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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 03:26 GMT (UK)

Title: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 03:26 GMT (UK)
I'm looking for some help to fill in some gaps please.

I have Matilda Annie Geary marrying Wilby Morton Ollivier in Fiji in December 1874. The marriage notice says her father is "the late" Edward Geary.

I have found a death in NSW in 1855 for an Edward Geary aged 40 who may or may not be him.

Matilda Annie Ollivier died in NSW in 1942 aged 90. Father is named as Edwin - no mother named.

On the NSW Justice site I found a marriage in 1848 - in fact there were three entries which all looked like the same marriage for Edward Geary to Agnes Bradford or Agnes Dust. I don't know  why three entries or the surname anomaly. :-\

I can't see a birth for Matilda Annie Geary in NSW around 1852. I did consider that she may have been born elsewhere in Australia or even in the UK. I have seen her first names swapped around just to confuse matters.

Any clues or assistance gratefully received. I've tried numerous combinations of names and events but am hoping I missed something obvious and someone can spot something I have missed.

Thanks in advance.

Added: I have plenty about Wilby, it's just Matilda Annie I am looking for.
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 03:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Ruskie,

No, not an anomaly, just pre-civil registration admin, so the marriage is recorded in several parish registers.

Back in 1810, under Gov Lachlan Macquarie, a Scotman, he issued General Orders re Baptisms and Burials and later Marriages.    He needed statistical info for WhiteHall funding.    So he required the clergy of all denominations to transmit to the NSW Chaplains on a quarterly basis a summary of their baptisms/burials/weddings.   He did NOT provide the clergy with funding to carry out this secular task.   Not all clergy obeyed, and not all the transmitted records arrived at the NSW Chaplain at St Philips C of E, Sydney,  BUT many records did.    So regardless of the denomination, they were written up in the C of E registers.    Then over time, NSW legislation allowed for the various denominations to keep their own registers and therefore the outlying districts clergy transmitted directly to their own denomination's "Head Office/Diocese"   ..... 

When NSW BDM was established and commenced civil registration processes, many of those Early Church Records were passed over to NSW BDM.

Anyways, longer story, shortened :  You can often find up to five entries (different reference nos) at NSW BDM for the one baptism, or burial or wedding when it is part of their holdings for Early church records (ECRs).     

You write that you have found a death in 1855 in NSW BDM, it is not a death certificate but only a burial certificate (so with very little family history info, as scant as say a UK burial order)..... 

The 1848 marriage entries at NSW BDM ..... sometimes you can find these at familysearch, and while, like the NSW BDM index, they too are transcriptions, there's often more info to be gleaned from the familysearch index.  I am not sure if they have reached the Sydney Presbyterian ones as yet.   

https://familysearch.org/search  search records by location is often a better option for Australia or NZ records....   https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927080 

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/early-church-codes.aspx

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 03:53 GMT (UK)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZ3-868   ;D

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Raylen on Thursday 29 October 15 03:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Ruskie


Could this be her birth in NSW with misspelt surname?

2097/1852 V18522097 38A
GAREY    MATILDA A    
Father:  EDWARD    Mother:  AGNES

Raylen
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 04:01 GMT (UK)
Well found Raylen,

Two entries, one local and one transmitted  :)  Vol 38 definitely C of E  :)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTHN-H45  Albury NSW 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT6K-SYC
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 29 October 15 05:10 GMT (UK)
On the 13th instant, at his residence, Wheatsheaf Inn, George- street South, Mr. Edward Geary, in his 40th year.
The Sydney Morning Herald  Wednesday 14 November 1855


It would appear that Agnes was previously married. Here is the marriage of a daughter.

MARRIAGES.   
On the 24th August, by special licence, at St. Mary's Cathedral,   by the Rev. Father M'Girr, Mr. John Hennessy, to Miss Elizabeth DUIST, stepdaughter of the late Mr. Edward GEARY, both of Sydney.

