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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: margaret h on Wednesday 21 October 15 20:06 BST (UK)

Title: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Wednesday 21 October 15 20:06 BST (UK)
Please could someone look up this death for me. Sarah Hodgkins born Ham, England 1830. Came over as wife of Frederick Hodgkins of Ist Batt 12th Foot on the Empress Eugenie in 1854 and died in Melbourne between Nov 1854 and 1857 but can't find record of that death. Thank you so much.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: MargP on Wednesday 21 October 15 20:52 BST (UK)
I have asked Sarah to move this the open, Australia forum, it is a new request and not complete

Margp
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: warncoort on Thursday 22 October 15 01:32 BST (UK)
What are her parents' names?
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 03:05 BST (UK)
Her death wasn't registered if she did die in the Colony of Victoria between 1854 and 1857.

Have you taken the year 1854 from this event or the arrival of the barque EMPRESS EUGENIE?

Birth
HODGKINS Unnamed Female
Father Frederick  Mother Sarah CHAMBERS
At Sea  1854  Reg#224M  M=Marine

The Colony of Victoria commenced civil registration in Jul 1853 and there are many missing registrations for a number of reasons, including the failure to register events or events registered with the local registrar that simply didn't reach the Victorian Registry. 

Frederick may have been with the 1st Batt 12th Foot at the Eureka Stockade at Ballarat.

Is this their marriage?

Marriages Mar 1853 
CHAMBERS    Sarah        Richmond Sry    2a/267    
HODGKINS    Frederick    Richmond Sry    2a/267

And the 1857 from this event in Tasmania

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8784316
The Colonial Times 15 Jan 1857
MARRIED. 
On the 13th instant, by special license, at St. George's Church, Hobart Town, by the Rev Henry Phibbs ?Fry, D.D., FREDERICK HODGKINS, colour-serjeant H.M. 12th Regiment of Infantry, to MISS ANNE GIBSON, only daughter of the late Thomas Gibson, Esq. of Newtown, Montgomeryshire, North Wales.

Marriage
HODGKINS Frederick  30 years
GIBSON Anne  24 years
13 Jan 1857
At Hobart  Reg#180/1857

and a birth

HODGKINS Male - Name Not Recorded
Father Frederick  Mother Ann GIBSON
1 Nov 1857
At Hobart  Reg#928/1857

Is it possible that Sarah died in Tasmania and the event wasn't registered?

Cando


Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Thursday 22 October 15 07:13 BST (UK)
Thank you so much. I suspected the death wasn't registered.
All the information you have found is correct and I did base the dates between the child being born on the Empress Eugenie and the Tasmanian marriage. Now I am wondering what an unmarried 24 year old Welsh girl was doing in Tasmania!!
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Thursday 22 October 15 07:18 BST (UK)
Should also add that I know she landed in Melbourne as she wrote home telling her parents about the north if the baby on board ship.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 07:49 BST (UK)
Margaret there were many more and far younger unmarried girls than Anne GIBSON in the Colonies :)

Have you thought about researching....

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/birth-marriage-death-sea-or-abroad/

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 October 15 10:19 BST (UK)
Hi

Are there any passenger lists for the SS Empress Eugenie

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/shipsthe12th.htm

Margp
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Thursday 22 October 15 13:19 BST (UK)
Have checked all sources I can find and Sarah is not listed. Checked with ancestry who said the regiment would have travelled steerage and there was no compulsion to list steerage, women or children.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 13:49 BST (UK)
Why is Sarah's arrival being questioned.  Didn't she write a letter home?

May I suggest that the barque  EMPRESS EUGENIE transported only the regiment and their families from Cork, Ireland and if a manifest was lodged on arrival it has not survived or may have been too fragile to transcribe to the shipping arrivals at the Public Record Office of Victoria.

Was the person you spoke to familiar with the 1852 Passenger Act regarding transport between British Colonies?  I doubt it.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article38460257

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4799831
The Argus 4 Nov 1854
November 3. - Empress Eugenie, 653 tons, W. H. Nattress, from Cork 30th July, transport No.104.
Passengers - cabin : Lieut. Le Wise, Admiralty Agent, Capt Atkinson, commanding officer, Capt. Vereker, Acting Paymaster, Lieut. J. R. Palmer, M. C. Saunders, Assistant-Surgeon Rogers, W. H. Paul, H. L. Williams, C. M. Harward, Mrs. J. R. Palmer, and Mrs. Vereker ; ten sergeants, one hundred and sixty-seven rank and file, twenty-five women, and thirty-four children.

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 13:59 BST (UK)
Frederick is not listed as being at Eureka however there is a snippet about him

http://www.ballaratgenealogy.org.au/ballarat-history/eureka/item/352-12th-regiment-at-eureka-list-of-soldiers
List of 12th Regiment soldiers, from the Payroll AJCP 3714, who were stationed at Ballarat during Eureka.

Vaughan left Sydney on the 14th October 1864 and returned to England via Victoria with two other soldiers, Sergeant (2001) Frederick Hodgkins and Private (3057) John Barry (PRO3729).

