not, does it? I don't really mind what people call it...
It's similar to the earlier censuses in a lot of ways, with the slight downside of birthplaces not being recorded, but the bonus of having dates of birth to compare against the death index.
I've learned so much from the 1939 register so far, and I've barely begun...
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In my mind,the difference is this:
A census is a snapshot of who was where at midnight on a specified day (e.g. 31st March 1901).
The 1939 Register, taken on 29th September 1939, also contains lots of changes, that were added up to 1991. Such as changes in surname.
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Yes, that's a good way of explaining it
I love the changeable elements of the 1939 register, it's helped me find out what happened to so many people, e.g. people who married/remarried after 1939. I've tied up so many loose ends re when/where people died. Makes my tree feel so much more complete!
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I managed to find my grans older half brother's life once he was sent back to London after his mum died in 1930. His Durham born stepdad, my great grandad remarried and the stepson was surplus to requirements so sent to relatives back in London. He was right under my nose all the time as I already knew all his mums siblings and where they lived, but looked at one of them on the electoral rolls and found grans half brother in 1936 living with his uncle in Greenwich. Sometimes they are right under your nose all the time.
The 1939 register has paid dividends.
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Just to revisit a topic covered in the second iteration of this thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734467.msg5799930#msg5799930 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734467.msg5799930#msg5799930) regarding the 4-letter codes. The list linked to seems to be the FIRST THREE letters of a batch of codes allocated for each area, with the fourth being sequential, A through to Z. To give the examples for mine:
AFBD - Chelsea - [In the table as AFA]
AGPB - Fulham - [AGA]
AMPO - Kensington - [AMA]
WOUD - Weston-super-Mare - [WOT]
So using Chelseas as an example, I suspect that someone in Chelsea could be anything between AFAA (as listed) and AFFZ (as AFG is the next area on the list).
Obviously, this is based on a small sample.
With regard to ID cards, for my grand father's which I have, the card bears the number of the four-letter code above, the schedule number (household) and schedule sub number (person within the household. So ABCD-123-1 .... where ABCD is the four letter code, where 123 is the household number within that borough/Reg.Dist/Sub Dist and where 1 is the person ID within the household.
This seems to hold true for a few ID guards that Google Images displayed.
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I haven't been able to find my mother's brother Jack born 1916. He should have been living with his parents but there were only his parents living in the family home.
I think he was probably still in the UK but with a transcription problem.
I have learnt something I didn't know in that there was a 6 month compulsory military training :-
"During the 1930s some men still chose to enter the armed forces after leaving school and in 1937 there were 200,000 soldiers in the British army. The government knew that this was not enough to fight a war with Germany and in April 1939 introduced the Military Training Act. The terms of the act meant that all men between the ages of 20 and 21 had to register for six months' military training. At the same time a list of 'reserved occupations' was published. This listed occupations that were essential to the war effort and stated that those employed in those jobs were exempt from conscription.
Conscription was by age and in October 1939 men aged between 20 and 23 were required to register to serve in one of the armed forces. They were allowed to choose between the army, the navy and the airforce".
http://www.historyonthenet.com/ww2/conscription.htm
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Yes, that's exactly how the area codes worked, there is a full list of the 3-letter codes on FindMyPast:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts?_ga=1.71679703.551440129.1437955750 (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts?_ga=1.71679703.551440129.1437955750)
When you unlock a record you see the full reference including the 4-letter enumeration district code (this isn't always in the transcript but you will always see it at the top of the page itself). Identity Cards issued after the 1939 enumeration might have a different letter/number format.
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I haven't been able to find my mother's brother Jack born 1916. He should have been living with his parents but there were only his parents living in the family home.
I think he was probably still in the UK but with a transcription problem.
Anyone born after 2015 we can't see unless their death is proven (ie before 1991 - and not in hospital) or someone has sent a death certificate
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I haven't been able to find my mother's brother Jack born 1916. He should have been living with his parents but there were only his parents living in the family home.
I think he was probably still in the UK but with a transcription problem.
Anyone born after 2015 we can't see unless their death is proven (ie before 1991 - and not in hospital) or someone has sent a death certificate
Why does a death in Hospital make a difference?
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I haven't been able to find my mother's brother Jack born 1916. He should have been living with his parents but there were only his parents living in the family home.
I think he was probably still in the UK but with a transcription problem.
Anyone born after 2015 we can't see unless their death is proven (ie before 1991 - and not in hospital) or someone has sent a death certificate
Thanks, but what I meant was his name wasn't redacted from the family home (e.g. "and one other") and that definitely was his home until he married after WWII.
I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
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Yes, that's exactly how the area codes worked, there is a full list of the 3-letter codes on FindMyPast:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts?_ga=1.71679703.551440129.1437955750 (http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-register-enumeration-districts?_ga=1.71679703.551440129.1437955750)
When you unlock a record you see the full reference including the 4-letter enumeration district code (this isn't always in the transcript but you will always see it at the top of the page itself). Identity Cards issued after the 1939 enumeration might have a different letter/number format.
Yes, that page was linked to in the other thread that I posted the link for.
In that thread it was thought that the three letter code formed the 2nd-4th letters of the area codes. I just wanted to correct that for those interested, to say it was actually the 1st-3rd and constituted the first code of a sequence of codes allocated to a borough.
It was from unlocked images that I got the codes I quoted.
Yes, there may be variances how ID cards were numbered later, but what I said seems to hold true for the one I have and the couple of dozen I have looked at on google images!
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Anyone born after 2015 we can't see unless their death is proven (ie before 1991 - and not in hospital) or someone has sent a death certificate
Why does a death in Hospital make a difference?
[/quote]
Whilst the Register was updated until 1991 it appears that it relied upon being informed of a persons death. Below is a post from a message board that makes interesting reading.
Dear all,
Between 1987 and 1990 I spent a lot of time working with, what was by then
called, the NHS Register. The discussion about computerising patient
records had begun and I spent some time explaining the need for a unique
identifier and pointing out that the current NHS Numbers would not work. (I
will not give you're the technical details!).
The 1939 Register was used as the basis for the NHS Register. The records
were kept up to date because they showed which patient was allocated to
which GP. When a patient died the GP was supposed to return their medical
file and as a consequence would have their capitation fees reduced. (You
might see a reason there why some of them did not report deaths.) If a
patient died in hospital, or in other circumstances, the GP might not have
known about the death and the patient would remain on their books until
there was some kind of audit (a rare occurrence!). The level of inflation
in capitation fees was estimated as being between 10% and 30%. No one would
do anything about it for fear of upsetting the doctors. (When the NHS
started someone asked how the doctors had been persuaded to join and was
told by the politician in charge "We stopped their mouths with gold!")
Linking death registrations to the register may have been attempted but it
is fraught with problems. Deaths are often reported by people with little
real knowledge of the deceased. (My grandfather registered the death of
someone who had taken in grandma when her parents died and reported the age
as 101. He would have had no idea of her age. She might have been about
80!) Doctors and care workers often know only what the person has told them
and exaggerating you age is not uncommon. For married women there will be no
clues to their birth name and lots of people change or misspell their own
names. You only have to look at the census records to see how mangled a
name can get when the recorder has only heard it and the speaker cannot
read.
My expectations of this new data set were pretty low. It might help you
find A date of birth but I know all of my direct family ones for this period
from Grandma's Birthday Book. Bear in mind that this set suffers from the
transcription errors of the original recorders as well as those introduced
by FindMyPast.
I hope this helps.
Andy
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Readydale
I had an idea that the link to the area codes table was somewhere in that earlier thread, but I couldn't face the prospect of trawling through 30+ pages to check!
Most numbers consist of the 3-letter area code followed by an enumeration district letter, as you say. The exception is where a card was lost or stolen and a replacement was issued, where the last letter was dropped and Y was added to the start (there were no area codes starting with Y). Quite a neat idea, really. You can usually see the 3-letter area code on the office stamp on the blue cards.
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The 1939 Register, taken on 29th September 1939, also contains lots of changes, that were added up to 1991. Such as changes in surname.
I love the changeable elements of the 1939 register, it's helped me find out what happened to so many people, e.g. people who married/remarried after 1939. I've tied up so many loose ends re when/where people died. Makes my tree feel so much more complete!
Can someone please tell me where any changes are noted? There are no changes or additions to the record I have purchased. There are no maps, photos, newspapers, or statistics either as promised on the Find My Past 1939 Register "home page". Where can I find all these additional things?
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Can someone please tell me where any changes are noted? There are no changes or additions to the record I have purchased. There are no maps, photos, newspapers, or statistics either as promised on the Find My Past 1939 Register "home page". Where can I find all these additional things?
If you look at the 1939 Register image at http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eoz/ you will see changes of surname both in pencil and in green ink, one of them also has a date (possible date of marriage) related to the change.
The maps, photos, newspapers, or statistics, etc. may be found if you scroll down the preview page below the box which details the household.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy! Useful information, succinctly put.
Kooky
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Guy, you seem to have some insight into FindMyPast's thought processes...
Would you know how much they thought they would have to add to a yearly subscription to make it worthwhile for them?
It is an incredibly useful resource but on PAYG, I don't think many are going to go for more than the initial 5, if that.
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As they did when the 1911 census was released they will not move the 1939 Register onto a yearly subscription until they have made as much as they can on people buying these credits after all this will have cost them a fair bit to get this register on the site in the first place so you are looking at around a year away before this happens if not later before this happens.
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They need to recoup a large proportion of the money they've spent to digistise them,and until they do they will not include them in the subscription packages.
Anyone know how long it will be before we hear if our request to un redact the people who we've provided death certs for? They emailed saying 14 days,but as I did all 3 of mine on 2nd November,that date has already passed.
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I realise they ned to recoup their charges, was thinking of an extra supplement to the subscription packages
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Anyone know how long it will be before we hear if our request to un redact the people who we've provided death certs for? They emailed saying 14 days,but as I did all 3 of mine on 2nd November,that date has already passed.