The Sydney Morning Herald   Saturday 7 September 1861


A Law notice about the creditors of the above Edward  GEARY (deceased)  and Agnes
The Sydney Morning Herald  Monday 28 December 1857

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13004431

Sue
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 29 October 15 06:50 GMT (UK)
Here is a brother for Matilda Annie GAREY, Alfred. Also at Albury.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTHN-HG9

Sue
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 29 October 15 08:20 GMT (UK)

Unassisted arrivals NSW

DUST Mrs, 3Dau  " Comet"  status  P
arrived 15 Oct 1847
post of origin   Port Nicholson   reference 1274
Remarks............ & Queen Charlotte Sound in SMH

Do you have witnesses names for the 1874 marriage certificate?
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 09:11 GMT (UK)
Re the death in 1855 for an Edward Geary aged 40 ……

Edward GAREY, transported to NSW on the John, 1832, received CoF 39/0641, 1 May 1839.

Edward GAREY, ex John, convicted Lancaster (or Liverpool Quarter Sessions as per another record), Lancs, 10 Jan 1831, 7 years.

Edward GAREY aged 19, 7 years, ex John, assigned to Edward McDowell, Sydney

John (3) arrived Sydney 8 June 1832

Certificate of Freedom
39/641
1 May 1839
Prisoner’s No. 32/1200
Edward GAREY
Ship : John 3,  Ship’s Master : Lowe
Arrived 1832
Native Place : Manchester
Trade or Calling :  Labourer
Offence:  House Breaking
Place of Trial: Lancaster QS
Date of Trial: 10 January 1831
Sentence: Seven Years
Year of Birth: 1814
Height: 5 feet 9 Inches
Complexion  Ruddy & much freckled
Hair Brown
Eyes Blue
General Remarks  Large broad scar under left Jaw.  Scar inside right Wrist.

Edward GAREY, aged 16, convicted at Salford, 10 Jan 1831, received 23 Feb 1831 at the Prison Hulk Justitia moored Woolwich.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 09:22 GMT (UK)
1837 Convict Muster, NSW.
Edward GEARY, aged 19, per Westmoreland 1832, assigned to William BOWMAN, Maneroo.  (Maneroo = Monaro)

http://www.monaropioneers.com/convicts/muster1837a.htm#G

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 12:45 GMT (UK)
 :o What wonderful information has been found! Thank you very much to JM, Raylen, Sue and Wivenhoe.

It is all fitting together very nicely. Dust/Duist (makes good sense), as does Geary/Garey.  ;D

Wivenhoe, no I don't have the 1874 marriage certificate I'm afraid.

And another convicted criminal (number three for this family I am researching).  ;D

Now to properly digest all of this information.  ;D Thanks again to you all - you have given me so much more than expected.

Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 13:37 GMT (UK)
Would you expect to see parent's names on an 1848 NSW marriage certificate? :-\
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 29 October 15 20:31 GMT (UK)

SMH 16 Feb 1858
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13006329?
Mrs Agnes GEARY.......of the Wheatsheaf Inn......W M BROWN 

98/1858  BROWN William m. GEARY Agnes                  Sydney   (Feb 1858)

Evening News 26 Aug 1885
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/111022515?
divorce for this couple.......married Feb 1868...was a widow with five children....adultery and cruelty....Ellen CAMERON...
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 20:55 GMT (UK)
Ah ha, Thanks Wivenhoe!  :) Great finds.

Last night at about midnight I discovered that Agnes had remarried to Mr Brown after the death of Edward Geary. The address of Wheatsheaf Inn tallies with Sue's reply at #5 as the address of Edward Geary when he died.  :)

I also woke up this morning (after nowhere near enough sleep) thinking about Edward's lowly and criminal past and wondering if there is any way to find some extra snippet that proves that we have the right Edward Geary? I know that the year of birth tallies, but I had a moment of doubt when I realised what different worlds Matilda Annie and her husband Wilby must have come from. I suppose it is possible that Edward turned his life around, was successful and perhaps didn't tell anyone about his past. Still, I would like something extra to prove that my Edward and convict Edward were one and the same.

