RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: rusted on Saturday 31 October 15 03:17 GMT (UK)
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I am after the location of "Hard Hills" near Buninyong Vic. looking at various descriptions of the mining happening there, I have come to the conclusion it is possibly between Buninyong and "Black Lead" or "Cambrian Hill", most of the mining reports seem to include talk of Black Lead and the Leigh River.
This is not the same place as "Little Hard Hills" which is a bit further away and would not be described as near Buninyong.
I am reasonably familiar with the Geography of the area but this is a new one.
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Hi rusted,
Not sure if this helps but this ad states
"on the celebrated Hard Hills at Scotchman's near Buninyong"
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article112891295
(near top of second column Prospectus of the Royal Mining etc)
regards
Ros
(by the way there are various mentions on trove of Little Hard Hills near Bunninyong)
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Thanks Ros, I have read all (well lots) of those gold mining stories and ads and prospectuses, thats what gave me the idea that it was near Black Lead/ Cambrian Hill, Scotchmans is right on the nail.
Little Hard hills is (I think) an entirely different place, in the Enfield area 10 or 15 Km further south.
With every single one of my ancestors digging holes searching for yellow metal I come across some strange place names, this lot that lived at Hard Hills then moved to Gumtree (also near Buninyong).
One of them did quite well as the owner of a mine at Black Lead, but I bet he did better from the Pub he built at the mine to take the money back again after he had paid his miners. When that mine ran out there are Ads in the Ballarat papers for quotes to move the Pub to Hiscocks (also Buninyong) where he had another mine.
Shifty schemes galore.
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Sounds like an interesting goldrush family rusted. :)
Just in case you want more reading ;D, here are some articles you may want to browse
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ge2/
cheers,
Ros
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http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&cmd=sp&zix=r&p=303364&st=&s=Hard%20hill&pg=1&m=0&wnb=91772837&c=1&x=143%2E88388&y=%2D37%2E65019&w=10000&mpsec=0 (http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&cmd=sp&zix=r&p=303364&st=&s=Hard%20hill&pg=1&m=0&wnb=91772837&c=1&x=143%2E88388&y=%2D37%2E65019&w=10000&mpsec=0)
Sorry, I didn't shrink the link. But hopefully the link will give you the geographic reference you need.
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Thanks Nettie and Ros for your input.
The spot linked to by Nettie is near Stawell and is not it.
I am reasonably certain from reading more of those mining reports that the Hard Hills I am looking for is the one at Scotchmans, which is also a place that is just another long lost gold field, but it does at least show up on some modern maps.
A lot of gold rushes had a name but were actually a quite small geographical area and once they were done the place didn't exist any more, nothing left but some mounds of dirt and holes.
Its nice to actually go to some of these spots and say to yourself "well great grand dad was born in that paddock"
I find the research and standing on the spot helps to understand the hardships they faced, probably very little you could call a reference, but it does help.
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Try this one.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gep/
Neil
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Thanks Neil
No Guernsey with that one either, if you zoom in on that map between Buninyong and Napoleons you can see Scotcmans Lead, I think the worked area a bit North is possibly it, an area we knew as "The Dredge" when we were young.
Paul
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Better let Geoscience Australia know they are wrong then ::)
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Hi Paul
Have you been onto the Victorian Govt Earth Resources "GeoVic" mapping website? It shows "Mines and Mineral occurrences", but not "Hard Hills". Around Buniyong it includes mines Scotchmans Lead / Scotchmans Co.
Alternatively, if you know the publication in which the place "Hard Hills" appears, you could get the Vic Mines Library to check if that publication has a map showing the location.
Stuart
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Hi
It looks like Hard Hill(s) mine was a common name, using the link posted by Nettie there is a Hard Hill mine south west of Stawell, another Hard Hill mine North West of Ararat and a Hard Hills mine west of Smythesdale. You wouldn't consider any of them as being near Buninyong. Have you tried contacting the Buninyong Historical Society?
Andy
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Hi Neil,
No I don't think Geoscience Aus is wrong, its just one of those names that crop up all over the place. Lots of my ancestors were born, lived and died at places that just don't exist any more, temporary hives of activity given a name, then abandoned. Mosquito, Browns, Italian Gully, Jones Creek, Hiscocks, Gumtree, Chapel Flat, I have Great (great) Grandparents born in all of these ex places and I have tracked them all down, some are easy, Italian gully is on good modern maps but you would struggle to find some of the others.
From those mining reports on Trove it appears Hard Hills was a very short lived rush, quite a few reports of mines being worked out.
Andy and Stuart
The Mines Library and State Library are certainly on my list to visit when I am in melbourne next time, as is the Ballarat Library collection, probably the Buninyong Historical society will be first as I am visiting family there in the next week or so, as long as I can arrange the visit to coincide with open day at the society.
Thanks all for your input. Now for some legwork.
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Paul
As a person interested in placenames and their origins, can I suggest you and others who come across placenames (town, stream, etc names) and can not find the placename, even if it is historical (ie the place no longer exists) in either the GeoScience Australia National Gazetteer or a state gazetteer, send you information to the relevant State geographical / place names Board / Committee. Contact details can be found at http://www.icsm.gov.au/cgna/cgna_members.pdf (http://www.icsm.gov.au/cgna/cgna_members.pdf)
The National Gazetteer is an annual compilation of all state/ territory gazetteers. Whereas State / Territory Gazetteers are mostly updated each night. State / Territory boards / Committees have very limited staff to research placenames and are not proactive in their research.
When submitting a placename, I suggest you include: the source of the placename (ie map, trove reference, etc), LGA, latitude / longitude (or easting / northing)(if known), a description of the feature and where the feature named was located, and any historical information you can provide.
I am a member of the Australian Placenames Survey which is a small group of people attempting to collect the origin of all Australian placenames. We work in conjunction with state/ territory placename boards.
Stuart
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Worth a read if you haven't already?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11554946
Neil
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Thanks Stuart.
I think you have helped me before with some forgotten places.
Is John Tulloch the person to contact for Victorian Place names?
If I can I would love to update knowledge about some of these places.
Going back and rereading a lot of that mining intelligence from Trove I am certain that Hard Hills describes the general country South of Sebastopol, It seems for a short time it became an actual village with shops and hotels, there's talk of following a deep lead onto Mr Yuilles station which is Sebastopol/ish, a lot of talk about Leigh River now named Yarrowee Creek, Black lead which is West/ish of Cambrian Hill towards Napoleons, Buninyong cemetery, Scotchmans, Magpie at the foot of Sebastopol.
Now all I need is a map from the 1850s of the area.
Paul
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Thats a good find Neil.
My G G grandfather worked in the Imperial mine mentioned there. A large hammer fell down the shaft and hit him so there's a report of the accident. Ballarat Star 14 Dec 1868.
So much information in that article, its a real keeper.
Paul
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A map is available - will send PM, it now is free to download.
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This morning I went across to Buninyong and visited the Historical Society. I found quite a bit of extra information about my Collas ancestors in Buninyong but also found a fantastic map that shows exactly where Hard Hills and Gumtree was.
For the information of anyone searching and finding this thread in future, Gumtree is about700m almost directly South of the Cemetery, Hard Hills is in the same direction about 1.5Km.
To get there, turn South at the Thomas Hiscock Gold discovery cairn on the main road.
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"Scotchmans" was renamed "Scotchmans Lead" by the City of Ballarat in 2004, due to confusion with nearby Scotsburn.
Regards, Ron