I sent a request and the emailed response was " 10 working days after the request was submitted"; I'm guessing that they work Mon-Fri, so I should hear by Tuesday.
Nanny Jan
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Anyone know how long it will be before we hear if our request to un redact the people who we've provided death certs for? They emailed saying 14 days,but as I did all 3 of mine on 2nd November,that date has already passed.
I'd imagine they've been inundated with requests so it'll probably take a bit longer at the moment
They need to recoup a large proportion of the money they've spent to digistise them,and until they do they will not include them in the subscription packages.
Also, if they include them in the subscription fairly soon, it's pretty unfair on the people who have splashed out on pay-per-view credits to see them sooner.
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They need to recoup a large proportion of the money they've spent to digistise them,and until they do they will not include them in the subscription packages.
Also, if they include them in the subscription fairly soon, it's pretty unfair on the people who have splashed out on pay-per-view credits to see them sooner.
[/quote]
I was more thinking of the earlier decision process that decided to recoup their outlay via PAYG versus an increase/supplement in the subscription
Presumably a number of charging models were considered and the PAYG won out. I wondered if there was any informed opinions about how much a better a model it was considered to be
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Presumably a number of charging models were considered and the PAYG won out.
I would imagine FindMyPast weighed up both options and picked the most financially viable for them - they're professionals after all.
Personally though, I would rather pay a supplement (say the cost of about 10 households on PAYG?) and have unlimited access, and I think they would attract a lot of people who are unwilling to splash out on PAYG at this moment. Would they recoup their costs more effectively this way? Seems like a better way to me, but I'm sure FindMyPast have done their research properly.
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If they included it in the package it would then be available for doing looks ups for other people. Would we then have to be restricted like we are for the 1911. :-\
Rosie
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They need to recoup a large proportion of the money they've spent to digistise them,and until they do they will not include them in the subscription packages.
It is not just the costs to digitise the records, Findmypast have invested hugely in the cost of conserving nearly 7000 volumes that form the 1939 National Register.
In addition they have covered the cost of creating the official digital record, indexing more than 40 million individuals listed in the records as well as providing a complex technical solution which enables the redaction of closed records from each image as necessary.
This multi-million pound project was on a significantly different scale and complexity from all previous digitisation projects and completed without any public subsidy something the National Archives could not have done alone.
Cheers
Guy
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I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
Rena, could I ask you for a link to this? I've looked on their website, seen where they say they have these records but can't for the life of me find how to search for a specific person. I know my mother was in the ATS and my auntie was an ambulance driver.
Thanks.
Jill
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Can someone please tell me where any changes are noted? There are no changes or additions to the record I have purchased. There are no maps, photos, newspapers, or statistics either as promised on the Find My Past 1939 Register "home page". Where can I find all these additional things?
If you look at the 1939 Register image at http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eoz/ you will see changes of surname both in pencil and in green ink, one of them also has a date (possible date of marriage) related to the change.
The maps, photos, newspapers, or statistics, etc. may be found if you scroll down the preview page below the box which details the household.
Cheers
Guy
Thank you very much Guy.
Added: Sadly no amendments to my family of interest.
I found the map, statistics and photo (which was completely irrelevant and related to a different part of the country) and a "newspaper article". ::) I think these "features" are useless add ons which are promoted as being of relevance but are of no real value. The map is the most useful showing the address, however I could look that up on google maps, or elsewhere .... overall, a bit disappointing.
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I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
Rena, could I ask you for a link to this? I've looked on their website, seen where they say they have these records but can't for the life of me find how to search for a specific person. I know my mother was in the ATS and my auntie was an ambulance driver.
Thanks.
Jill
Hope you find what you want.
http://catalogue.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
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Personally though, I would rather pay a supplement (say the cost of about 10 households on PAYG?) and have unlimited access, and I think they would attract a lot of people who are unwilling to splash out on PAYG at this moment. Would they recoup their costs more effectively this way? Seems like a better way to me, but I'm sure FindMyPast have done their research properly.
Yes, so would I
It's the ballpark level of the supplement that FindMyPast would have needed to charge to match the PAYG model that I was trying to ascertain.
I think your figure of £50 would actually have met a fair bit of opposition, even though it would be good value for those who research a wider spread of relatives
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I think your figure of £50 would actually have met a fair bit of opposition, even though it would be good value for those who research a wider spread of relatives
It may have met opposition should it have happened, but that was the add-on subscriptioin price to view the 1911 census on FindMyPast when they first added subscriptions for it. Therefore, its very unlikely in such circumstances that the 1939 Register would be any less. If and when they do add subs, its likely to be at least that to start with but as with the 1911, over time the overall cost will probably drop.
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I agree that an additional £50 looks high, and there probably would have been much complaint about it. The main objection to using that method, I think, would probably be because it would apply only to those who already have (or who then purchase) a full subscription. This way, using PAYGO, anyone can access, without having to also purchase a full sub. I believe this probably extends their potential customer base quite considerably.
Or have I misunderstood the term "add on"
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I can't remember for definate as its a few years ago, but I think it was a separate subscription that anyone could purchase, albeit that I think if you were an existing subscriber it may have been about £10 cheaper. I've read on another forum that it was originally £59 for a 1911 Census subscription, but I only remember paying £50 so that may have been because I was an existing subscriber.
But I may be incorrectly remembering. ;D
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I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
Rena, could I ask you for a link to this? I've looked on their website, seen where they say they have these records but can't for the life of me find how to search for a specific person. I know my mother was in the ATS and my auntie was an ambulance driver.
Thanks.
Jill
Hope you find what you want.
http://catalogue.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
Thanks, Rena.
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I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
Rena, could I ask you for a link to this? I've looked on their website, seen where they say they have these records but can't for the life of me find how to search for a specific person. I know my mother was in the ATS and my auntie was an ambulance driver.
Thanks.
Jill
Hope you find what you want.
http://catalogue.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
Thank you Rena and Jill for mentioning these records.
I had no idea they were online, and I've just found several members of both my grandparents families who were involved in one way or another.
Which has helped to confirm the address entries in the 1939 Register.
Brilliant!
Thanks again,
Yorkslass
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I think your figure of £50 would actually have met a fair bit of opposition, even though it would be good value for those who research a wider spread of relatives
It may have met opposition should it have happened, but that was the add-on subscriptioin price to view the 1911 census on FindMyPast when they first added subscriptions for it. Therefore, its very unlikely in such circumstances that the 1939 Register would be any less. If and when they do add subs, its likely to be at least that to start with but as with the 1911, over time the overall cost will probably drop.
Yes but that was about a year after it had been run as a pay as you go site.
For details of the pay as you go service see
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ghn/
Cheers
Guy
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I'm lucky in that Hull City archives have put all their local WWII Civil Defence members online (Wardens, Fire Fighters, etc) and they don't seem to have bothered about death dates, but maybe they didn't know the ages.
Rena, could I ask you for a link to this? I've looked on their website, seen where they say they have these records but can't for the life of me find how to search for a specific person. I know my mother was in the ATS and my auntie was an ambulance driver.
Thanks.
Jill
Hope you find what you want.
http://catalogue.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/
Thanks, Rena.
Do you realise that many ATS service women actually served overseas?
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Pay To View is undoubtedly more profitable for them and most importantly is a huge deterrent for doing look ups for others, compelling anyone who wants to view a record, to pay for their own.
The cost is set high enough for it to not be tempting to help anyone out, unlike Scotland's People, where people often are happy to spend a couple of £ of spare credits to do a lookup for someone.
If there had been a subscription there are plenty of generous people who would have offered look ups and FindMyPast obviously would not want this to happen.
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Yes but that was about a year after it had been run as a pay as you go site.
For details of the pay as you go service see
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ghn/
Cheers
Guy
Guy, I'm well aware the subscription for the 1911 census was introduced a year or so after its launch, as I'm sure other RCers are and it has already been mentioned on here recently as well. I personally purchased a number of credits to view some entries prior to the subscription launch, but admittedly no where near as many as I purchased for the 1901 which at the time of its launch was of more use to my research.
The point being made was that even when the subscription was launched it was still relatively expensive and no doubt drew complaints from some as it would no doubt have done now if it had been available. That said I still feel the 1911 census was of far more use to my research than I feel the 1939 Register is but that's my personal view, although if it had been set at about £50 I probably would have paid it. Instead I shall probably spend such money on something else of more use to me.
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What I am more interested in is how the National Archives (N.A.) are going to licence the 39 to Ancestry (Anc.).
It is very doubtful that they will be allowed to send Anc. a data set which they could unredact entries themselves.
Therefore I would imagine the N.A. would have to send updates of the dataset at regular intervals to such overseas licencees, or perhaps a code the would allow certain records to be unredacted.
Perhaps this has not be thought out yet or perhaps they already have a solution.
Cheers
Guy
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What I am more interested in is how the National Archives (N.A.) are going to licence the 39 to Ancestry (Anc.).
It is very doubtful that they will be allowed to send Anc. a data set which they could unredact entries themselves.
Therefore I would imagine the N.A. would have to send updates of the dataset at regular intervals to such overseas licencees, or perhaps a code the would allow certain records to be unredacted.
Perhaps this has not be thought out yet or perhaps they already have a solution.
Cheers
Guy
I would like to hear either from Findmypast or The National Archives as to how long Findmypast have exclusive access to the 1939 Register, my reading of the Tender Document is 10 years (from 2014) with options for 4 X 5 years. The Register is different from the normal censuses in that Findmypast are contracted to provide a service involving verifying and unredacting and I can't see them carrying the cost of such service only for the results to be passed on to others.
Andy
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What I am more interested in is how the National Archives (N.A.) are going to licence the 39 to Ancestry (Anc.).
It is very doubtful that they will be allowed to send Anc. a data set which they could unredact entries themselves.
Therefore I would imagine the N.A. would have to send updates of the dataset at regular intervals to such overseas licencees, or perhaps a code the would allow certain records to be unredacted.
Perhaps this has not be thought out yet or perhaps they already have a solution.