Can anyone think of how I might do this?  :-\
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: rosball on Thursday 29 October 15 22:16 GMT (UK)
There is a probate packet at NSW state records for Edward Dust also known as Edwin Geary who died 9 Dec 1855.
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\306501

I can photograph this for you the next time I am there

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Thursday 29 October 15 22:43 GMT (UK)
Would you expect to see parent's names on an 1848 NSW marriage certificate? :-\

Hit and miss, so to write.   
 
If either party is under 21 years, then you expect to see name and relationship of person giving consent.

Images of NSW C of E marriages from that era are found via RChat's NSW Resources Board and live links to Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle parish registers (earliest from about 1820, and continuing into 20th Century too). 

Here:   
Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 – 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/ 1826 – 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/ 1837 – 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/ 1839 – 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605674610949/ 1856 – 1868 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605785759029/ 1869 – 1885 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605802132868/ 1885 – 1897 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606197590347/ 1899 – 1913 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605928662968/ 1913 – 1914 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606308436455/ 1914 – 1916 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606323070651/ 1916 – 1918 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606450662513/ 1918 – 1929 Marriage Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606952230042/ 1929 – 1936 Marriages Register

ADD, On several of my ancestors 1840s NSW marriage certs, you can see where the Rev'd has recorded their age (often in white space to the left where they would sign).     On the Newcastle images you can see where the Rev'd there has sometimes recorded the age, and sometimes the ship of arrival too.    Usually this is where either bride or groom is still serving a sentence, and so the register would also record "with permission of the Governor".      Sometimes the age is recorded even when both are over 21, and both were born in the colony.   There was no auditor/regulator checking that the clergy of each denomination all recorded same depth of information as each other, (or even if same clergyman was consistent in what he recorded).....  hence my Hit and miss expression....  :D .   The C of E Family sheet register is an alternative, however, these are not as well conserved, and many simply have been lost over the decades.....  And, not all denominations had a similar "cheat sheet" option for their clergy even for those on rural circuits. 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 29 October 15 23:38 GMT (UK)
ooh thank you JM! Both parties were well past the age of 21.
Investigating your links now.  :)

Ros, many thanks for the kind offer to photograph the probate packet. If it is not too much of an imposition I would be grateful if you could please take a look at it to see if there are any clues as to his place of birth or other evidence that may indicate that this Edward was the convict Edward Geary. The finer points are not really required.

Is it odd that he is also known by his wife's surname Dust?  :-\

Looking at similar era marriages, it's not looking too promising regarding additional information (and clues as to Edward's origins) ...
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 00:04 GMT (UK)
Not odd that different surnames used.   It depends on who recorded the info and how it was obtained, and what question was asked to obtain it.

Almost all info collected in the 19th century by NSW officialdom was recorded by the person asking the questions, rather than by the informant.    So there can be plenty of apparent flaws where for example if the question asked was :
"Who is THY father" the respondent hears this as "Who is THE father" ..... particularly interesting when the informant is registering the birth of a child .....  (or even worse "who is THY/THE mother ! for a NSW birth registration ...... I say no more  :-X )

Thy v The can be complicated further by the accents of the questioner and the informant  :-X   and the Thy v The confusion existed in rural NSW at least, well into the 1950s and 1960s ....  particularly so where Grandparents lived with baby boomer babies.   8) 8)  8)

Cheers,  JM  PS I added to the earlier post.   :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 30 October 15 00:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much JM for the clarification and further information.  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 30 October 15 00:36 GMT (UK)
Doing a bit of digging, I found that the licence for the Wheatsheaf Inn was transferred to Edward Garry [sic] (presumably meant to be Geary  :-\) on 4th Sept 1855. Edward died 13 Nov 1855.  :(

Now I am curious to discover what he did prior to becoming a licensee of the Wheatsheaf ...  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 00:46 GMT (UK)
NSW State Records
Publican's Licences Index  :)

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/professions-and-occupations/publicans/copy_of_publicans-licences

Edward Geary, Woolpack Inn,  19 April1853 ... on the Sydney and Melbourne Road,  Little Billybong, Wagga.

Edward Geary, Woolpack Inn, 18 April 1854 .... on the Melbourne and Sydney Roads, Wagga

Cheers,  JM


Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 00:49 GMT (UK)
Ummm.... perhaps stretching the dots a tad too far but

Edward HEALY, Wheat Sheaf Inn, George Street, Sydney 24 June 1842....  Could Healy be a mis-heard  or mis-transcribed Geary?