I note that Frederick and Anne had three chn in NSW.

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 October 15 14:07 BST (UK)
Hi Cando

I have been helping Margaret with this, Sarah's arrival is not being questioned, its that there was a son born, George Frederick Hodgkins ,1852, Ham, Surrey, and I think she would like to know if he was with her on the ship, and return to England after she died, we know he  joined the same regiment has his father and lived in England,

Are there any cemetery records that could be checked

Margp 
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 14:31 BST (UK)
None of this is on the board and that makes it difficult for anyone attempting to assist.

There is no record at PROV for the ship's arrival so no manifest survives. 

So a child was born prior to their marriage in 1853.  Was the birth registered?

Quote
Marriages Mar 1853
CHAMBERS    Sarah        Richmond Sry    2a/267   
HODGKINS    Frederick    Richmond Sry    2a/267


Quote
Are there any cemetery records that could be checked

Links to cemeteries in the Resources and Offers Board/Victoria.

Not all the records from the Old Melbourne Cemetery survive.  Only from 1866.   The Melbourne General Cemetery opened in 1853 and Margaret may like to email them with her query.
MGC [at] smct.org.au 

Perhaps she died in Tasmania however if she did her death wasn't registered.

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Thursday 22 October 15 14:37 BST (UK)
I am assuming the next question will be about outgoing passenger lists from NSW.  There are no official lists for the period 1826-98.

Late for me...well past my bedtime. :)

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 October 15 14:48 BST (UK)
No it was a Baptist record

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJRL-RVD

Margp
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Thursday 22 October 15 14:53 BST (UK)
Thank you both. Just heard that the family descending from SarAh's sister Elizabeth may have more evidence of SarAh's death in letters they possess. In her letter home on arrival at Melbourne she speaks of little Freddie  who is George Frederick as she says the birth of the new baby means she now has children (rather than a child)   . George Fred birth is registered under army registration. Cando thank you for the extra info. The reference to Frederick leaving in 1864 was because he was retired unfit to serve through chronic rheumatism. He is retired on pension with a record of exemplary service in 1865 however he and Ann go on to have more children over here. I had no record of the birth of a son prior to their marriage so that is more info gained. Thank you so much. I will look up the links when I have more time tonight
Thank you Margaret for all your help. Will let you both know of anything more I learn once the copy of the additional letters arrive.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: MargP on Thursday 22 October 15 22:33 BST (UK)
Your welcome Margaret

Margp
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Friday 23 October 15 21:56 BST (UK)
Hi Cando.The promised letter has come through and I now have answers. Frederick writes a harrowing letter to Sarah's parents. She died in Melbourne. "On Tuesday 12th December (1854) at 10 minutes past 3pm she breathed her last".
The letter tells of her last days and even details of her grave. The cemetery at Melbourne about 7 miles from Richmond grave number 91 which he said would be marked with a tombstone marking her virtues.
Sadly the baby died a month later.
Fred was quelling the gold mining riots at the time if her death.
Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Saturday 24 October 15 01:44 BST (UK)
Melbourne General Cemetery is not 7 miles from Richmond, more like 3 to 4 miles....perhaps the figure has been mistranscribed.  Certainly took me on a merry chase trying to find another cemetery. :)  Only two main cemeteries in 'Melbourne' in 1854 - the Old Melbourne Cemetery [under the Queen Victoria Market] and the Melbourne General Cemetery at Carlton.

From my resource...

Interred at the Melbourne General Cemetery, Church of England, Section A, Grave Number blank.

HODGKINS
Sacred to the memory of
Sarah
the beloved wife of Color Sergt. Fredk. HODGKINS
12th Regiment
who departed this life on the 12th Dec, 1854 aged 24 years
Much and justly regretted
also
Mary Ann Eugenie
their daughter
who died 13 Jan 1855,
aged 5 months.

The resource was published in 1989.

Perhaps the deaths were recorded by the 12th Regiment.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: margaret h on Saturday 24 October 15 08:02 BST (UK)
Oh Cando..Thank you so much. All I wanted to know is what Fred put on her gravestone and now I do.This has been my first venture with Rorschach..Sorry if I got posts in wrong places but have gained valuable information. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Saturday 24 October 15 08:43 BST (UK)
Margaret you haven't posted in 'wrong' places....I only linked this thread so the kind chatter who has offered to take photos of headstones in Melbourne cemeteries will have the location information. 

I do hope the headstone is still standing or there.  The resource I mentioned was compilied in 1989.  Like all cemeteries, headstones which are a danger to the public are often laid down or removed.  MGC is a large cemetery too.

All the best :)

Cando
Title: Re: Sarah Hodgkins death
Post by: cando on Saturday 24 October 15 08:49 BST (UK)
Church of England  Section A has Reference H 19

http://mgc.smct.org.au/Assets/Files/Melbourne%20Cemetry_V3_DPMG%20-%20FINAL.pdf

Cando