Cheers
Guy
I would like to hear either from Findmypast or The National Archives as to how long Findmypast have exclusive access to the 1939 Register, my reading of the Tender Document is 10 years (from 2014) with options for 4 X 5 years. The Register is different from the normal censuses in that Findmypast are contracted to provide a service involving verifying and unredacting and I can't see them carrying the cost of such service only for the results to be passed on to others.
Andy
That is the full contract period, the exclusive access will possibly be one or two years, I think the 1911 was one.
Cheers
Guy
PS One of the costs FindMyPast does have to carry is unredacting certainly during the exclusive access period. It is all these additional costs that many do not take into account, they have also had to develop software to redcat and unredact the images and other technical challenges.
Guy
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Have "Findmypast" found that there is more work to be done than they expected and budgeted for, I wonder?
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I noticed a question on the Genes Reunited forum (Genealogy Chat ; 1939 Register Help Required) where the subscriber is asking about an entery that apears at the top of a page.
He seems to be unaware (and none other the answers have told him) that where a household is spread over two pages both pages are accesible when the first is unlocked.
All he has to do to see the earlier page is to click the arrow pointing to the left on the image he has unlocked.
If the household carries over to the next page the arrow will appear on the right of the screen taking one to the next image.
If there are any Genes Reunited subscribers here perhaps they can help "Alan" out by mentioning this to him.
Cheers
Guy
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Better still, suggest that he comes on here.
Trystan
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Have "Findmypast" found that there is more work to be done than they expected and budgeted for, I wonder?
I doubt it they know it is about twice the amount they had to do for the 1911 census in general terms.
They also know it is not a simple scan and host contract and they have various teams updating things such as the team that deals with redactions and unredactions, a team looking into reconciling the deaths register with the 1939 register others looking in to things like missing entries or broken links etc.
These are the things that put the digitising projects out or reach of the National Archives alone and add considerably to the costs.
Cheers
Guy
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I don't understand why Find My Past make such a big deal of opening redacted records.
In its simplest form, all they need is a 1 byte field on each record set to 0-closed, or 1-open, then, once a week or so, they run a program that reads every record, checks the DOB for 100 years and 1 day, and if it is set to 0, re-set it to 1, and copy details of each record opened to a file for later checking.
I have a database on my PC of over 5 million records, and such a program takes about 40 seconds to run, so it should take only 5 minutes or so for the 1939 database.
I appreciate that it is far from being as simple as that, as Find My Past state that new software had to be written, and that there is no comparison between the complexity of my records and those of the 1939 database, but the principle remains the same.
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I don't understand why Find My Past make such a big deal of opening redacted records.
In its simplest form, all they need is a 1 byte field on each record set to 0-closed, or 1-open, then, once a week or so, they run a program that reads every record, checks the DOB for 100 years and 1 day, and if it is set to 0, re-set it to 1, and copy details of each record opened to a file for later checking.
I have a database on my PC of over 5 million records, and such a program takes about 40 seconds to run, so it should take only 5 minutes or so for the 1939 database.
I appreciate that it is far from being as simple as that, as Find My Past state that new software had to be written, and that there is no comparison between the complexity of my records and those of the 1939 database, but the principle remains the same.
Hmmm, I thought the same (thinking as I do from a software developer's point of view!) I would have thought all the hard work came in writing the software, since the requirements for dealing with the data differed from any data set FindMyPast had released before. Once tested and running, I thought opening the redacted records would be straightforward?
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Hi
Whilst the unredacting of people 100 years from DOB should be fairly straightforward it is the requests for unredacting that may be more time consuming. Surely they have to verify that the person on the death certificate is the same person as on the Register.
Andy
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Hi
Whilst the unredacting of people 100 years from DOB should be fairly straightforward it is the requests for unredacting that may be more time consuming. Surely they have to verify that the person on the death certificate is the same person as on the Register.
Andy
In many cases it'll be impossible to prove... I think they've got their work cut out!
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Does anyone have any evidence that FindMyPast do actually get back to you when they ask you to be patient as they're looking into your particular query? If so, how long are they taking?
I got an email from them 10 days ago to say they'd passed my query (missing address) to their technical team to investigate.
I'm just wondering if I'm staring into a blackhole! ::)
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Not sure if this has been answered anywhere in the many posts. I keep get adverts saying, "Find out who was living in your house in 1939." I know you can search by street, but can you also search by the number in the street, I thought it was just an alphabetical list?
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The address search lists the house numbers in the street, odd numbers first then odd numbers added later, followed by even numbers then even numbers added later.
Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy. Hadn't spotted that before! However, it does confirm what I keep telling FindMyPast, the houses of my grandparents and immediate neighbours are missing from the register.
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My grandmother has one person "officially closed" living with her in 1939. Apart from my father, she had three other children who were alive in 1939, all born after 1915, so it could be any of them with her. Two of those three have died (2007 and 2009) so could be unredacted now. But if I supply FindMyPast with the death cert, I also have to supply the address where they were living in 1939. My grandmother's address could be right for one of my deceased uncle and aunt, or it could be wrong for both and the person with her is my still living aunt.
Any suggestions what I can do.
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Could you eliminate your aunt by asking her where she was living in 1939?
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I had a problem locating one particular address using the street name and county borough name. Instead of putting in the street name and county borough I tried putting in the street name and county name and success! A number of addresses appeared in an additional set of results underneath the other results I was getting before. For some reason a number of addresses were not appearing in the search results so try playing around with the search if you are missing addresses.
Blue
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Unfortunately she suffers from dementia and can't really communicate any more. The aunt who died in 2009 was born in 1916, so was the most likely to have left home by 1939. The living aunt and deceased uncle would have been 17 and 15 respectively in 1939. I guess it would the youngest (my uncle), but would a 17 year old girl have left home in 1939 - not quite like Victorian times when a girl of that age might be a servant living in her employer's house.
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The address search lists the house numbers in the street, odd numbers first then odd numbers added later, followed by even numbers then even numbers added later.
Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
Here in North Wales, currently in some roads most of the houses do not have numbers, they only have names. and outlying rural farms and houses mostly have names only and no numbers. I wonder how some of the Welsh Language names have been mashed up by the transcribers?
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Thanks Guy. Hadn't spotted that before! However, it does confirm what I keep telling FindMyPast, the houses of my grandparents and immediate neighbours are missing from the register.
As the transcriptions (and therefore the searchable index) is a transcription of what is actually on the register, it might be worth looking under abbreviations.
For instance, my father currently lives in a reasonably long road (c.250 houses). Most of those addresses are found under xxxxxx Crescent, my Dad's is under xxxxxx Cres and a few under xxxxxx C. So for Road try also Rd, for Street try Str or St, etc, etc, etc.
Might not help, but you never know.
Also, just because they don't appear on the search, doesn't mean they are "missing from the register", just missing from the index (or incorrectly indexed). I couldn't get my GGrandparents to appear, no matter what seach terms I put in. So I found some people up the street who did appear, then changed the Item number one up and/or down and sure enough one of them consistantly errored, because of bad indexing. I told FindMyPast, they checked and confirmed I was right) and 24-hours later they appeared using the same search criteria as used before.
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Does anyone have any evidence that FindMyPast do actually get back to you when they ask you to be patient as they're looking into your particular query? If so, how long are they taking?
Has no one had a reply back from them then?
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Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
Tell me more, Guy! I have said this all along but no one (to my knowledge) has ever admitted that a later register exists. Surely this will account for many, many 'missing' individuals and addresses on FindMyPast's 1939 register? Why have they kept quiet about this (rhetorical question: I think I can guess why!). Presumably this later register is only available at the NA?
If only this had been made clear from the start. >:( >:(
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The address search lists the house numbers in the street, odd numbers first then odd numbers added later, followed by even numbers then even numbers added later.
Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
Here in North Wales, currently in some roads most of the houses do not have numbers, they only have names. and outlying rural farms and houses mostly have names only and no numbers. I wonder how some of the Welsh Language names have been mashed up by the transcribers?
My uncle was an evacuee with a Welsh household on the 1939 Register. I got his details 2 years ago. On FindMyPast he is redacted. It was difficult finding the household using the address search but I did it eventually. Anyone searching houses with names, particularly Welsh names may struggle using the address search.
Blue
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My uncle was an evacuee with a Welsh household on the 1939 Register. I got his details 2 years ago. On FindMyPast he is redacted. It was difficult finding the household using the address search but I did it eventually. Anyone searching houses with names, particularly Welsh names may struggle using the address search.
Blue
I would imagine a lot of evacuees would be difficult to un-redact... I don't know the exact address my grandmother was evacuated to, and she's not here to ask (of course if she was alive I wouldn't be able to un-redact her!)
Looks like there'll be a lot of records which remain redacted until the 100 years have passed.
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Lizzie - I think I read somewhere on here that someone had send details to FindMyPast but had the reply that they couldn't open the record as that person didn't live there in 1939. As long as you have a subscription to FindMyPast you could do the same, send in both certificates. If they come back as negative then you know it must have been the aunt who is still alive.
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Lizzie - I think I read somewhere on here that someone had send details to FindMyPast but had the reply that they couldn't open the record as that person didn't live there in 1939. As long as you have a subscription to FindMyPast you could do the same, send in both certificates. If they come back as negative then you know it must have been the aunt who is still alive.
That's a good idea, I could at least eliminate one of them that way. The older aunt would be opened next year anyway, because she was born in 1916, but I would have to wait till the end of May
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Tell me more, Guy! I have said this all along but no one (to my knowledge) has ever admitted that a later register exists. Surely this will account for many, many 'missing' individuals and addresses on FindMyPast's 1939 register? Why have they kept quiet about this (rhetorical question: I think I can guess why!). Presumably this later register is only available at the NA?
If only this had been made clear from the start. >:( >:(
I thought it had been.
With regard to missing houses please remember to quote Jim Shaughnessy at Findmypast support.-
“If a record is closed, no element of it can be found in search. This is for privacy reasons and isn't something we dictate. This means that if every member of a household is closed, the entire house won't be searchable in the Register.”