Cheers,  JM (NSW SR's indexes are sortable by clicking on any heading, similar process to NSW BDM headings)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 01:01 GMT (UK)
There's a submitted tree at Ancestry, has Edward GEARY male born 1815,  married Agnes RADFORD Sydney 1848, death 1855 Australia cites Victoria BDM V1884874-78/1848 for the Sydney marriage.... (JM notes this is errr ..... odd, as Vic not hived off NSW until 1851 !)

However, for Agnes they have
Born about 1814, Devon, and a sister for Agnes as Elizabeth RADFORD 1821 - 1898
Agnes marrying about 1835, Dronmore, Down, Ireland to James DUST (1806 - )
Children for Agnes and James DUST as Elizabeth, born 1837 Dublin and Emma born 18 June 1841 Devonport Devon  Emma as 1841-1891
Immigration 28 November 1842 to New Plymouth, NZ
Edwin DUST born New Zealand 1845-1885
Arrival Port Jackson, (Sydney) NSW 15 October 1847
Marriage 1848 to Edward Geary Sydney
1855 death of Edward Geary
1858 marriage to William Brown
1885 Death at Ashfield NSW of Edwin DUST 1845-1885
1891 death of daughter Emma, Sydney NSW
1898 15 December, death at Nelson, NZ, of Agnes' sister, Elizabeth.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 01:15 GMT (UK)
Agnes GEAREY takes on the Wheatsheaf Inn publican's licence 15 April 1856   ..... I think that confirms the death of Edward in 1855 as her husband  :) despite the spelling of her surname  :)

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=69&new=1

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 30 October 15 02:19 GMT (UK)
SMH 11 Sep 1866
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13136613?
for this marriage -

NSW BDM marriage
731/1866  GULLICK William R m. DUST Emma        Sydney

death
4583/1891  GULLICK Emma parents James / Agnes    Burwood
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 03:24 GMT (UK)
Sands 1858 Sydney directory
Agnes GEARY, Wheat Sheaf Inn, 749 George Street  (JM adds this is Sydney CBD)
John GEARY, carpenter, 44 Mount Street, Pyrmont
William BROWN, Wheatsheaf, 749 George St

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 03:37 GMT (UK)
NSW ER 1870 EAST SYDNEY
Edwin GEARY, (residence) Riley St,  (Qualification office,  185 Pitt Street
Thomas GEARY, junior,  Macquarie St residence
Thomas GEARY, Macquarie St, residence

NSW ER 1878 EAST SYDNEY
Edwin GEARY, residence, 251 Forbes St,
John GEARY, 31 Blackburn St
Thomas GEARY, Macquarie St
Thomas GEARY, 3 Bourke St

NSW ER 1870 WEST SYDNEY
John GEARY, household, 15 Swan St

Sands directories City of Sydney online free to search
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory

Assessment Books City of Sydney online free to search
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/house-and-building-histories/assessment-books

Maps City of Sydney online free to search
http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/scripts/home.asp

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Dundee on Friday 30 October 15 03:46 GMT (UK)
There is a probate packet at NSW state records for Edward Dust also known as Edwin Geary who died 9 Dec 1855.
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\306501

I can photograph this for you the next time I am there

cheers,
   Ros

Ros that should be 1885 not 1855 and is for the son.

If Agnes arrived from NZ with three daughters/three children then who is "Edwin DUST born New Zealand 1845-1885"?

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12895545

3472/1885
GEARY, EDWIN
Parents: JAMES & AGNES
ASHFIELD

3472/1885
DUST, EDWIN
Parents: JAMES & AGNES
ASHFIELD

Debra  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 04:00 GMT (UK)
I cannot find Edwin's likely birth/baptism at New Zealand BDM online  ::)
And I cannot find demise of Agnes' James DUST either  ::)

I am not much chop when I step outside of NSW  :-X

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: rosball on Friday 30 October 15 04:23 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Dundee link=topic=733997.msg5793946#msg5793946

Ros that should be 1885 not 1855 and is for the son.

