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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Silent Night on Thursday 05 November 15 20:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: Silent Night on Thursday 05 November 15 20:50 GMT (UK)
On the 1871 census I've discovered someones place of birth listed, in very clear handwriting, as being "Llannorgansh, Aberdare".   I've tried but can't find any current reference to Llannorgansh. 

Is anyone able to help with information that might pinpoint this place or offer advice as to what it may have been - a street, area, name of a farm etc.

Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 05 November 15 22:29 GMT (UK)
Can you give full details of the persons name and birthyear please so we can look at the entry.  Where they living in Glamorgan in 1871 or elsewhere
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: Cell on Thursday 05 November 15 22:58 GMT (UK)
Hi,
without seeing the entry it would be only  guesses, do you have the ref numbers to the census, or the names of the people so we can look.

(I've tried putting your said  place name into ancestry 1871  as birth place and leaving all fields blank (uk collection)  but can't find the entry you are referring to)

It may be Llan - Ar - "something" (without the  -  in the census)
Or could it even be Llannor Parish ? "Llannorparish" the p looking like the letter g , and the ri together looking like the letter n  so it looks like "Llannorgansh"?
it could be lots of things.

Have you traced the family  back to the 1861 census  , if around in 1861, to see what the person has put as birth place on that census?

Kind Regards
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: Chilternbirder on Thursday 05 November 15 23:34 GMT (UK)
What little Welsh I knew is now very rusty but that name just doesn't look right. I would guess that its either a misreading or an attept to transcribe a Welsh name phonetically.
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: Cell on Friday 06 November 15 04:09 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm going to take a punt and the census entry you have says Glamorganshire Aberdare

Take for instance this one  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gfa/  (you'll need an ancestry to sub to view the link, and be logged in)  . I notice you're researching the surname Wigley by your previous posts.

For others who are subscribers with findmypast etc. :
 Thomas wigley 15 months ,Father's Thomas Wigley ,Mother's Sarah Wigley
(refs are:
Aberdare
Piece:
5406 f,olio: 37 Page Number:20 )

Looking at the birth places on this census, the Glamorgan"sh" (sh - short for shire) can sort of look like " Llannogarnsh " to some . The G can look like an L .

Are these the entries you are referring to? If so, It's Glamorganshire Aberdare

Kind Regards :)
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 06 November 15 06:40 GMT (UK)
Hi

Using Streetmap, they are living here . . . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gfb/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gfb/)

Thomas Street, Cwmdare, (Aberdare), Glamorganshire (CF44)

They are living at
Nos 2&3 Thomas Street which is annotated as a Grocer's Shop


Ray
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: bessant on Saturday 07 November 15 12:29 GMT (UK)
hello there !  thomas st on map is in robertstown . cwmdare is about a mile away and i don't know of a thomas street in cwmdare . aberaman 2 miles away has a thomas terrace and only has about 5 houses.
          bessant
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: bessant on Saturday 07 November 15 12:44 GMT (UK)
hello again....... i agree with "cell" that it is glamorganshire  after looking at it, and a possible abbreviation of glamorganshire was attempted.
                                                                 bessant
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: bessant on Saturday 07 November 15 13:39 GMT (UK)
hello.............no 2 and 3 thomas st robertstown are two houses standing alone from the remainder of the terrace houses in the four streets of the village . they are bigger in height than the rest and may have in the past been a shop! i spoke to a resident of 70 yrs in the street but does not remember it as a shop. a friend of mine owns one of these houses shall ask him if he can help.
                  again bessant
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 07 November 15 22:19 GMT (UK)

If you look at the (actual) census sheets then you also see Wellington and Philip Streets.

Does that fit the geography of where you describe?

Happy to be proved wrong, but were the people questioned alive in/around "1871/81"?

Ray

Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 07 November 15 22:37 GMT (UK)

From the top of the actual census sheet for
 1871 2&3 Thomas Street
 
Civil Parish:     Aberdare
 Town:     [Caendare] Cwmdare?
 County/Island:     Glamorgan
 Country:     Wales
 Registration district:     Merthyr Tydfil
 Sub-registration district:     Aberdare
 ED, institution, or vessel:     16
 Household schedule number:     90
 Piece:     5406
 Folio:     38
 Page Number:     21
 
 F38/P20 for the start of the dwelling, as detailed earlier.

Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 07 November 15 23:01 GMT (UK)

 The first page of the 1871 census "book" RG10 5406 p1 says
 
"That part of the parish of Aberdare called Roberts Town viz: Bridge St Thomas St Phillip St Wellington St and Waterloo Place. South side of Meirion St: part of Mount Pleasant south of Meirion St: part of Meirion St: Part of Heirwaun Road, Railway St., Evan's Place Gile's Court and Weir Place."


 
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: [Ray] on Saturday 07 November 15 23:04 GMT (UK)

No 1 Thomas Street was also annotated as "Bellevue Inn Grocer Shop and Public House" run by David R Thomas.

Ray
Title: Re: Help with place name in Aberdare...
Post by: Silent Night on Tuesday 10 November 15 19:48 GMT (UK)
Solved....

I am deeply grateful to CaroleW, Cell, Peter V Crabb, Ray and Bessant for taking the trouble to answer.
Each of you, in quite separate ways, has contributed to solving my query. Cell's assumptions, without ever having seen the particular entry I was researching, were exactly right.  The "Llannorgansh, Aberdare", despite being so clearly written, is actually "Glamorgansh, Aberdare".  And to Ray - the fact that 1 Thomas Street was once an Inn as well as a grocer shop is relevant to my research. Thank you again to those who took the trouble to answer.  Your efforts have enabled me to close this query.