To me that means the house number will not appear on the register until at least one person’s record is opened
Cheers
Guy
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Tell me more, Guy! I have said this all along but no one (to my knowledge) has ever admitted that a later register exists. Surely this will account for many, many 'missing' individuals and addresses on FindMyPast's 1939 register? Why have they kept quiet about this (rhetorical question: I think I can guess why!). Presumably this later register is only available at the NA?
If only this had been made clear from the start. >:( >:(
I thought it had been. In what way? I even queried it with FindMyPast when I was struggling to find quite a few of 'my' names. They didn't bother to reply. Have you any idea what happened to the supplementary register?
With regard to missing houses please remember to quote Jim Shaughnessy at Findmypast support.-
“If a record is closed, no element of it can be found in search. This is for privacy reasons and isn't something we dictate. This means that if every member of a household is closed, the entire house won't be searchable in the Register.”
To me that means the house number will not appear on the register until at least one person’s record is opened I am looking for 3 adults who were living at the 'missing' address according to the 1939 electoral roll and I know for sure were living there afterwards. This is what I queried with FindMyPast almost 2 weeks ago but still haven't heard anything more. Quite frankly, its enough to make you want to... get very cross!! ::)
Cheers
Guy
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I thought it had been.
With regard to missing houses please remember to quote Jim Shaughnessy at Findmypast support.-
“If a record is closed, no element of it can be found in search. This is for privacy reasons and isn't something we dictate. This means that if every member of a household is closed, the entire house won't be searchable in the Register.”
To me that means the house number will not appear on the register until at least one person’s record is opened
Cheers
Guy
I've opened one of my pages, and note that for one household the No: 1 person is redacted and this redacts the address as well - I can see the "tail" of letters under the blackout in the address column. Of the household of 4 people only two are open - Nos: 2 and 4.
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Isn't the address available on the preview page after you've unlocked it?
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My uncle was an evacuee with a Welsh household on the 1939 Register. I got his details 2 years ago. On FindMyPast he is redacted. It was difficult finding the household using the address search but I did it eventually. Anyone searching houses with names, particularly Welsh names may struggle using the address search.
Blue
I would imagine a lot of evacuees would be difficult to un-redact... I don't know the exact address my grandmother was evacuated to, and she's not here to ask (of course if she was alive I wouldn't be able to un-redact her!)
Looks like there'll be a lot of records which remain redacted until the 100 years have passed.
Yes not worth getting a death certificate and trying to explain the address while I've got the HSCIC transcript of the household including my uncle on it from my 2013 application for information from the 1939 Register.
Blue
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Not as far as I know. My family is open to view, but it is one of the other households on the same page of 40+ names where the No: 1 for that particular household is redacted, which takes out the address for the other members of the household as well. Nos: 2 and 4 would be searchable by name, I assume, but not by address.
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One button I only saw after looking at about 30 screens said Transcript of Full Page. That MUST have it...
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Better still, suggest that he comes on here.
Trystan
If he does come here (or if he is already subscribed here) I can tell him exactly where the two entries are he is looking for.
Cheers
Guy
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I've one family I would really like to find, but no matter what search terms I use, there is no sign of them.
I've even slogged through the road I thought they might be living in...nearly 400 households >:( ... to no avail, although I did find several marked as just Household, with no details on the preview. What on earth is the point of those?
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I've one family I would really like to find, but no matter what search terms I use, there is no sign of them.
I've even slogged through the road I thought they might be living in...nearly 400 households >:( ... to no avail, although I did find several marked as just Household, with no details on the preview. What on earth is the point of those?
Might they be households where everyone is redacted due to being born after 1915 and not died before 1991
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Might they be households where everyone is redacted due to being born after 1915 and not died before 1991
Entirely possible... could be two yound newlyweds both born after 1916? Households where everyone is redacted will be uncommon, but not impossible.
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That's a point, I suppose FindMyPast's system doesn't allow for these to be hidden. Having seen some Rootschatters say that they know people who are still alive who haven't been redacted, & some who died before 1991 who have been redacted I can't help wondering if my missing family have been victims of some sort of error & are in one of these households.
I've one family I would really like to find, but no matter what search terms I use, there is no sign of them.
I've even slogged through the road I thought they might be living in...nearly 400 households >:( ... to no avail, although I did find several marked as just Household, with no details on the preview. What on earth is the point of those?
Might they be households where everyone is redacted due to being born after 1915 and not died before 1991
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The address search lists the house numbers in the street, odd numbers first then odd numbers added later, followed by even numbers then even numbers added later.
Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
Thanks to the brilliant guidance on here, I was just able to check the addresses in Slaidburn Street, Chelsea. I'd expected to find my grandparents and other members of the family (they were mainly houses of multiple occupancy) - in 1934 my grandparents were on the electoral roll at number 45, although they had also lived at no 44. Checking the list of house numbers, all the numbers are consecutive but annoyingly stop at number 43 and resume at number 49.
So frustrating!
Guy, what am I missing this time? You've been so patient and informative, perhaps they would have been on the later register you mention, although I don't know why a run of houses would all have failed to respond. ???
Pat
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The address search lists the house numbers in the street, odd numbers first then odd numbers added later, followed by even numbers then even numbers added later.
Some additional addresses (those who did not respond to the registration at the time) were not added to this register but added to the later register these are not available.
Cheers
Guy
Thanks to the brilliant guidance on here, I was just able to check the addresses in Slaidburn Street, Chelsea. I'd expected to find my grandparents and other members of the family (they were mainly houses of multiple occupancy) - in 1934 my grandparents were on the electoral roll at number 45, although they had also lived at no 44. Checking the list of house numbers, all the numbers are consecutive but annoyingly stop at number 43 and resume at number 49.
So frustrating!
Guy, what am I missing this time? You've been so patient and informative, perhaps they would have been on the later register you mention, although I don't know why a run of houses would all have failed to respond. ???
Pat
It could be that all the people in those houses are covered by the Data Prevention Protection Act, i.e. there are still thought to be alive.
See my answer number 102 in this thread.
Cheers
Guy
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Thank you, Guy.
Yes, my mother and her siblings would be closed but my grandparents were born pre-1900 and old Granny Sweeney about 1875. ;D
Just a blip I expect.....it's what I've come to expect from my family!
Thanks again for all your invaluable help.
Pat
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Managed to get my aunty's entry opened up who died a year ago. So will try some more entries.
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Managed to get my aunty's entry opened up who died a year ago. So will try some more entries.
Do they email you Weste and tell you it's all okay to view now?
I did 3 on the first day (2nd Nov) but have heard nothing since.
Carol
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Thanks to the brilliant guidance on here, I was just able to check the addresses in Slaidburn Street, Chelsea. I'd expected to find my grandparents and other members of the family (they were mainly houses of multiple occupancy) - in 1934 my grandparents were on the electoral roll at number 45, although they had also lived at no 44. Checking the list of house numbers, all the numbers are consecutive but annoyingly stop at number 43 and resume at number 49.
So frustrating!
Guy, what am I missing this time? You've been so patient and informative, perhaps they would have been on the later register you mention, although I don't know why a run of houses would all have failed to respond. ???
Pat
Those missing numbers are not just redacted in the normal sequence.
Number 43 is the last few people on 0106d/008 (people 40-42)
Number 49 is the first few people on 0106d/009 (people 1-8)
There are no side roads coming in, that those missing numbers could be attached to.
My understanding of that is that either those addresses were empty or were caught later, in which case they would either be grouped together at the end of the area or in a special register that has been mentioned on here.
Interestingly, I cannot find any of the people shown on the 1939 electoral roll living at 44 to 48 anywhere under the Chelsea district. Obviously some of those would be old enough to vote, but too young to show in this register.
Many of them are still there on the 1945 electoral roll.
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No they did n't email and I'd been checking the last few days and found it this morning, carol. I thought I'd get an email I must admit.
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In that case I'd better check some of my early ones.
I just re-read the email and they say " We aim to process all requests and send you confirmation of the outcome, or to obtain further information or evidence, within 10 working days, starting the working day after being submitted."
So if you count today as the day after the 2nd,then their 10 days is up at midnight tonight ;D
Thanks
Carol
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It seems to me that the original administration in compiling the Register in September 1939 was undertaken with much greater efficiency than the digitisation. Or am I being unkind?
However, I am sure several properties or domestic addresses would have evaded the enumerators in 1939.
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My mum has been un redacted,although because a lot of the writing on her line goes up to the one above where her elder brother is still redacted,it is illegible.
Hers wasn't the first one I did,so it was either easier to pinpoint her or they are picking them at random to investigate.
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Thanks to the brilliant guidance on here, I was just able to check the addresses in Slaidburn Street, Chelsea. I'd expected to find my grandparents and other members of the family (they were mainly houses of multiple occupancy) - in 1934 my grandparents were on the electoral roll at number 45, although they had also lived at no 44. Checking the list of house numbers, all the numbers are consecutive but annoyingly stop at number 43 and resume at number 49.
So frustrating!
Guy, what am I missing this time? You've been so patient and informative, perhaps they would have been on the later register you mention, although I don't know why a run of houses would all have failed to respond. ???
Pat
Those missing numbers are not just redacted in the normal sequence.
Number 43 is the last few people on 0106d/008 (people 40-42)
Number 49 is the first few people on 0106d/009 (people 1-8)
There are no side roads coming in, that those missing numbers could be attached to.
My understanding of that is that either those addresses were empty or were caught later, in which case they would either be grouped together at the end of the area or in a special register that has been mentioned on here.
Interestingly, I cannot find any of the people shown on the 1939 electoral roll living at 44 to 48 anywhere under the Chelsea district. Obviously some of those would be old enough to vote, but too young to show in this register.
Many of them are still there on the 1945 electoral roll.
That's very interesting, ReadyDale. I don't have a current sub to look at electoral rolls so the last one I had was for 1934. My grandfather John Young died in 1944 & my grandmother was 'bombed out' in the Blitz, I was under the impression it was in Slaidburn Street, but maybe not.