Debra  :)

Whoops thanks Debra.

Here is a death notice for Edwin GEARY in 1885
 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13605920
aged 40 years with wife and 5 children.

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 30 October 15 04:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you all once again. I have a lot to go through to get it all straight in my head. I will be back.

Very grateful for all the help.  ;D
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 30 October 15 05:13 GMT (UK)
Going back a step or two and thinking about Edward's transportation, is anyone able to explain the following?:

From JM's reply #8:

Edward GAREY, ex John, convicted Lancaster (or Liverpool Quarter Sessions as per another record), Lancs, 10 Jan 1831, 7 years.
Edward GAREY aged 19, 7 years, ex John, assigned to Edward McDowell, Sydney


And from JM's reply #9:

1837 Convict Muster, NSW.
Edward GEARY, aged 19, per Westmoreland 1832, assigned to William BOWMAN, Maneroo.  (Maneroo = Monaro)


Similar names, similar ages, similar dates, but different ships and different assignees.  :-\ The same lad or two different lads?  :-\

Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: sparrett on Friday 30 October 15 06:30 GMT (UK)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Blenheim42.htm

This link for your interest to the immigration of the DUST family group to NZ.
Gives a couple more details.

The tree( linked by JM) gives a date of birth for Emma of 18th June 1841.
Arrival date of the Blenheim was 19th November 1842 and Emma's  age given as 9 months.

So an error somewhere perhaps.

Births Sep  1/4 1841 

DUST  Emma
Stoke Damerel  9/ 419

Sue

Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: rosball on Friday 30 October 15 06:49 GMT (UK)
Let me try again ...  ;D

There is a probate packet for Edward GEARY who died 13 Nov 1855
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\228861

I can photograph this for you Ruskie  :)

cheers,
   Ros
(adding : I'll photograph the highlights of both 1855 and 1885 )
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 30 October 15 09:19 GMT (UK)


"..Children for Agnes and James DUST as Elizabeth, born 1837 Dublin "

Possibly....

NSW BDM marriage
579/1861  HENNESSY John  m.   DUIST Elizabeth        SYDNEY

death
15644/1902  HENNESSY Elizabeth parents John / Agnes               Redfern
14976/1899  HENNESSY John parents John / Catherine                Redfern

SMH 11 Dec 1899
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14241482?
death of John HENNESSY...residence 21 Bullanaming  Street Redfern

Australian Town and Country Journal 3 Dec 1902
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/71496134?
death Elizabeth HENNESSY relict of John HENNESSY....residence 21 Bullanaming St...65 years
(b. ~ 1837)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Friday 30 October 15 10:18 GMT (UK)
Going back a step or two and thinking about Edward's transportation, is anyone able to explain the following?:

From JM's reply #8:

Edward GAREY, ex John, convicted Lancaster (or Liverpool Quarter Sessions as per another record), Lancs, 10 Jan 1831, 7 years.
Edward GAREY aged 19, 7 years, ex John, assigned to Edward McDowell, Sydney


And from JM's reply #9:

1837 Convict Muster, NSW.
Edward GEARY, aged 19, per Westmoreland 1832, assigned to William BOWMAN, Maneroo.  (Maneroo = Monaro)


Similar names, similar ages, similar dates, but different ships and different assignees.  :-\ The same lad or two different lads?  :-\

Good question.

Should be two separate men, but …… in following up on Edward McDowell I can see that he went to VDL. 

Edward McDowell was meant to be the  NSW Solicitor General from late 1831 but he took too long to take up his duties, and ended up in VDL instead.   He had arrived on the Bussorah Merchant in Dec 1831. 
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/macdowell-edward-2397   He is famous for defending Martin Cash, “THE” bushranger.      Edward McDowell married in 1835 in Tasmania, and Alfred Stephen witnessed that marriage.  Alfred Stephen was a Judge of the NSW Supreme Court, and became Chief Justice of NSW, and was a pew holder, next to one of my direct ancestors,  at Christ Church St Lawrence, Sydney.  So I have gone through my own family papers to see if perhaps there’s a note suggesting the Stephen family took on an Edward GAREY.    Alas, no sighting for Edward there. https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD36-1-2p197j2k
The NSW State Records has Edward GAREY ex the vessel John of 1832 with a CoF 1 May 1839, #39/0641