Thank you so much for taking an interest - & for confirming they don't seem to want to be found - not just me, then!
Pat
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That's very interesting, ReadyDale. I don't have a current sub to look at electoral rolls so the last one I had was for 1934. My grandfather John Young died in 1944 & my grandmother was 'bombed out' in the Blitz, I was under the impression it was in Slaidburn Street, but maybe not.
Thank you so much for taking an interest - & for confirming they don't seem to want to be found - not just me, then!
Pat
In 1939 Elec Roll for No.45 there were 5 Sweeney names and 2 Young names
By 1945 Elec Roll for No.45 there were 1 Philpott, 1 Taylor and 2 Smith names
Assuming the numbering is unchanged, looking at Slaiburn St now, if No.45 has been rebuilt, they did a good job of aging it. However, No 43 is right next to the old Congregational Church (rebuilt as a church - now baptist) which is shown on a 1950 map as a ruin and the Blitz map does indicate a bomb dropped there (1944 according to the church website), so......
Maybe it just lost a roof and/or windows but was structurally OK.
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ReadyDale, that's fantastic information! Maybe no 45 needed a tiny bit of work after the church was bombed (I love the comment about the good job of aging it. ;D ) so they decided to move anyway, especially as Gfather had died by then.
I am so grateful for your help, thank you very much indeed. Now I know they were definitely where they should be in 1939!
Much appreciated.
Pat
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ReadyDale, that's fantastic information! Maybe no 45 needed a tiny bit of work after the church was bombed (I love the comment about the good job of aging it. ;D ) so they decided to move anyway, especially as Gfather had died by then.
I am so grateful for your help, thank you very much indeed. Now I know they were definitely where they should be in 1939!
Much appreciated.
Pat
Assuming that it was there they were bombed out from, then yes. But don't forget, the 1939 electoral roll would be based on where they were October 1938. So it COULD be that they moved from there between Oct 38 and Sep 39, and that they were bombed from elsewhere.
One possible way to be more sure. Do you have a death cert for John Young? Does it say where he died/his normal address? It could of course be that he died after they were bombed out (as they seem to both have been 1944) and it would say his new adress, but worth a try. Of course, he may have died from injuries from the bombing or even the shock of it.
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ReadyDale, that's fantastic information! Maybe no 45 needed a tiny bit of work after the church was bombed (I love the comment about the good job of aging it. ;D ) so they decided to move anyway, especially as Gfather had died by then.
I am so grateful for your help, thank you very much indeed. Now I know they were definitely where they should be in 1939!
Much appreciated.
Pat
Assuming that it was there they were bombed out from, then yes. But don't forget, the 1939 electoral roll would be based on where they were October 1938. So it COULD be that they moved from there between Oct 38 and Sep 39, and that they were bombed from elsewhere.
One possible way to be more sure. Do you have a death cert for John Young? Does it say where he died/his normal address? It could of course be that he died after they were bombed out (as they seem to both have been 1944) and it would say his new adress, but worth a try. Of course, he may have died from injuries from the bombing or even the shock of it.
I do not think there had been any bombs dropped on England in September 1939.
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I didn't say otherwise ???
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ReadyDale, I don't have his death cert yet but I know from my mother that he died of cancer :( but yes, I agree, that would be the next step to confirm address.
Thank you once again for taking so much trouble, "They can run but they can't hide"...... at least not from expert Rootschatters! ;D
Scouse Boy - sorry, you're right of course, naughty corner for me for going off-topic. :-[ Got carried away.....
Pat
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I've had two records unredacted after submitting death certificates dated 2011 and 2014 - both of my parents! No notifications received though.
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Perhaps that's their way of informing us that we are successful!
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Perhaps that's their way of informing us that we are successful!
In the spirit of 1939 perhaps they will send you a signal in Morse code?
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In the spirit of 1939 perhaps they will send you a signal in Morse code?
;D
In all seriousness, it's good to see that the system for un-redacting records is working. Findmypast must have been inundated with requests, judging on some of the messages I've seen on here!
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I sent "evidence of death" on 2nd November, no notification of the entry being opened so I decided to check.
Oh dear........it looks as though they have opened the wrong one......a sister (who I think is still alive) of the man I was researching! :o
How can a death certificate for a male be confused with a female........ ::)
Nanny Jan
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I've just emailed FindMyPast as follows:
'My father's record is redacted in 1939 but he died on (date) 1989 - details on GRO death index: (full name, full GRO ref including date of birth).
If that name and d.o.b. match the 1939 entry for (address, TNA ref), will there be any need for a death certificate?'
My point is that his address, marital status, and occupation changed between 1939 and 1989; his name and d.o.b. didn't. So the GRO index contains as much relevant information as the cert would.
I'll post their response here.
Carol
P.S. Luckily I'd written down the TNA ref before they removed it ::)
Added: Standard email arrived within minutes repeating instructions for submitting death cert. Will now try 'Live Chat'.
Later: How the hell does this 'Live Chat' work ???
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How the hell does this 'Live Chat' work ???
Go down to the bottom of the page and click on Contact Us.
When you get to that page wait for a few seconds and a blue box and bubble appear in bottom left corner. After that just follow the prompts.
Be aware however that it seems a bit flaky - doesn't work on all browsers/versions (i.e. Chrome works fine, but some earlier versions of I.E. - IE9 for instance - it doesn't function.
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Thanks ReadyDale, it was using the 'enter' key that had me confused - so used to hitting 'post' on RC ::)
Anyhow, after a rather unenlightening 'chat' my question is going to be passed on - I know not where - but it's been said that the inflexible requirement for death certs is a TNA rule. We can only wait and hope :)
Carol
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Well I've finally had 2 emails from them telling me that I've been successful in opening redacted people.
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your patience while we processed your request for the officially closed record of (EHR) in the 1939 Register to be opened.
We are delighted to inform you that the record is now open.
To see the record, simply click the button below and scroll down to find EHR(my dad)
You will need to be signed in to your account to view the record. If you haven't already unlocked the household, you will need to purchase credits to do this.
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My two email notifications received 48 minutes ago add...
" Have you asked for more than one record to be opened?
Requests for records to be opened are processed in chronological order. If you have asked for more than one record to be opened we will notify you again as soon as possible."
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Well, I've had closure to my enquiry as to where mygrandmother is living in 1939 as the header does not have the name of her village and none of the properties are on listed streets.
After 10 days of going backwards and forwards to FindMyPast ending with a request for them to scroll through the pages to the beginning of the village because there is no scroll facility at TNA (or at home) and I don't know the surnames of anyone else living there, I've received this:
I am afraid we are unable to carry out the research you have asked for.
If there is anything else we can do to help though, please do let me know.
All I know is that she is in district DWOD, DWO being the code for Winslow district.
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Morning Dawn
Browsing Wilmslow by address gives 293 streets. If you look at a record from each one of them, won't you eventually find a reference close to the one you've got?
Not a fun way to spend an afternoon, I'll admit :)
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Hi Steve
You made the same mistake as FindMyPast, Winslow not Wilmslow ;)
From a previous email from FindMyPast, I don't think any of the houses in the village had street names attached to them. Certainly the previous page they had looked at didn't.
I'll be back at TNA soon and will have another look, I've found a link to 1911 registration districts on the TNA website so have narrowed down the entry to 2 possible villages. If I sit there long enough and play with the data without charge, I should find a workaround which could be helpful to others in the same situation.
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Hi Steve
You made the same mistake as FindMyPast, Winslow not Wilmslow ;)
What a nit :)
Still, only 137 of those
With a bit of luck, just clicking on
Clagdon / East Clagdon (presumably Claydon)
Drayton Parslow
Fishvire / Fishwire
Pinks End
Shipton
Sholden
Wood End
might be enough
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If you look at a record from each one of them, won't you eventually find a reference close to the one you've got?
But haven't FindMyPast removed the reference from the preview, and also altered the URLs so that refs can't be extracted from them? Or have I misunderstood what you're doing :-\
Carol
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Yes, but Dawn can look at the records at Kew so presumably the references will be available in the actual images somewhere
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I have found out where she was living, I asked my mum and she thought it was Mursley, turns out to be Whaddon, but will check to see what is 'visible' at Kew next visit.
If anyone wants more look-ups watch this space, it won't be next week but could be the week after, w/c 30th November
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I have found out where she was living, I asked my mum and she thought it was Mursley, turns out to be Whaddon, but will check to see what is 'visible' at Kew next visit.
But you said previously that you thought she was in Whaddon
and you gave the ref
2156e/002
Kelly's Directory of Buckinghamshire 1939 is on Ancestry. Is that no help in identifying the village?
Whaddon (image 306) has a small number of people listed, including -
Thos. Arth. Birch (grocer & post office), who comes up on 2156e/004
Clarence Chas. Binks (shopkpr), who comes up on 2156e/007
Haven't gone through them all.
John
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I did John, but I have been specifically asking FindMyPast to clarify the entry for me which it turns out is something they are unwilling to do.
The fact is that village names will be missing for lots of other people also and we have now got to come up with ways of establishing where people actually were.
I'm not a frequent user of Ancestry so didn't appeciate they had the Kelly's directory. Thank you.
It's most probably tips like yours and others that come along in future which will be beneficial.
Others might find this TNA link useful as well as it shows the enumeration district numbers used in the 1911 census.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C13339
Select the county then the district for a list of possible places based on the district numners shown in the 1939 results.
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(Was not sure which 1939 register thread to post this, so please move to a more appropriate one, or delete if it has been mentioned elsewhere)
I just received a "special offer" email from FindMyPast, as all who are signed up will have done:
Find your family and save over 40%
For one week only, you can unlock your family's household in the 1939 Register for just £3.99 with your exclusive code below (just for you lovely subscribers) - that’s over 40% off the usual price of £6.95.
I wonder what we can read into that?
Maybe not as many as anticipated are taking up the original offer? Surprise surprise.