As I wrote earlier, Should be two separate men, but …… in following up on William Bowman, Monaro Pioneer …. Well of course, look to my avatar ….. A Bowman descendant ….. alas, yet again I cannot find Edward Geary mentioned in any of my own family papers….
The NSW State Records does NOT have Edward Geary ex the Westmoreland at its Convict Index.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65&new=1 
I cannot see how the Westmoreland could have arrived in 1832, it seems to have been launched in that year.  I think the first voyage of the Westmoreland 1835, carried male convicts, none with first name of Edward, none with surname commencing with G
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmoreland_(1832_ship)

So, instead of saying “Good Question” ….. I am upgrading that comment to
Excellent Question Ruskie” ….
We need Dundee’s investigative skills to help sort this out.     
One of my sources includes the Biological Database of Australia.
http://www.bda-online.org.au/

JM STUMPED ….. by Ruskie

Cheers,  JM  ::)  ::)  ::)  ;D  ;D  ;D  8)  8)  8)  :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 30 October 15 14:07 GMT (UK)
I'm cross with myself - I just typed out a witty reply thanking you all once again, but stupidly closed the window.  >:(

Too late to retype in detail but thank you all once again.

Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Friday 30 October 15 14:20 GMT (UK)
According to convict records there is NO Edward GEARY but only Edward GAREY per John 1832.
http://www.convictrecords.com.au/search/results

Neil ::)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 01 November 15 11:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the link Neil.

So that that mean that this is information is incorrect?: :-\

1837 Convict Muster, NSW.
Edward GEARY, aged 19, per Westmoreland 1832, assigned to William BOWMAN, Maneroo.  (Maneroo = Monaro)

http://www.monaropioneers.com/convicts/muster1837a.htm#G

I can see how the surnames Garey and Geary could be confused, (but they are also surnames in their own right), so I am unsure if that is the case here, or if my Edward Geary is a different chap altogether.  :-\
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Sunday 01 November 15 16:52 GMT (UK)
I can find several entries for the Ship Westmorland transporting IRISH convicts, but none seem to be in 1832. If there was an Edward GEARY then he may have been Irish. I can't seem to find much?
http://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_westmoreland_1835.htm

Neil
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 01 November 15 21:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Neil.

That is odd.

I did initially wonder if Geary might be an Irish name (McGeary), (but hoping it isn't). Both Geary and Garey are English surnames.
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Sunday 01 November 15 21:54 GMT (UK)
No, it doesn't mean the info is incorrect.  Perhaps it is indicating that who-ever asked that 19 year old Edward GEARY for details of his ship of arrival simply did not bother to check if the info was correct. Perhaps it is indicating that the NSW admin officials did not check the accuracy of the info sent from Monaro to Sydney as part of that 1837 Muster.  (If either of these options were correct, it is possible that at least one of my ancestors handled the paperwork.  I have paper-pushers in NSW Col Sec office from Macquarie's era, and settlers in the Monaro from same era too). 

Thanks for the link Neil.

So that that mean that this is information is incorrect?: :-\

1837 Convict Muster, NSW.
Edward GEARY, aged 19, per Westmoreland 1832, assigned to William BOWMAN, Maneroo.  (Maneroo = Monaro)

http://www.monaropioneers.com/convicts/muster1837a.htm#G

I can see how the surnames Garey and Geary could be confused, (but they are also surnames in their own right), so I am unsure if that is the case here, or if my Edward Geary is a different chap altogether.  :-\

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Sunday 01 November 15 21:57 GMT (UK)
So there's a lad, Edward GEARY (or variations) in 1837 recorded in the Muster as being assigned to William BOWMAN, in the Monaro district.

I will see if I can find others assigned to William in that muster, and then check the accuracy of that info too.   :)

Back later !