If I had just paid full price to see several of my families I think I would be miffed about this ... :-\
I'm not sure the timing is good and think they might have been better leaving this a while till the initial excitement died down .... There's nothing worse that buying something full price and the next week it goes on sale. ;)
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I just had that email too but having used up my initial 5 (with disappointing results) I had one main family group left to 'open' but was going to wait until the cost came down or it became part of the subscription. However I took the £3.99 offer :)
I've read of people who've had great success with the register, so I must be unlucky. I know where my parents (closed) and grandparents were, and my husband's but had been hoping to fill in gaps on his side of the family. Annoyingly they were either born between 1911 and 1915 and have left home, or were born after Sept 1915 so are closed. ::)
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I had that email as well, but haven't used my initial offers of 25% and 10% yet as I unlocked 3 families using some credits that I had left from previous offers. As I'm lucky enough to know where most of my family were in 1939, I'm not bothered about unlocking more at the moment as I can get enough information by looking at the free 1939. I wonder how many people have done the same - perhaps the uptake hasn't been as large as FindMyPast anticipated.
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I've not really looked at all.
I know where my family were in 1939.
Those people I was unsure of (2 of them, I think!) I managed to find in a free index search.
Both of my grandfathers died in 1940 - so I knew where they were.
My grandmothers and my parents were easily found where I expected them.
I have few aunts and uncles - and they, too were where I expected.
So I don't feel a need to rush in and spend money I don't have! ;D
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I didn't get that offer nor did I get the 25% one until I took it up with FindMyPast. I've been a continuous annual subscriber for many years, back to when it was 1837online. I haven't yet bought any 1939 credits as I'm still struggling with free index to try and find my relatives, before I spend money on opening records for the wrong people. Maybe only those who have already opened records get the new offer
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Lizzie, you need to get in touch with them because everything that's been written has said if you have an annual subscription, you should get the discount. I'm sure it'll be a pain in the whatnot but you're not going to get it otherwise
I've just looked at my account setup and seen there's a button for "Receive occasional newsletters". Maybe that's been turned off on yours?
For the latest email, your hypothesis is not the reason, as I haven't unlocked any records from my account and I still got the email
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Thank you for confirming it is for all subscribers. The box for receive occasional emails is ticked on my account page and I have checked spam - still nothing.
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Thank you for confirming it is for all subscribers. The box for receive occasional emails is ticked on my account page and I have checked spam - still nothing.
Nor me Lizzie,all I've had is the 10% one,I emailed them and they said they are slowly getting round to everyone!
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I have not taken up my offer so far and this morning I have had an e-mail with a further reduction to £3.99 for set of 5 {40% in total}
Kim
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Kim, are you quite sure that's what it says?
Carol
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I have not taken up my offer so far and this morning I have had an e-mail with a further reduction to £3.99 for set of 5 {40% in total}
Kim
It's £3.99 per record, not a set of 5.
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Think it's for just 1 record only.
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Ahhhh......right my mistake - have not tried it yet but a GR poster has tried and her code is being rejected :(
Kim
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I thought for a moment that you were getting special privileges Kim ;D
Now am I misreading this email, or are FindMyPast offering 40% discount on the household they think I should be researching? They talk about 'the (surname) household' but they're not related to me. I use that name because it was OH's stepfather's name. OH isn't even interested in researching that name.
Is it just me or does anyone else read it that way?
Carol
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Mine says:
Find the xxxxx family in the register:
1939 Search for your relatives by clicking the button below. If you want to look for other names or refine your search, just click 'Edit search'.
The xxxxx is my surname.
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Ok, my turn :-[
Thanks Jan, that'll teach me to read things properly ;D
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;D
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me too :)
Kim
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The way I see it, is that the 1939 register has been contaminated by its subsequent use by the NHS.
Both my mother and father died in Hospital prior to 1991, one would expect that the NHS would have recorded them as having been deceased.
There seems to be an "element" or a hint of mis-selling in what is being advertised about the 1939 "register"
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Depends whether you think the benefits of the extra information provided by the NHS outweighs the disadvantages of where the register has not been updated correctly
FindMyPast will have been told how the register was meant to be updated, it's not their fault if it wasn't, so I don't see that as mis-selling
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The way I see it, is that the 1939 register has been contaminated by its subsequent use by the NHS.
Both my mother and father died in Hospital prior to 1991, one would expect that the NHS would have recorded them as having been deceased.
There seems to be an "element" or a hint of mis-selling in what is being advertised about the 1939 "register"
FindMyPast were told people who had died before 1991 were marked on the register with a "D", that is what they use to determine whether people born after 1915 are alive or deceased.
As we have been told (a copy of their mailing from Genbrit was posted on a Rootschat forum) by someone who worked on the register during their working life some (many ?) doctors did not inform the NHS when their patients died as that would mean them losing funding.
If that is added to the number of clerical errors that would occur in and large database such as this it is easy to see how a large proportion of deceased people would not be so marked.
FindMyPast have a team who are attempting to reconcile people whose deaths are recorded in the deaths register with those on the 1939 National Registration but this in itself is a huge task.
As many family historians know it is not always an easy matter to prove a death on the register corresponds to a birth on the birth register.
We as family historians can help others by sending in digital copies of death certificates we have for relations known to be on the '39 register, this will not only help FindMyPast it will help TNA and also future licencees of the '39 register. More importantly help other family historians and local historians in the future.
Cheers
Guy
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We as family historians can help others by sending in digital copies of death certificates we have for relations known to be on the '39 register, this will not only help FindMyPast it will help TNA and also future licencees of the '39 register. More importantly help other family historians and local historians in the future.
Since there are no clues whatsoever to the identity of the people whose names and details have been withheld, it's not that easy.
And speaking as a non-subscriber to FindMyPast, being charged £25 for each contribution is no incentive. If FindMyPast want help in making their product more attractive, they should be welcoming all offers of input, not just from their subscribers.
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We as family historians can help others by sending in digital copies of death certificates we have for relations known to be on the '39 register, this will not only help FindMyPast it will help TNA and also future licencees of the '39 register. More importantly help other family historians and local historians in the future.
Since there are no clues whatsoever to the identity of the people whose names and details have been withheld, it's not that easy.
And speaking as a non-subscriber to FindMyPast, being charged £25 for each contribution is no incentive. If FindMyPast want help in making their product more attractive, they should be welcoming all offers of input, not just from their subscribers.
Also you need exact date of birth and the address the individual was living at on 29/09/1939. Sending in the death cert won't help me as I don't know the answer to either of the above ??? ???
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This has been explained several times, but just to reiterate - the £25 charge is levied by TNA, not by FindMyPast. This is not a case of FindMyPast trying to extort extra money from us. They are, in fact, trying to help their subscribers by not asking for the £25.
Anyone who isn't a subscriber shouldn't expect the same concession.
Carol
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This has been explained several times, but just to reiterate - the £25 charge is levied by TNA, not by FindMyPast. This is not a case of FindMyPast trying to extort extra money from us. They are, in fact, trying to help their subscribers by not asking for the £25.
Anyone who isn't a subscriber shouldn't expect the same concession.
Carol
I know that the charge is levied by TNA.
The point is that we are expected to pay for the privilege of improving the content of the register. A register that FindMyPast, as a commercial organisation, expect to profit from. They should be encouraging everyone to contribute. I have nothing to gain by sending in the information that I have, only the satisfaction of perhaps helping others. I would be willing to do that, but not if I have to pay.
The immediate beneficiaries of our help would be FindMyPast, as they are the ones selling access to the register. They are not doing anyone a favour. The more complete the register can be shown to be, the more attractive it will be to FindMyPast's paying customers.
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I just seen on FindMyPast's Facebook page that someone searched using just the birthdate of 31st December 1939 & got 337 results...I've just tried it & it works :o
Clever stuff this register, being able to predict how many babies would be born at the end of the year!
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And over 11,000 predicted to be born in the whole of December 1939!
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carol8353
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Re: 1939 Register up and running (Part 3)
« Reply #53 on: Sunday 15 November 15 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Quote
They need to recoup a large proportion of the money they've spent to digistise them, and until they do they will not include them in the subscription packages.
Anyone know how long it will be before we hear if our request to un redact the people who we've provided death certs for? They emailed saying 14 days, but as I did all 3 of mine on 2nd November, that date has already passed.
I opened one of my families from Ardleigh, Frank and Emily Crane on 2.11.15. Have just had reason to re-open the page and found that someone has unscrambled one of their children for me. So it is probably worth keeping an eye on the pages you open. Who else is looking into this family, I wonder.
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Family Find,mine have taken about 12-14 days ,but the notification to say they have done it took a lot longer.
I would check them out to see if it's already been done.
Carol
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Sorry, I didn't actually say what I meant to say.
I had already viewed the record on 2 Nov and had to relook today as I had buried the printout on my desk. I was amazed to find that an extra person has been unlocked, although I didn't request this.
Cannot see any reason why this has happened unless someone else has requested it. So is anyone else looking at Frank and Emily Crane in Ardleigh?
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familyfind - was it the newly unlocked person's 100th birthday just recently that has prompted their record to be opened?
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I wondered that but they were born in 1922.
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Sorry, I didn't actually say what I meant to say.
I had already viewed the record on 2 Nov and had to relook today as I had buried the printout on my desk. I was amazed to find that an extra person has been unlocked, although I didn't request this.
Cannot see any reason why this has happened unless someone else has requested it. So is anyone else looking at Frank and Emily Crane in Ardleigh?
I had similar happen with one of the records. I send death cert and when i looked not only had the records i requested been opened, an extra record had been which was good as i was puzzled as to who 2 of the locked records could be. Turns out that he was probably an evacuee.
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Just checked by Great Grandmother and family again. My Great Aunt who was born in 1923 and died in 1975 was originally missing and the entry did say only 1 person closed. She's now visible in the index search but it still says 1 person missing. That has to be my Great Uncle who was born the end of 1916 and died only 2 years ago. I know he did serve, as he was injured in a motor cycle accident during the war, but as the original search only said 1 person closed, I'd assumed he must have joined up by then. As I don't have a copy of his death certificate, and don't really want to purchase a copy, I shall wait until after what would have been his 100th birthday next year and double check. ;)
So they have definitely been revisiting the images because, as I mentioned, when the site was launched the address only had 1 person closed, when in fact it should have said 2, albeit they've since opened up the entry for my Great Aunt. I doubt that anyone has submitted a copy of her death certificate because she had no descendants and there aren't many of us left within the family anyway. It seems they may be double checking the death indexes, particularly as in my Great Aunt's case, she died unmarried so her name would be the same and her date of birth is on the death index.
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So they have definitely been revisiting the images because, as I mentioned, when the site was launched the address only had 1 person closed, when in fact it should have said 2, albeit they've since opened up the entry for my Great Aunt. I doubt that anyone has submitted a copy of her death certificate because she had no descendants and there aren't many of us left within the family anyway. It seems they may be double checking the death indexes, particularly as in my Great Aunt's case, she died unmarried so her name would be the same and her date of birth is on the death index.
Smudwhisk - have you looked at the image or just the free preview? I've found the preview to be pretty inaccurate with the numbers of records closed - in fact I found one yesterday which said "-1 people closed"! I reckon this is a glitch when closed records are open... so your great uncle may not actually be in the same household, but at least you won't have long to wait until his record is opened :)
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Smudwhisk - have you looked at the image or just the free preview? I've found the preview to be pretty inaccurate with the numbers of records closed - in fact I found one yesterday which said "-1 people closed"! I reckon this is a glitch when closed records are open... so your great uncle may not actually be in the same household, but at least you won't have long to wait until his record is opened :)
I've just looked at the free preview. As I know exactly where they were living and all dates of birth, am somewhat uninclined at the moment to pay to view the entry. But, as you say, I only have a year to wait to see if he appears at the same address in the index. :)
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This has been explained several times, but just to reiterate - the £25 charge is levied by TNA, not by FindMyPast. This is not a case of FindMyPast trying to extort extra money from us. They are, in fact, trying to help their subscribers by not asking for the £25.
Anyone who isn't a subscriber shouldn't expect the same concession.
Carol
I know that the charge is levied by TNA.
The point is that we are expected to pay for the privilege of improving the content of the register. A register that FindMyPast, as a commercial organisation, expect to profit from. They should be encouraging everyone to contribute. I have nothing to gain by sending in the information that I have, only the satisfaction of perhaps helping others. I would be willing to do that, but not if I have to pay.
The immediate beneficiaries of our help would be FindMyPast, as they are the ones selling access to the register. They are not doing anyone a favour. The more complete the register can be shown to be, the more attractive it will be to FindMyPast's paying customers.
Whether subscribers to FindMyPast or not, the charge for accessing the register is exactly the same as it is presently a stand-alone facility. The only difference being that a subscriber can send everything to prove a death and not be charged extra. Perhaps, if you have a few to open, and already have the certificates (thereby negating the need to purchase those) taking out a subscription could be beneficial. That way TNA need not be involved so no £25.00 to them.
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Whether subscribers to FindMyPast or not, the charge for accessing the register is exactly the same as it is presently a stand-alone facility. The only difference being that a subscriber can send everything to prove a death and not be charged extra. Perhaps, if you have a few to open, and already have the certificates (thereby negating the need to purchase those) taking out a subscription could be beneficial. That way TNA need not be involved so no £25.00 to them.
A subscription doesn't come cheap! I can't afford to take out a sub to FindMyPast. I wouldn't choose it over Ancestry in any case since Ancestry's parish register collection is more suited to my needs.
And I don't stand to gain much by opening any 1939 households. I have only opened one, but I already know the details of my other relatives who would feature in it. It will be interesting to have a general browse around once it's available on a full sub, but not at this stage.
So my point stands. I would be happy to send in documentation to help release wrongly locked entries, but I'm not prepared to pay anyone for the privilege.
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A subscription doesn't come cheap! I can't afford to take out a sub to FindMyPast. I wouldn't choose it over Ancestry in any case since Ancestry's parish register collection is more suited to my needs.
A subscription is a bit beyond my means too, so I use my local library... has anyone tried submitting proof of death through a library subscription? I'm guessing this isn't possible but I haven't tried.
I've paid myself for 5 households (as the library subscription doesn't cover 1939), so it would be nice if Findmypast enabled pay-per-view people the chance to submit proof of death too.
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A subscription is a bit beyond my means too, so I use my local library... has anyone tried submitting proof of death through a library subscription? I'm guessing this isn't possible but I haven't tried.
I've paid myself for 5 households (as the library subscription doesn't cover 1939), so it would be nice if Findmypast enabled pay-per-view people the chance to submit proof of death too.
I don't think it would be possible as you have to provide a link to a copy of the death cert held on your personal computer.
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Well I've tried every method I can think of and can't find my grandparents and I know exactly where they were living.
I've searched:
Using just names (not a very common one)
Using names of both plus dates of birth
Using surnames and just the borough
Using first names and borough
Using first names and dates of birth
Searching the whole of their road.
I've found it's worth trying date of birth and borough; it will probably be a long list of results but you may well find that by scanning through it, you'll easily spot the names have been mangled during transcription.
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An update on my last post that pursebearer quoted. After contacting FindMyPast twice, I checked again at the weekend and my grandfather is now there, so they must have added to their records. No idea where my grandmother is though, she should be with him.
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I've found it's worth trying date of birth and borough; it will probably be a long list of results but you may well find that by scanning through it, you'll easily spot the names have been mangled during transcription.
Another tip - try the date of birth without the year, sometimes I've found it to be a year or two out (maybe they forgot which year they were born?) and sometimes it's been wildly wrong, e.g. 1872 mistranscribed as 1892.
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I've just emailed FindMyPast as follows:
'My father's record is redacted in 1939 but he died on (date) 1989 - details on GRO death index: (full name, full GRO ref including date of birth).
If that name and d.o.b. match the 1939 entry for (address, TNA ref), will there be any need for a death certificate?'
My point is that his address, marital status, and occupation changed between 1939 and 1989; his name and d.o.b. didn't. So the GRO index contains as much relevant information as the cert would.
I'll post their response here.
Carol
P.S. Luckily I'd written down the TNA ref before they removed it ::)
Added: Standard email arrived within minutes repeating instructions for submitting death cert. Will now try 'Live Chat'.
'Live Chat' referred this to ?someone else and I had an email on 17 Dec refusing my request and asking for the death cert again :(
On 23 Dec I got the same email as everyone else - '2.8 million opened records'. You've guessed it - my father's record is now open as part of FindMyPast's ongoing review - which uses ....(drum roll).... the GRO death index ;D
Carol
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On 23 Dec I got the same email as everyone else - '2.8 million opened records'. You've guessed it - my father's record is now open as part of FindMyPast's ongoing review - which uses ....(drum roll).... the GRO death index ;D
Hurrah! I'm surprised they've managed to implement this so quickly. I thought we'd have to wait a little longer.
I've now managed to find where my grandmother was evacuated to. :)
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Brilliant news Carol and Claire, my father also died in 1989 but was still redacted as of 10 December.
I have mentioned this before although perhaps on another thread: when at a presentation by Myko from FindMyPast I asked why this was so as the magic date of 1991 was mentioned. He said to keep checking as the updating is a constant process, what is redacted one week could very well be open the next. He was right, a few days later both my father and uncle were open, born in 1917 and 1920.
It pays to keep revisiting the site.
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I wonder whether only exact matches with the death register will be opened? At least two of my relatives have got a different year of birth in 1939 to the one in the death index, and sometimes middle names haven't been listed in 1939... and of course there are plenty of mistranscribed dates and ages too. It's amazing how many new records have been revealed, but I would imagine there are lots that won't exactly match the death index and will remain closed.
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There is a contradiction and a discrepancy on what we are being told, I believe.
My mother was born in 1915 and died at age 60.
My father was born in 1916 and died at the end of 1984.
Was the NHS register kept maintained after 1984?
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Yes it was maintained up to 1991,but the facts would only be amended on the 1939 register if they were told. If someone died in hospital there was less chance that the register would be informed.
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Yes it was maintained up to 1991,but the facts would only be amended on the 1939 register if they were told. If someone died in hospital there was less chance that the register would be informed.
One would think that the reverse would happen.
IE. If they died in Hospital one would expect that the register would be updated.
Anyway, both my parents have now turned up on the register.
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I would suggest that as the death index isn't supplied/sold by the GRO after 2007 to the likes of FindMyPast et al, names of those born after 1915 but died after that date won't be updated.
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Well I've solved the mystery as to who the third closed person was with my grandparents on the 1939 Register, there wasn't one. ::) FindMyPast appear to have attached a closed entry from either house adjoining them to my grandparents but the original image (having given in and obtained it for half price credits) shows clearly there are only two closed people in the house with them. :-X
So anyone wondering where a "closed" person is on the index, its quite likely FindMyPast have indexed them with the wrong household. ::)
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Hi, I've found a list of Enumeration District codes, which can be found here:
http://www.oneplacestudy.org/blog/?p=874
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I would suggest that as the death index isn't supplied/sold by the GRO after 2007 to the likes of FindMyPast et al, names of those born after 1915 but died after that date won't be updated.
This business of who is redacted and who is not is confusing me now ??? (doesn't take much these days ;D) Will we ever be able to see those people who were born after 1915 and who died after 2007 ?
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I thought records were opened 100 years after their birthdate
I see that about 0.025% of the population could justly claim that this isn't a good enough threshold
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This business of who is redacted and who is not is confusing me now ??? (doesn't take much these days ;D) Will we ever be able to see those people who were born after 1915 and who died after 2007 ?
At a guess, only when 100 years has passed after their birth, or if somebody submits their death certificate as proof. So more records will be opened year on year, but we'll have to wait a long time to see a lot of people's records opened.
I guess it's the same for people who died overseas.
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This business of who is redacted and who is not is confusing me now ??? (doesn't take much these days ;D) Will we ever be able to see those people who were born after 1915 and who died after 2007 ?