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 01 November 15 22:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks JM.  ;D

I can understand an admin error, but I can't see the point of Edward saying he arrived on the Westmoreland if he arrived on the John ....
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Sunday 01 November 15 22:30 GMT (UK)
Waiting for this ?  Well I am now coming to the view that I need to doubt the integrity of the info supplied by W Bowman....  perhaps there's a visit to Qld State Library .....

Gleaned from an online index  :  (I haven't got to my own documents at the mo)

1837 General Muster (December) Assigned to W BOWMAN, Maneroo:

Robert BARRICOT,28, per Marquis of Huntley 1827
William BYRNE, 20, per James Laing 1834
John DRUMGALD, alias John McCormick, 23, tried Lancaster, per Westmoreland 1835
Edward GEARY, 19 per Westmoreland 1832
William JOHNSTONE, 25, per James Laing 1834
Isaac LUCAS, 29, per Lady Feversham 1830  (Ticket of Leave 1839, to remain in district of Melbourne)
Duncan McKEY, 30, per Hercules 1832
John NORRIS, 22, per Hercules 1832
William PRICE, 20, per Mangles 1833
William ROBINSON, 30, per Clyde 1832
John SCOTT, 35, per Henry Tanner 1834
Henry SHARLACKER, 70, her Henry Tanner 1834

The 1837 General Muster 31 Dec 1837.    It might be worthwhile checking if the State Library of Queensland has reels, or perhaps Ancestry library version will have the 1837 General Muster for New and Norfolk Island. 
TNA (Kew, England) Reel PRO 71-71 (oops, a typo, should be 71-72), Vol 10/32-35 
http://heritagegenealogy.com.au/blog/nsw-censuses-and-musters/

and

http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/131204/SLQ_Info_Guide_3_19_-_Census_records_2014_02.pdf General Return of Convicts in NSW, 1837 (FAMHIS 929.3994 1987)

and

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/indexes-to-convict-records  You can search by ship or by convict.   I have had a quick check, and I umm…. there’s reason to doubt the accuracy of the info on the Maneroo General Muster of 1837 as per those assigned to W Bowman.  (particularly ships of arrival not matching up with NSW State Records index)

Cheers,  JM   :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Sunday 01 November 15 22:39 GMT (UK)
The Ship JOHN 1832 it's voyage and minor passenger info, nothing on Geary/Garay.
http://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_john_1832.htm

Just a little snipet from my long past. I know of a fellow surname GARAY who hails from the MONARO region, now lives in ACT. ::)

Neil
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 01 November 15 22:45 GMT (UK)
Very interesting JM. Why do you think Mr Bowman may have supplied inaccurate information?  :-\

I have to go out shortly so will have to get back to this later, but looking at your first link I notice there was a census taken in 1828. Do you think it would be worth seeing if Edward is included?

Just saw your post Neil. Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Sunday 01 November 15 22:50 GMT (UK)
 :)   

If Mr Bowman had 'no time' for officialdom or perhaps was out of sorts on 31 Dec 1837 or perhaps it was the weather or the whether to/ or whether not to ..... some of my Bowman lot could be quite contrary.

There's also an 1841 census .... Ancestry has a partnership arrangement with NSW State Records.... so 1828 and 1841 images are available.  1841 is not much chop, fragments only.  perhaps Maneroo is in the ones that were not lost.

Cheers,  JM 
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 02 November 15 04:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks JM - I will see if I can find Edward in the censuses.  :)

Added: no, nothing found I'm afraid.
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 02 November 15 05:26 GMT (UK)
Matilda Annie.
BIRTH Registration.
MATILDA A GAREY - FATHER EDWARD, MOTHER AGNES Church 2097/1852 V18522097 38A

Possibly JM can let you know where this registration comes from ???

Neil
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Monday 02 November 15 05:33 GMT (UK)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTHN-H45

Albury  C of E :)   :)  still   :P

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 02 November 15 05:39 GMT (UK)
Something is wrong with my puter or the NSW BDM as when I look up on normal parameters it doesn't come up, but used wildcards and it does ??? ??? ??? ???