At a guess, only when 100 years has passed after their birth, or if somebody submits their death certificate as proof. So more records will be opened year on year, but we'll have to wait a long time to see a lot of people's records opened.
I guess it's the same for people who died overseas.
As it stands now the full register will be unreduacted [unredacted] by 2039 unless living people (i.e. those older than 100) write to FindMyPast or the GRO and request that their details remain closed.
In the meantime records of those who are at present redacted will be unredacted when FindMyPast or the GRO are provided with proof of their death.
FindMyPast have a team ceking [checking] birth registers and other records in an effort to open as many entries as possible and we the public can help by sending digital copies of death certificates in the cases we are aware of.
Cheers
Guy
PS note to myself check spelling before posting, sorry about the atrocious spelling folks corrections in square brackets.
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This business of who is redacted and who is not is confusing me now ??? (doesn't take much these days ;D) Will we ever be able to see those people who were born after 1915 and who died after 2007 ?
At a guess, only when 100 years has passed after their birth, or if somebody submits their death certificate as proof. So more records will be opened year on year, but we'll have to wait a long time to see a lot of people's records opened.
I guess it's the same for people who died overseas.
As it stands now the full register will be unreduacted by 2039 unless living people (i.e. those older than 100) write to FindMyPast or the GRO and request that their details remain closed.
In the meantime records of those who are at present redacted will be unredacted when FindMyPast or the GRO are provided with proof of their death.
FindMyPast have a team ceking birth registers and other records in an effort to open as many entries as possible and we the public can help by sending digital copies of death certificates in the cases we are aware of.
Cheers
Guy
Thanks for replies clairec666, and as always from Guy clear and concise -
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I'm pretty pleased with the work Findmypast have done so far in opening up records. Found out where a couple of relatives were evacuated to... I have the death certificates, but without knowing where they were registered I couldn't submit them, and thought I'd have to wait more than 10 years to see the records.
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I'm pretty pleased with the work Findmypast have done so far in opening up records.
As am I Claire. I understand that it is a rolling exercise and changes will be found every week, I certainly have found things opened now which were closed previously.
Also would like to commend FindMyPast on the speed at which they are correcting transcription errors, or at least the ones I have recently submitted. :)
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I have a slightly different problem with the 1939 register in which I could not find my grandparents even though both would have been over 100. I have now full access to the register and viewed the records by address and eventually found where they lived. What had happened was when the page was digitised it was not straight ie skewed by about 20 degrees. This meant that the black lines for locked entries were partially covering other entries that should not be locked. I have informed findmypast and hopefully they will correct it.
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Now I've spent a bit of time on this, I've started to appreciate the maps on the preview page more, which seem to be quite specific to the page, rather than what I had thought was just the general area
I wonder if they could have pinpointed Dawn's mystery village problem?
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Some of the pin points on the map are way out - about 12 - 15 miles in three instances. I contacted FindMyPast via LiveChat yesterday and they advised me to submit the details to the support staff by email - support(at)findmypast.co.uk - and they should be able to adjust them.
Pity we can't do it ourselves - after all, many of us know where our grandparents lived! ;)
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Don't know if this is old news or not, but thought it worth reporting that I just got a record un-redacted having found a death registration on familysearch.org in the British Columbia Death Registrations collection (registrations, not index) - downloaded the image - and how I wish British death certificates had all that info on them! - and attached it to the request, which findmypast have approved within 24 hours.
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Really good information to know Aulus. I was discussing with someone the possibly difficulties of having individuals unlocked if they emigrated and died overseas. Something to keep in mind.
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Just had to say...Love your avatar photo Msr.
Carol
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Thanks Carol, I look just the same today. ;)
Susan
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Have you still got the frock though ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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I wonder if anyone would like to have a guess at the purple text for this relative. She would now be 95 but we can't find her. She did not retain contact with her daughter who would like to know what happened to her. It might be a new married name, which could be very helpful. This does not identify a living individual. For example the new married name might be Collier looking at the way the purple text lies.
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I wonder if anyone would like to have a guess at the purple text for this relative. She would now be 95 but we can't find her. She did not retain contact with her daughter who would like to know what happened to her. It might be a new married name, which could be very helpful. This does not identify a living individual.
It has been totally redacted and impossible to read?
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The 1939 register 29 Sep 1939 was so people could get food ration cards during WW2. It later became the NHS register and was continually update until 1991. When men or women registered with a doctor or hospital, those who changed their name regardless of if they married or not their name was changed in the register. You can see the original name crossed thru and you can see a new name. There is a date by the new name and when they moved you can see a 3 letter area code. There is a very good approved FB group helping people you might be interested in joining --https://www.facebook.com/groups/204040569927596/
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That's much appreciated.
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Not fully accurate Cilia, the decision was made in 1938 by those who thought, or knew, that war was coming that a register of all civilians was necessary: forces personnel of course were already registered when enlisted. It didn't happen overnight, the Registration Act had to be written and discussed, which of course took months, finally being passed on 5 September 1939.
Yes, it was to subsequently allow for ration cards to be issued, based on numbers in a family for example, but initially to record everyone and issue then with Identity Cards which had to be carried, and shown when requested.
Quite honestly, it is something I wouldn't object to now.
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I'm with you msr on identity cards. I will never forget, just a few years ago, watching a stage of the Tour de France when two young Dutch lads tried to drive their car in a restricted area. The French police stopped them and then confiscated their identity cards. Those lads were as meek as anything, made not a movement until their cards were returned some while later.
Perhaps they should be reinstated here. I've nothing to hide, so no objections from me.
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I agree as well msr and BumbleB - it would make life a lot simpler in many ways, especially for people who don't drive or have a passport. A friend who has neither had huge problems when asked to provide identity. It threw the people who were asking as they didn't know what else was acceptable.
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I agree as well msr and BumbleB - it would make life a lot simpler in many ways, especially for people who don't drive or have a passport. A friend who has neither had huge problems when asked to provide identity. It threw the people who were asking as they didn't know what else was acceptable.
That concept destroys one of the best things about being British, we are free people who don't have to identify ourselves unless we want to.
By the way a couple of years ago I had to purchase a spare key for my BMW from the main dealer, they had to phone Germany to ask permission even though I was a customer of theirs and known by the manager and many of the staff at the dealers.
The permission was refused unless I could produce my driving licence or other photo ID. I said my driving licence was a pre photo licence and I did not have photo ID.
How was the dilemma resolved I sent a text to the dealers from my phone explaining my old key would not set the car alarm and if I was not sold a new key to secure my car I would hold BMW liable.
I had the key delivered to my house the following day, it had been dispatched from Germany under the VOR procedures.
It seems BMW did not want the bad publicity that would have ensued if my car had been stolen.
Cheers
Guy
PS I learned that trick from an old employer of mine in the 1970s whose Rolls Royce had broken down. He simply abandoned it in the middle of the road, leaving the car keys in the ignition, and phoned the dealership saying it should not have broken down and they better do something about it quick.
The car was quickly recovered, transported thirty miles to the dealer, repaired and transported back to my boss when it was repaired.
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I agree as well msr and BumbleB - it would make life a lot simpler in many ways, especially for people who don't drive or have a passport. A friend who has neither had huge problems when asked to provide identity. It threw the people who were asking as they didn't know what else was acceptable.
That concept destroys one of the best things about being British, we are free people who don't have to identify ourselves unless we want to.
The permission was refused unless I could produce my driving licence or other photo ID. I said my driving licence was a pre photo licence and I did not have photo ID.
How was the dilemma resolved I sent a text to the dealers from my phone explaining my old key would not set the car alarm and if I was not sold a new key to secure my car I would hold BMW liable.
I had the key delivered to my house the following day, it had been dispatched from Germany under the VOR procedures.
It seems BMW did not want the bad publicity that would have ensued if my car had been stolen.
Cheers
Guy
I have been watching a motorway cops programme on TV today, and one suspect refused to identify himself. The police officers said that, in that case, they wanted to take his fingerprint or take a photo of him, he also refused those options.
Usually, if you phone the police up, either on 101 or 999, they usually ask for your date of birth. They have ways and means of identifying people.
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I have been watching a motorway cops programme on TV today, and one suspect refused to identify himself. The police officers said that, in that case, they wanted to take his fingerprint or take a photo of him, he also refused those options.
Usually, if you phone the police up, either on 101 or 999, they usually ask for your date of birth. They have ways and means of identifying people.
Not if you are here illegally they don't. I've got no qualms about identity cards, nothing to hide, nothing to fear. I have no passport or photo driving licence either, so might make life easier for me too.
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If you phone up the Emergency Services on a land line then the operator usually knows your location.
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I'm with you msr on identity cards. I will never forget, just a few years ago, watching a stage of the Tour de France when two young Dutch lads tried to drive their car in a restricted area. The French police stopped them and then confiscated their identity cards. Those lads were as meek as anything, made not a movement until their cards were returned some while later.
Perhaps they should be reinstated here. I've nothing to hide, so no objections from me.
It is a legal requirement in the Netherlands, that some means of identity be carried at all times!
So, while Dutch police are never heavy-handed, the Dutch lads would be quite familiar with the process.
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It is a legal requirement in the Netherlands, that some means of identity be carried at all times!
So, while Dutch police are never heavy-handed, the Dutch lads would be quite familiar with the process.
I think carrying a driving licence whilst driving should be a legal requirement here.
It'd stop all that mucking around,and timewasting if the police stop people,while they try and prove(which they always do eventually) who you are.
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I agree as well msr and BumbleB - it would make life a lot simpler in many ways, especially for people who don't drive or have a passport. A friend who has neither had huge problems when asked to provide identity. It threw the people who were asking as they didn't know what else was acceptable.
That concept destroys one of the best things about being British, we are free people who don't have to identify ourselves unless we want to.
I don't see we would lose our freedom by having an identity card, if it was optional whether we chose to carry it around with us. As others have said, it would make life simpler for non-drivers and those who don't travel abroad.
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Topic locked as it has now got to 26 pages, sprouted legs and walked off in other directions.