I think there was a brother Alfred, but cant find anything now..... ::)

Can you check JM ::)

Neil
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 02 November 15 05:45 GMT (UK)
DOH ::) Don't bother, it was the nut behind the wheel that was crook. ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)

ALFRED GAREY 2096/1849 V18492096 38A

Neil

Added, Maybe Edward/Edwin Geary/Garay/Garey was DYSLEXIC ???
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Monday 02 November 15 05:54 GMT (UK)
From the List of Male Convicts, by the ship JOHN (3) Samuel John LOWE, master.  NSW 1832
Standing No. of Convict 32- 1200
Indent no. 73
Edward GAREY, 19, Read, Protestant, Single, native place of Manchester, Gardener’s boy, housebreaking, Lancaster Quarter Session, 10 Jan 1831,  7 years;      FORMER CONVICTION  1 Month,  7 Days;      5 ft 0 inches, Ruddy  and much freckled, Brown hair, Blue to grey eyes,  diseased under left jaw
C39/641   


From a different resource (sorry for duplicating info, but it is from a different resource and it cross references info from the List of Male Convicts )
the image of  Certificate of Freedom’s butt C39/641

1 May 1839
32/1200
Edward GAREY
John 3
Lowe
1832
Manchester
Labourer
House Breaking
Lancester QS
10 Jan 1831
Seven Years
1814
5 ft 9 inches
Ruddy and much freckled
Brown
Blue
Large broad scar under left jaw
Scar inside right wrist.

So I am thinking Edward Carey, ex the John (3) grew in height during his later youthful years. 

I am still concerned with trying to find this elusive Edward GEARY ex the Westmoreland.  I am wondering if 1832 is a mis-read of 1835.  However, I am not convinced that W Bowman was a reliable scribe on that 1837 muster.

Can we figure out about the former convictions, ..... perhaps some variations in spelling in say a Lancs newspaper from the 1820s  or 1830 or perhaps the trial for housebreaking Jan 1831 ....

Cheers,  JM  (nothing Odd about the Nut behind the wheel, all wheel nuts are significant for driving any vehicle forward)...
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Monday 02 November 15 06:22 GMT (UK)
Interim info:

TNA ref HO 10 10/33
GEARY Edward, 19, Westmorland, 1832, W Bowman, Monaroo 

Edward GEARY 31 July 1832,
Source seems to be the NSW Government Gazette Convict Assignments

And NSW Gazette Indexes
Edward GEARY, 13 Nov 1855 Death. 

And
Edward GEARY, publican, died 13 Nov 1855, aged 40, George St, buried 14 November 1855, Camperdown.  NSW 
Source mentions family.search but does not indicate if it is ‘extracted’ or ‘submitted’

And
Edward GEARY, 40, V1855, line 770, Vol 43A   Camperdown/Newtown. 

NSW Government Gazette early issues are found (according to RChat Resources thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0  ) at Victoria’s Govt  Gazette. Online site. 
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/   


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Monday 02 November 15 06:37 GMT (UK)
"EXTRACTED"  historic records  :)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTHR-BZ8

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: majm on Monday 02 November 15 09:50 GMT (UK)
Old thread re St Stephens, Camperdown Cemetery.  Some of the live links may still be working.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=144332.0

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 06 November 15 10:48 GMT (UK)
So sorry JM. I somehow missed your last couple of messages. Thank you for all of your help.  :)
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Nameerf on Monday 11 November 19 23:56 GMT (UK)
Agnes Radford
from MyHeritage
FamilySearch Family Tree
Birth:   Circa 1814 - of, Diocese of Down and Connor and Dromore, Ulster Province, Ireland
Death:   New South Wales, Australia
Spouses:   James Dust, Edward Geary
Children:   Elizabeth Dust, Emma Gullick (born Dust), Edwin Dust

from NSW BDM
BROWN  AGNES 137/1882 AGE 69 YEARS DIED SYDNEY SYDNEY

I think this Agnes who died may be the same one who died in the Hyde Park Asylum in 1881

Regards
David
Title: Re: GEARY NSW
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 27 November 19 22:43 GMT (UK)
Sorry for the late reply David, and thanks for the information.  :)

This is a fairly old thread so I need to go back to refresh my memory before continuing this line of research.

Are you a descendant of any of these couples?